Adam LaRoche retires

[caulfield12]

Here's the thing...if the White Sox did a better job of drafting and developing players, promoting them together a level at a time and developing that trust/chemistry/camaraderie first at the minor league level, this kind of thing wouldn't be happening. There's no "White Sox Way" because 75-80% of the roster is a mixture of players from different organizations. (Let it be noted that it worked beautifully ONCE, in 2005...but hasn't since.)

 

We have a clear dysfunction at the top with Hahn/KW not being on the same page.

 

We have created such a "relaxed/comfortable/lethargic" clubhouse that it took outsiders to finally break it up...likely in the form of respected vets like Rollins, Frazier, Avila and Austin Jackson.

 

We likely have a split or polarized clubhouse at the moment...not 100% on racial or position player/pitcher lines, but it's clear that KW's gambit could easily backfire and be used as the excuse for not coming out of the gate hot in April.

 

There's an increasing likelihood that Sale will be even more vocal in his criticism of KW (and implicitly JR) if this thing is allowed to fester. KW seems to be "turning the other cheek" and trying to spin it as a positive for the moment, but surely one of the few positives of this week is that he didn't allow his temper to flare out of control as Sale has a tendency to do...that could have been a complete disaster.

Edited March 18, 2016 by caulfield12

[BlackSox13]

This s*** just gets more confusing as more leaks out. KW is arrogant but to come out and change the policy for no reason makes no sense. I can't help but think there had to be some comments made by players directly to KW for something like this to go down.

 

OTOH, supposedly Hahn and RV were fine with Drake being around all the time. So either there were comments made directly to KW or I'm underestimating KW's arrogance.

 

f*** it, how about the Sox part ways with LaRoche and KW...

 

[Dunt]

Are you guys serious? As a 14 year old?

 

I remember going to the Union League Club as a 10-12 year old and having a bunch of old farts actually swimming naked in the pool. That was weird.

 

But honestly, what "message" are you talking about?

 

I don't really care how you were raised. If you don't understand what's wrong with that situation, you need to open your eyes to the world around you.

[caulfield12]

 

Maybe this is a better question for Rock Raines or another "insider."

 

Is it fair to say that LaRoche, Sale, Eaton, Shark (last year), Danks, Duke and perhaps Lawrie are part of one group or clique?

 

Where is Abreu? Is he the leader of the Hispanic players or more of a Konerko/Dye/Thome "lead by example" type?

 

 

Where does Todd Frazier fit in? Rodon? Robertson? Quintana?

 

 

Pretty obviously, there's a new group emerging with Rollins, Avila, Jackson, Navarro...(and god knows about Latos).

 

 

Along with the lethargic/passive clubhouse environment, ONE positive development would be having two veteran catchers in Avila/Navarro who are stronger, more natural leaders than Tyler Flowers. Of course, they have to stay healthy and be productive or they will end up on the outside looking in eventually...

 

 

And why has Rick Hahn been so quiet and "behind the scenes" this week? Deliberate strategy on the part of the front office to deflect all the attention to KW, like Ozzie used to do all the time by creating his firestorms?

[RockRaines]

If Eaton really didn't like the kid he would be the greatest actor of all time.

Tweeting is surely acting

[RockRaines]

Maybe this is a better question for Rock Raines or another "insider."

 

Is it fair to say that LaRoche, Sale, Eaton, Shark (last year), Danks, Duke and perhaps Lawrie are part of one group or clique?

 

Where is Abreu? Is he the leader of the Hispanic players or more of a Konerko/Dye/Thome "lead by example" type?

 

 

Where does Todd Frazier fit in? Rodon? Robertson? Quintana?

 

 

Pretty obviously, there's a new group emerging with Rollins, Avila, Jackson, Navarro...(and god knows about Latos).

 

 

Along with the lethargic/passive clubhouse environment, ONE positive development would be having two veteran catchers in Avila/Navarro who are stronger, more natural leaders than Tyler Flowers. Of course, they have to stay healthy and be productive or they will end up on the outside looking in eventually...

 

 

And why has Rick Hahn been so quiet and "behind the scenes" this week? Deliberate strategy on the part of the front office to deflect all the attention to KW, like Ozzie used to do all the time by creating his firestorms?

 

 

My inside info has been severely limited as far as front office stuff but I still know several players. I've sent out many PMs on this topic. The leadership baton has been taken and run with by several of the new players. The old guard may not be that happy about it but that's reality. This team needed stronger personalities and they got them, and those guys wanted a more "boys club" atmosphere.

 

Personally I waited until this story came out before reached out because I didn't believe it at first. But let's say more than a handful of players don't care that LaRoche is gone. We have a new regime and I believe they (Mgmt) likes it that way.

Edited March 18, 2016 by RockRaines

[caulfield12]

I don't really care how you were raised. If you don't understand what's wrong with that situation, you need to open your eyes to the world around you.

