Adam LaRoche retires

[caulfield12]

http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/robin-ven...o-take-control/

 

Ventura is the one who really needs to respond...interesting take by a sportswriter who has spent nearly 25 years around big league teams in Joe Posnanski.

[LittleHurt05]

So if LaRoche was awesome last year, KW would have been way out of line to make the request?

 

If LaRoche was awesome last year, then his teammates might not have complained to KW.

[LittleHurt05]

If I took a job at a company, and we had a deal that I could work from home a couple of times a week, and then I proceeded to not live up to expectations in my work, then I don't think many people would be on my side if I complained after my employer took away or restricted that privilege. LaRoche didn't come close to living up to expectations, so he has a lot of gall to ignore or disobey a reasonable request from a superior.

 

And rules regarding working from home are as fluid as they get, always changing despite the "agreements" that are made.

[Jake]

I wonder if Chris knows that players complaining and coaches complaining and concern for precedent are not at all mutually exclusive possibilities/explanations.

[Hatchetman]

People went to the Managers bosses, boss, which is why it was handled by him.

 

Then the bosses' boss should have told the Manager to handle the situation and not completely undermine his authority.

[Y2Jimmy0]

This is an excellent take by Barry Rozner: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2016031..._medium=twitter

[iamshack]

Well done Larry!!!!

 

Guys, what does "obfuscating" mean?

 

[southsider2k5]

Then the bosses' boss should have told the Manager to handle the situation and not completely undermine his authority.

 

Uh, if guys are going over his head with a problem, by definition, his authority has already been undermined.

[blackmooncreeping]

Whatever the heck his dad does?

HE can go work at dad's meat packing plant.

[blackmooncreeping]

Avila and Navarro both said they have no idea why anyone would have a problem with Drake and they didn't think any of the players said anything. Looks like that's now 4 players that don't believe it was any player and just KW leaking to the media that it's was the players, coaches, and or the owners.

This just isn't true; multiple media sources have said there were several complaints? You can't just ignore that

[hi8is]

This just isn't true; multiple media sources have said there were several complaints? You can't just ignore that

I have to question the sources of these proported complaints.

[blackmooncreeping]

I have to question the sources of these proported complaints.

Why exactly? Because a handful of players said they didn't see any issues? VIrtually every media source in Chicago, and most outside of it, are reporting the same thing. Kenny botched the handling of it, but there is no way asking Laroche to dial it back was unreasonable.

[LDF]

Why exactly? Because a handful of players said they didn't see any issues? VIrtually every media source in Chicago, and most outside of it, are reporting the same thing. Kenny botched the handling of it, but there is no way asking Laroche to dial it back was unreasonable.

 

for me, i am looking at this in a different light, so to speak.

 

the key is that 2nd or 3rd mtg kw had with AL. when kw flipped out. that language that AL used to make kw so incensed that he would flipped and to tell him that AL son does not have any access, or what ever was said.

 

now the other part is how kw reacted in telling the clubhouse and how he again, flipped. me thinketh it, that kw is not good in confrontation.

 

but the bottom line, the blame for me still falls on the players sale and eaton.

Edited March 20, 2016 by LDF

[SCCWS]

 

How about if KW makes Drake the White Sox batboy. Then Adam can retire, the White Sox get an extra $13 Mil., Drake continues to get the education his parents want and Chris Sale gets to keep his BFF.

[hi8is]

Why exactly? Because a handful of players said they didn't see any issues? VIrtually every media source in Chicago, and most outside of it, are reporting the same thing. Kenny botched the handling of it, but there is no way asking Laroche to dial it back was unreasonable.

Because a wide variety of players have stated no one had an issue... Also because Kenny changed his story. Cardinal rule of calling out a liar... Look for a change in the story.

 

Personally I find it more likely that the "sources" who quote players having an issue most likely to be KW and his pawns.

[jamesdiego]

I certainly believe there were players and coaches who voiced complaints. Mainly because it makes absolutely 100% sense that grown men would feel a little odd in a major league f'n clubhouse where a kid is there all the time. And on the field during training. Not exactly the atmosphere professionals might not want to be in. Sure, some guys damn well liked having a kid around all. the. time. But some players and coaches I would bet did not care one f***ing bit for it.

[hi8is]

I certainly believe there were players and coaches who voiced complaints. Mainly because it makes absolutely 100% sense that grown men would feel a little odd in a major league f'n clubhouse where a kid is there all the time. And on the field during training. Not exactly the atmosphere professionals might not want to be in. Sure, some guys damn well liked having a kid around all. the. time. But some players and coaches I would bet did not care one f***ing bit for it.

Even if that was the case, the time to raise the concern was the offseason and the voice for it sure as he'll isn't KW.

[Thad Bosley]

LaRoche, in addition to being a rather lousy ball player in the twilight of his career, was obviously a very selfish one as well. The idea that he somehow presumed all of his 24 co-workers wanted his brat around every day to the extent Drake was is ludicrous. I don't care what handshake agreement he may or may not have had with management. How about taking into consideration the impact his kid's non-stop presence had on his teammates - the same teammates he just quit on, I might add. LaRoche was only thinking about what was good for LaRoche, and now he is free to do so to his heart's content while not stinking up White Sox baseball in the process. Good riddance.

