Spring Training Cuts thread

[chitownsportsfan]

That said, Fathom's post made me look harder at his stats and I'm not sure it's worth it at any price more than 2-3 million. He's marginally better than Ishikawa against RHP but probably would be better to save the flexibility in case a real upgrade over Avi presents itself.

[Kalapse]

So they get assets back rather than just the money. Sometimes teams prefer to pay a little freight and get back an A ball reliever or whatever. Teams also put guys on waivers all the time to judge interest and then yank them back if they can't work out a trade.

 

But if they waived him and DFA I'm pretty sure they can't pull him back off.

Revocable waivers are used in August, if Loney were placed on waivers prior to the season beginning it'd be an unconditional release waiver. The Rays will try to work out a trade the next few days, if they can't then they'll designate him for assignment, buying them another 10 days to work out a trade without wasting a roster spot, within the first 7 days of of the DFA he can be placed on waivers, he cannot be pulled back, the claiming team is on the hook for his salary and if he goes unclaimed he becomes a free agent.

[chitownsportsfan]

Revocable waivers are used in August, if Loney were placed on waivers prior to the season beginning it'd be an unconditional release waiver. The Rays will try to work out a trade the next few days, if they can't then they'll designate him for assignment, buying them another 10 days to work out a trade without wasting a roster spot, within the first 7 days of of the DFA he can be placed on waivers, he cannot be pulled back, the claiming team is on the hook for his salary and if he goes unclaimed he becomes a free agent.

 

You are the man! OOTP only takes me so far into the details of the CBA.

[Vance Law]

Only thing Loney provides is he's a first baseman. Outside of that, he does nothing to help this lineup.

.296 batting average with a .340 OBP vs. righties last year. In line with his career averages. Ishikawa can't do that.

[Dick Allen]

.296 batting average with a .340 OBP vs. righties last year. In line with his career averages. Ishikawa can't do that.

Against RHP, he wasn't much better in 2015 than Adam LaRoche.

[BlackSox13]

As greatful as I am of LaRoche's 13M donation towards building a better Sox team without him, that money does not need to be spent right now. At least not on James Loney. I like Loney but for what he would cost in comparison to the marginal upgrade he would provide, it would be a dumb move this late in ST unless the Rays eat a big chunk of that salary. Save the money for future trades in June/July/August that could help the team more. That 13M is not going anywhere.

[Whisox05]

I'd DH him over Avi. He hits righties OK. While his pitches per plate appearance tend to be league normal, he has great career (& recent years) contact rates - out of zone, in zone, all of it.

 

They aren't going to move avi to the bench. They need to see if Avi stance helps him to produce. He's going to get plenty at bats. Don't know why everyone wants to reduce avi time as much as possible right away.

[EvilJester99]

They aren't going to move avi to the bench. They need to see if Avi stance helps him to produce. He's going to get plenty at bats. Don't know why everyone wants to reduce avi time as much as possible right away.

Because Avi is the devil

[Vance Law]

Against RHP, he wasn't much better in 2015 than Adam LaRoche.

 

LaRoche, unfortunately, has retired. We can't get him back. Loney isn't good. But Ishikawa is more not good. I'd rather have David Murphy than either.

[Vance Law]

As greatful as I am of LaRoche's 13M donation towards building a better Sox team without him, that money does not need to be spent right now. At least not on James Loney. I like Loney but for what he would cost in comparison to the marginal upgrade he would provide, it would be a dumb move this late in ST unless the Rays eat a big chunk of that salary. Save the money for future trades in June/July/August that could help the team more. That 13M is not going anywhere.

 

We'd get Loney for nothing. I'd guess less than $2 million.

[BlackSox13]

We'd get Loney for nothing. I'd guess less than $2 million.

And the Sox gain nothing. There's no point to claiming or trading for Loney.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the Sox remain committed to Avi. That means on most days, the lineup will have both Avi and Melky in the lineup which means one of them will be the DH and the other will be the LF. No room for Loney. Sticking with one of Ishikawa or Sands at least gives the Sox some defensive flexibility since both can play 1B and corner OF. Loney is a 1B/DH, that's it.

 

I'd rather see what a 24 years young Avi Garcia has to offer instead of a 31 year old James Loney. At least with Avi there is still some potential upside and untapped power.

 

 

[Vance Law]

One thing to keep in mind is that the Sox remain committed to Avi.

 

I'd rather see what a 24 years young Avi Garcia has to offer instead of a 31 year old James Loney. At least with Avi there is still some potential upside and untapped power.