 

 

Do middle school students no longer take showers for gym class or for after-school sports activities?

 

I don't see the big issue with a 14 year old (assuming he's an 8th or 9th grader)...it probably has more to do with LaRoche's overt Christianity and players self-censoring their comments around him, but obviously that happened for roughly 4 or 5 years without any problems in Washington and last year in Chicago.

[iamshack]

I don't really care how you were raised. If you don't understand what's wrong with that situation, you need to open your eyes to the world around you.

Oh, please do explain it to me then. Please explain to me what "message" is being sent when a teenager sees other adults of the same gender in a state of semi-undress as result of them bathing or dressing.

 

Because honestly, I have absolutely no clue what you are referring to.

Edited March 18, 2016 by iamshack

[BigHurt3515]

Are you guys serious? As a 14 year old?

 

I remember going to the Union League Club as a 10-12 year old and having a bunch of old farts actually swimming naked in the pool. That was weird.

 

But honestly, what "message" are you talking about?

 

Hold on, how old are you? lol

[Kalapse]

Whelp, this story has officially jumped the f***ing shark.

[soxfan85]

Do middle school students no longer take showers for gym class or for after-school sports activities?

 

I don't see the big issue with a 14 year old (assuming he's an 8th or 9th grader)...it probably has more to do with LaRoche's overt Christianity and players self-censoring their comments around him, but obviously that happened for roughly 4 or 5 years without any problems in Washington and last year in Chicago.

 

It is just seems very bizarre. And even if people don't think it is bizarre, I would find it hard to believe that every player on that roster would feel comfortable with it. LaRoche has no business putting any of his teammates in an uncomfortable position like that. He gone.

 

[BigHurt3515]

So what about a private health club?

 

Not sure how many young teens are at private health clubs where you have to pay to be a member? And whenever I was that age when we went to work out (at a rec center) somewhere I surely didn't go in the locker room to shower, I tried avoiding going in there to see naked old guys.

[caulfield12]

My inside info has been severely limited as far as front office stuff but I still know several players. I've sent out many PMs on this topic. The leadership baton has been taken and run with by several of the new players. The old guard may not be that happy about it but that's reality. This team needed stronger personalities and they got them, and those guys wanted a more "boys club" atmosphere.

 

Personally I waited until this story came out before reached out because I didn't believe it at first. But let's say more than a handful of players don't care that LaRoche is gone. We have a new regime and I believe they (Mgmt) likes it that way.

 

Thanks.

 

Well, it was (over)due to happen sooner rather than later...and the need was apparent judging by the (collective) level of play since the end of the 2012 season. And even better not to try to make a course correction during the regular season.

 

Might be one of the last positive contributions of KW to this organization if it works. Time will tell. One has the sense that something has to give between Hahn and KW in the next year or two.

 

Of course, winning and making the playoffs takes care of 90% of the problems.

Edited March 18, 2016 by caulfield12

[BigHurt3515]

Do middle school students no longer take showers for gym class or for after-school sports activities?

 

I don't see the big issue with a 14 year old (assuming he's an 8th or 9th grader)...it probably has more to do with LaRoche's overt Christianity and players self-censoring their comments around him, but obviously that happened for roughly 4 or 5 years without any problems in Washington and last year in Chicago.

 

No. I am only 23 and I remember when I had gym in middle school and high school we had the option to shower after gym but hardly ever did someone actually take a shower.

[iamshack]

Hold on, how old are you? lol

39

[BigHurt3515]

39

 

So we are 16 years apart. I would assume things have changed a lot from when you were in middle/high school and I was.

[iamshack]

Not sure how many young teens are at private health clubs where you have to pay to be a member? And whenever I was that age when we went to work out (at a rec center) somewhere I surely didn't go in the locker room to shower, I tried avoiding going in there to see naked old guys.

A public swimming pool?

 

 

[iamshack]

So we are 16 years apart. I would assume things have changed a lot from when you were in middle/high school and I was.

In regards to views on 14 year olds seeing an adult naked?

 

Hah...this is entertaining to me...what is it that I am missing here? What terrible things are happening as a result of men wishing to bathe or change in a locker room?

[Jose Abreu]

Do middle school students no longer take showers for gym class or for after-school sports activities?

My middle school didn't even have showers

[BigHurt3515]

A public swimming pool?

 

A public swimming pool and a private club are two different things in my eyes.

 

 

In regards to views on 14 year olds seeing an adult naked?

 

Hah...this is entertaining to me...what is it that I am missing here? What terrible things are happening as a result of men wishing to bathe or change in a locker room?

 

 

It has nothing to do with men wanting to shower and change in a locker room, it has to do with a young teen being in there when it is happening especially in a high school like you mentioned. Things have just changed. If you were a teacher at a high school would you want to shower in the same locker room as the students are changing in after gym or a sport? No 14 year old teen wants to see a grown man naked especially a teacher they see every day.