[Leonard Zelig]

Even if that was the case, the time to raise the concern was the offseason and the voice for it sure as he'll isn't KW.

 

It couldn't happen in the off season because how could the new players even suspect what the situation was. And KW is exactly the person that should do it because that keeps Robin and Hahn out of the mess.

[Texsox]

If Robin Ventura can't establish rules in his own locker room then that says worse things about this manager than I would ever have dreamed of writing.

 

A manager would not be a part of the contract negotiations. It would have been better if Robin was consulted before agreeing to allowing the kid in the club house but I haven't read anywhere that Robin was ever consulted prior to the agreement. Once management made the agreement it places Robin in a position where he really can't address the issue. Imagine in your world that a University president offered you a special consideration but later your department chair said it was going to be modified. Wouldn't you immediately go back to the president who originally agreed? The same thing would apply here. Robin tells Adam to "dial it back", Adam goes directly to Hahn or Williams. The person who made the agreement should be the one to address any changes.

 

What puzzles me is by all accounts Drake is a great kid. Yet, he's on the mound as if nothing changed. It sounds like Adam either didn't counsel him about hanging back or the kid ignored the new rules. I still have a hard time imagining a team agreeing to this. What happens when three or four other players want their kids hanging out? If they want to add a day care fine, but move it away from the rest of the employees.

[BlackSox13]

Guys, what does "obfuscating" mean?

 

Obfuscating: the definition of the 2016 Chicago White Sox front office and player personnel where everyone is telling the truth whilst simultaneously lying through their teeth. Therefore, creating the perfect environment for building a team to be a solid 2016 World Series contender that is centered around the commemoration of their leader and fallen comrade, a 14 year old boy. Hence the term, obfuscating.

 

[caulfield12]

1. Kenny Williams acted unilaterally, over the head of the manager, and Ventura believes Williams is wrong. If this is the case, yes, Ventura needs to turn over some tables. He needs to be kicking and screaming. He needs to make himself heard. There is absolutely no chance for him to succeed as manager of the White Sox if he does not have the authority to run the clubhouse. None. There is absolutely no chance for him to succeed as manager of the White Sox if he feels like his authority is being undermined from above. None.

 

And all this is doubly true if, as everyone seems to suspect, Ventura gave LaRoche his word that he could bring Drake with him all year long. Now, Williams is preventing him from keeping his word to a ball player? Once the manager loses trust, everything is over. So, if Ventura thinks Williams is wrong, he must turn over every table in the White Sox facilities and keep turning them until he gets control of the clubhouse or quits.

 

2. Williams did not act unilaterally (maybe he was speaking directly from the owner?) and Ventura can see the point, can see that maybe Drake LaRoche was around just a bit too much. If this is the case, well, that’s really bad because it means he’s hiding behind Kenny Williams.

 

Best I can tell, these are the two options here — either he agrees or disagrees with Williams — and in either case, Robin Ventura needs to be heard and say something more than just a few careful cliches. He’s the manager here. Yes, it’s true that there are only 30 managerial spots available, and to keep one of those jobs you sometimes have to bite your tongue and take one for the team. But this is not one of those times. If the White Sox aren’t going to let him run his team, then he has already lost the job.

 

http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/robin-ven...o-take-control/

[Texsox]

There is a chance that the only person on the Sox planet that had a problem with the kid being around all the time was KW and that KW took this entirely on his own to address the issue. But that seems highly unlikely to me. Why go looking for problems? There is no benefit for KW. I am 100% convinced someone in the club house, probably players, complained to Robin. Robin says hey, what can I do, I didn't make the agreement. Robin or some players then take it up the chain. Was it 100% among the players, of course not. But how many players would it take before the situation needs to be addressed? One? Five? 24?

 

Then Kenny figures this is easy, Adam said if there ever was a problem he would address it. Again, from KW's perspective it should have been no big deal. To keep things easy in the clubhouse KW doesn't want to name players or coaches so he keeps it vague. You would think the problem would be solved at this point. Adam lives up to his word, the kid hangs back, it blows over a little bit, and life is good. Instead, the kid doesn't change his behavior. Either Adam didn't tell him to, or he ignored his dad, or as we all know can happen at 14, he "forgot" about the new rules. Then Kenny starts yelling about his kid and Adam reacts like a lot of parents and protects his kid from the criticism.

 

Nobody is suddenly a horrible human beings. No one is suddenly incapable of doing their jobs. But spring training is boring and anything unusual makes for great discussions. So we have one of the longest threads in Soxtalk history. All because of timing, the universal feelings of parents, and the worker versus management dichotomy.

[Texsox]

Ventura gave LaRoche his word that he could bring Drake with him all year long.

 

I must have missed this. I keep reading that the front office gave permission. Am I wrong?

[Hatchetman]

Uh, if guys are going over his head with a problem, by definition, his authority has already been undermined.

 

That's not really true, just because some malcontent goes to the big boss doesn't mean the manager is incompetent. Coincidence that Ventura IS incompetent in this scenario.