 

Nope. After 3 straight losing seasons and after Avi's 1000 unimpressive career plate appearances, he should play if and only if he is producing. He doesn't get any more development time on the major league club. If he's hitting and can manage the outfield or can be hidden at DH great. If he can only provide value as a platoon bat, great. If he can't do that send him to AAA and see if he can figure it out. If James Loney or anyone else can hit righties better than Avi, then Avi shouldn't be playing.

[Boopa1219]

With the exception past two years, Loney is a really good defensive player. I would take a chance on him.

[BlackSox13]

Nope. After 3 straight losing seasons and after Avi's 1000 unimpressive career plate appearances, he should play if and only if he is producing. He doesn't get any more development time on the major league club. If he's hitting and can manage the outfield or can be hidden at DH great. If he can only provide value as a platoon bat, great. If he can't do that send him to AAA and see if he can figure it out. If James Loney or anyone else can hit righties better than Avi, then Avi shouldn't be playing.

Like it or not it should be obvious the Sox are going to give Avi another chance. Sometimes it's better to give our own hot garbage another chance instead of trying another teams hots garbage. As badly as I wanted to see Avi replaced or traded this winter, I'd still rather see him get another chance over acquiring Loney.

[LDF]

i have been under the wrong impression of trading and the trading of certain type of draft pick. the compensation draft is a draft pick that can not be traded. however the competitive draft pick A and B can be traded. that is per cba which i found on milb web site this afternoon.

 

so i was wrong in my past ideas, i just saw the chance of getting and rebuilding the org was to enticing. so with that, i am still liking the idea of getting shields, if the padres can sweeten the deal to make the trade possible.

 

again i was wrong.

Edited March 31, 2016 by LDF

[LDF]

Like it or not it should be obvious the Sox are going to give Avi another chance. Sometimes it's better to give our own hot garbage another chance instead of trying another teams hots garbage. As badly as I wanted to see Avi replaced or traded this winter, I'd still rather see him get another chance over acquiring Loney.

 

i agree, the org has a tendency to holding on to players that should have been traded. they, the sox Fo should spare us, the fans of the risk, given time, is this another DV?

 

whether we like it or not, Avi will be the sox starting dh spare of'er.

 

Loney, i do like the left hand hitting player who still can put up some really good stats. he would be a nice option, i hope if he can platoon with Avi. however will the sox FO do it???

 

here is the question, can loney be a better option than anyone the sox have on the roster at this time???

 

 

[Lillian]

Loney has been a very consistently good average and OBP hitter vs. RHP, in his career.

The last 3 years, in the A.L., in over 1000 at bats, he has averaged .300 with an OBP of .350 vs. RHP. Those numbers are right in line with his career stats.

It is also worth noting that he does not strikes out very often, and He's a good defensive first baseman.

Here are the AT BATS, AVERAGE and ON BASE PERCENTAGE STATS, for the last 3 years:

 

2013 395 .299 .352

2014 428 .304 .355

2015 277 .296 .341

 

He will turn 32 in May.

 

The problem is that there is no place for him to play. If an injury happened to Abreu, or one of the outfielders, he would be a decent replacement at 1ST, or DH.

However, barring that scenario, he would be on the bench, as an occasional late inning defensive replacement to spell Abreu.

The team does not have an obvious need for a left handed pinch hitter, as no one is that bad against RHP.

 

 

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

Loney has been a very consistently good average and OBP hitter vs. RHP, in his career.

The last 3 years, in the A.L., in over 1000 at bats, he has averaged .300 with an OBP of .350 vs. RHP. Those numbers are right in line with his career stats.

It is also worth noting that he does not strikes out very often, and He's a good defensive first baseman.

Here are the AT BATS, AVERAGE and ON BASE PERCENTAGE STATS, for the last 3 years:

 

2013 395 .299 .352

2014 428 .304 .355

2015 277 .296 .341

 

He will turn 32 in May.

 

The problem is that there is no place for him to play. If an injury happened to Abreu, or one of the outfielders, he would be a decent replacement at 1ST, or DH.

However, barring that scenario, he would be on the bench, as an occasional late inning defensive replacement to spell Abreu.

The team does not have an obvious need for a left handed pinch hitter, as no one is that bad against RHP.

 

The problem with Loney is not his batting average or his on base percentage, the problem is that what little power the guy ever had is completely gone. His ISO last year was an anemic .076 against RHP. That is trending downward from .147 in 2013 and .103 in 2014. To put that in perspective, slap hitting Juan Pierre's ISO for his career was .066. That is not acceptable from a 1B/DH type. Ishikawa is already on the roster and could put up similar numbers. No reason to go after Loney.