Edited March 18, 2016 by BigHurt3515

[iamshack]

A public swimming pool and a private club are two different things in my eyes.

 

 

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with men wanting to shower and change in a locker room, it has to do with a young teen being in there when it is happening especially in a high school like you mentioned. Things have just changed. If you were a teacher at a high school would you want to shower in the same locker room as the students are changing in after gym or a sport? No 14 year old teen wants to see a grown man naked especially a teacher they see every day.

1) But public swimming pools have showers and changing areas where 14 year olds are allowed?

 

2) You aren't in there to see grown men naked. You are in there to shower and get dressed.

 

I'm not sure why you can't be mature enough as a teenager to understand that your teacher or coach also stinks when he sweats, and also has the anatomy of an adult male, and needs to bathe.

 

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me whatever this message is.

Edited March 18, 2016 by iamshack

[RockRaines]

39

You old bastard

[BigHurt3515]

1) But public swimming pools have showers and changing areas where 14 year olds are allowed?

 

2) You aren't in there to see grown men naked. You are in there to shower and get dressed.

 

I'm not sure why you can't be mature enough as a teenage to understand that your teacher or coach also stinks when he sweats, and also has the anatomy of an adult male, and needs to bathe.

 

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me whatever this message is.

 

I didn't realize you changed the area. What about it? Most teenagers probably don't even go into a locker room at a public swimming pool, they come already dressed in swimming suits on and don't shower before or after.

 

Things are just different now then they were 25 years ago, people are a lot more sensitive. I can't imagine many schools still allowing both students and teachers to shower in the same locker room at the same time. But maybe I am wrong

[Dunt]

Oh, please do explain it to me then. Please explain to me what "message" is being sent when a teenager sees other adults of the same gender in a state of semi-undress as result of them bathing or dressing.

 

Because honestly, I have absolutely no clue what you are referring to.

 

I'm seriously astounded you don't see what's inappropriate about this. It's not like this just started, this kid has been around naked, grown ass men his entire childhood and for a young child, that may send mixed signals/messages that makes them think that that is in some way ok. It's not. This is how things such as child rape occur. Not saying that is something that would ever happen in a clubhouse, but that is a really bad precedent to set.

[gosox41]

My inside info has been severely limited as far as front office stuff but I still know several players. I've sent out many PMs on this topic. The leadership baton has been taken and run with by several of the new players. The old guard may not be that happy about it but that's reality. This team needed stronger personalities and they got them, and those guys wanted a more "boys club" atmosphere.

 

Personally I waited until this story came out before reached out because I didn't believe it at first. But let's say more than a handful of players don't care that LaRoche is gone. We have a new regime and I believe they (Mgmt) likes it that way.

 

FWIW, I've heard other people with connections (both known personally to me or in the media) that said the same thing...more then one player went to Sox management abosut this. KW addressed it, and I agree with him 100%. Are the Sox running a day care facility or a baseball team. A couple of things I'd like to bring up:

1. The Sox have stronger personalities in their players that will serve as stronger leaders. Why isn't our manager leading? KW describes him as a "leader of men." Still waiting.

2. To Chris Sale: Shut up and pitch. I assume your little spaz out was due to immaturity. Only in professional sports can players get so upset that their kids can't come to work with them everyday that they have the financial flexibility to retire and know it won't effect their life style one bit. Or only in pro sports can a star employee get away with cussing out his boss in front of other employees. Get off your cloud and wake up to reality.

3. My feeling was that LaRoche was looking for a way out. If not he threw a bigger temper tantrum this a 14 year old. Everything that I heard was that when he was told the second time to bring his kid in less he simply chose to retire, and not talk it out with Kenny. Man up.

4. To the old clubhouse dynamic- with LaRoche and pre-LaRoche--it wasn't working if the goal was to win games. Something needs to be done. They all get their guaranteed money know matter how bad they perform and are pretty much set for life if they're smart enough not to piss your money away. Now how about focusing on more important things, like winning.

5. Way to go Adam. You officially have made it know to baseball that your sole reason for retiring is your son. Sure to you it's the White Sox and their 'archaic' ways of doing things, but seriously deep down your son is watching this and what is he thinking? Whatever it is, it probably isn't helping his emotional growth. Looks to me like you're teaching him one of 3 things:

a. If things don't go you're way blame a third party.

b. Also, if things don't go your way, then go ahead and quit instead of working out out or compromising.

c. That it's OK to act like a primadonna and think the rules don't apply to you.

 

Assuming your son has seen some tutoring or a school when not in the dugout, he'll read the papers and figure all this out.

 

But I do have to thank you, Mr. LaRoche. Your retirement has made the Sox a better team. We'll miss the .207 average with 12 HR's and way too many K's. NOT

 

 

Bob