[Eminor3rd]

Loney has been a very consistently good average and OBP hitter vs. RHP, in his career.

The last 3 years, in the A.L., in over 1000 at bats, he has averaged .300 with an OBP of .350 vs. RHP. Those numbers are right in line with his career stats.

It is also worth noting that he does not strikes out very often, and He's a good defensive first baseman.

Here are the AT BATS, AVERAGE and ON BASE PERCENTAGE STATS, for the last 3 years:

 

2013 395 .299 .352

2014 428 .304 .355

2015 277 .296 .341

 

He will turn 32 in May.

 

The problem is that there is no place for him to play. If an injury happened to Abreu, or one of the outfielders, he would be a decent replacement at 1ST, or DH.

However, barring that scenario, he would be on the bench, as an occasional late inning defensive replacement to spell Abreu.

The team does not have an obvious need for a left handed pinch hitter, as no one is that bad against RHP.

 

If we got Loney, it would be to play the exact same role LaRoche would have played -- splitting time at 1B/DH vs RHP. He be expected to get ~450 plate appearances.

 

I don't think they'll get him because I think they want to save their money for something better, most likely down the line.

 

[GoGoSox2k2]

If we got Loney, it would be to play the exact same role LaRoche would have played -- splitting time at 1B/DH vs RHP. He be expected to get ~450 plate appearances.

 

I don't think they'll get him because I think they want to save their money for something better, most likely down the line.

 

 

 

other than the initial speculation tweet from Buster Olney. any other sources/rumors on the Sox having interest

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I would rather have Ishikawa than Loney to be honest.

[ChiSox59]

And the Sox gain nothing. There's no point to claiming or trading for Loney.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the Sox remain committed to Avi. That means on most days, the lineup will have both Avi and Melky in the lineup which means one of them will be the DH and the other will be the LF. No room for Loney. Sticking with one of Ishikawa or Sands at least gives the Sox some defensive flexibility since both can play 1B and corner OF. Loney is a 1B/DH, that's it.

 

I'd rather see what a 24 years young Avi Garcia has to offer instead of a 31 year old James Loney. At least with Avi there is still some potential upside and untapped power.

 

While I am not a big James Loney fan, he is better at baseball than Travis Ishikawa. I'd rather have David Murphy than either, but its not very hard to upgrade on Ishikawa. If Travis breaks camp with the club, I anticipate it won't be long until some other LH bat finds their way to the Sox. If the Sox could get Loney for less than $1.5M, it may be worth the minimal risk. I'd shoot for closer to the minimum.

 

Travis Snider is another idea. No great shakes, but a LH option for the bench. I have to imagine the Sox have been in contact with David Murphy.

Edited March 31, 2016 by ChiSox59

[OmarComing25]

I'd rather have Loney (provided we get him for basically nothing) than Ishikawa, but that's not saying much. His numbers against RHP were very uninspiring in 2015, but they were pretty good in 2014 and 2013 (120 and 122 wRC+), so he at least has more upside than Ishikawa does. Hopefully we can get someone better though.

[Bob Sacamano]

Loney, if released, I'd rather have at league minimum than Ishikawa. Not even really close for me.

Edited March 31, 2016 by soxfan2014

[BlackSox13]

While I am not a big James Loney fan, he is better at baseball than Travis Ishikawa. I'd rather have David Murphy than either, but its not very hard to upgrade on Ishikawa. If Travis breaks camp with the club, I anticipate it won't be long until some other LH bat finds their way to the Sox. If the Sox could get Loney for less than $1.5M, it may be worth the minimal risk. I'd shoot for closer to the minimum.

 

Travis Snider is another idea. No great shakes, but a LH option for the bench. I have to imagine the Sox have been in contact with David Murphy.

I think what we'll see happen is Avi gets his chance and will be re-evaluated when June comes around. If Avi is struggling in June, the Sox start shopping for a LH OF bat. Until then were stuck with the Avi experiment.

 

My hangups with Loney are based on him only being a 1B and his bat is just not impressive. If the Sox were going to carry a five player bench I would be open to the idea of Loney but they are only carrying four on the bench so versatility from the last spot becomes more important, IMHO. Ishikawa/Sands bring the versatility that Loney cannot provide. I just don't see Loney being a significant enough of an upgrade to push Ishikawa/Sands out of the picture. At this point I would rather stick with what the Sox have and see how they look in June.