iamshack Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:31 PM) 1) Yes. There is zero doubt that the catalyst was LaRoche. If your clubhouse personalities are so unstable that small interferences cause huge eruptions like this, it should have been in his calculations before acting. More, it should have been dealt with by the entire organization. 2) That the truth has been changing by the hour for 3 days on a workplace environment issue where nobody was assaulted or killed is an example of gigantic incompetence. KW has already shown ineptitude at communicating clearly, for example last July when he threw Hahn under the bus. The catalyst of this, KW and Laroche in a disagreement that has Laroche quit, crap happens. Isolated from everything, I'm on KW's side. But everything that happens after that is what gets KW fired. He has shown no ability to control the message, his employees, or a friendly media (to this point). That's not a good look, especially 2 weeks before your fans are going to naturally get excited to play baseball. I would either fire Kenny or announce organizational restructuring that handles situations like this in the future. Status quo is not acceptable. An ACTUAL issue that requires talent to control will occur soon, and they are clearly not ready. I think you misunderstood what I was writing. To me, this is a bit of evidence that there was a lot more going on here, and this issue is merely symptomatic of that. a. An out of control clubhouse where players will say and do as they please, instead of what is best for the organization b. A dysfunctional management structure/culture c. Organizational policies and protocols which are either not clear or not enforced d. A lack of trust and respect for other employees, particularly leadership While I am certainly not claiming Kenny is innocent, this strikes me as a complete organizational failure, where the owner, the president, the general manager, the manager, and the players are all complicit. If you want to fire someone just to say you did something, fair enough. But if you truly wanted to fix the root cause, I think you're probably missing the mark by simply firing the President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:39 PM) Seriously what kinda person are you take advantage of that. There no way in hell he should be making the Sox take care of the kid too. They're paying him millions to play baseball. The expense of having his kid around is miniscule compared to his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) So if Laroche was taking Drake with him on the road was he paying for the his tickets on flights and getting his own hotel room. Was Drake eating food from the locker room. I really hope Laroche was paying for that stuff cause if not the Sox did awful alot for his kid to be there all the time Sox don't pay for that. Union dues do. Players pay for clubhouse food, just deducted from their paycheck. They pay a pretty hefty fee too. Get a ton of stuff. Doubt one 14 year old kid is doing damage to that. Have a guy I know who pitches in the majors - filled me in on some of the stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) While I am certainly not claiming Kenny is innocent, this strikes me as a complete organizational failure, where the owner, the president, the general manager, the manager, and the players are all complicit. If you want to fire someone just to say you did something, fair enough. But if you truly wanted to fix the root cause, I think you're probably missing the mark by simply firing the President. If that is the case you fire the guy in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (chw42 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) They're paying him millions to play baseball. The expense of having his kid around is miniscule compared to his contract. Yes but is not sox job to pay for the kid. Then why doesn't ever player bring the kids with them all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 This is where having a strong manager is required and the Sox have possibly the meekest manager in the big leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 07:41 PM) Sox don't pay for that. Union dues do. Players pay for clubhouse food, just deducted from their paycheck. They pay a pretty hefty fee too. Get a ton of stuff. Doubt one 14 year old kid is doing damage to that. Have a guy I know who pitches in the majors - filled me in on some of the stuff. You played in the majors for numerous years and only know one guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:33 PM) Facts: 1. The Sox have made the playoffs once in 10 years, and got trounced in their only appearance. 2. The face of the franchise addressed the media and said the team president flat out lied to them, and wouldn't answer the question of "What do the players think of Kenny Willaims?" Even if you are a Willaims fan, what positive influence does Kenny Willaims bring to the White Sox? I don't understand how he keeps his job. The face of the franchise was just being described as a lunatic about 2 hours ago, and has supposedly attempted to fight other teams by barging into their clubhouse. Because Chris is an incredibly gifted pitcher does not somehow qualify him for speaking for the team or for being in the right on this issue. Now if you want to fire the guy for #1, by all means, do it. But don't do it because of #1 now as a result of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:41 PM) If that is the case you fire the guy in charge. The owner is in charge. And he can't be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 It seems insane to me that KW might have done this without getting on the same page as Hahn and Ventura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 07:45 PM) The owner is in charge. And he can't be fired. Clearly you're not a wrestling fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) It seems insane to me that KW might have done this without getting on the same page as Hahn and Ventura It's Kenny. He knows he's nearly untouchable to JR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) I think you misunderstood what I was writing. To me, this is a bit of evidence that there was a lot more going on here, and this issue is merely symptomatic of that. a. An out of control clubhouse where players will say and do as they please, instead of what is best for the organization b. A dysfunctional management structure/culture c. Organizational policies and protocols which are either not clear or not enforced d. A lack of trust and respect for other employees, particularly leadership While I am certainly not claiming Kenny is innocent, this strikes me as a complete organizational failure, where the owner, the president, the general manager, the manager, and the players are all complicit. If you want to fire someone just to say you did something, fair enough. But if you truly wanted to fix the root cause, I think you're probably missing the mark by simply firing the President. I agree with that. I also think Kenny likes instability in roles because he likes to jump into things and exploit his power that way. Firing president will not solve all of that, but theoretically a pres of operations role that is good should be able to clear that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (chw42 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 08:48 PM) It's Kenny. He knows he's nearly untouchable to JR. I wonder if that's about to change. If he is lying, I can't see how he stays around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) Do you think the Sox will continue their Family Sundays promotions? Maybe not every Sunday. Maybe not half of them. But there is a big space between 0 and 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Good to hear Reinsdorf is actually there today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:45 PM) The owner is in charge. And he can't be fired. Don't remind me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 https://mobile.twitter.com/scottmerkin/stat...916143373012992 LaRoche ain't coming back if he already talked to JR. Also probably means they won't allow kids in clubhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtsoxfan Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Jerry Reinsdorf releases statement on Adam LaRoche situation http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/white-...roche-situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I think KW wanted to change the culture and some of the new guys brought in (Rollins Avila Navarro renteria Jackson) were brought in specifically to change aroubd the clubhouse. Some of those guys probably complained about laroche and drake. KW addressed it. I think the "bigger problem" that Sale is referring to is the "new guard" in the clubhouse. IIRC there were whispers that some of the old guys weren't thrilled with the "new leadership" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 JR's statement is exactly what should have happened on Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 If you watch the video, the bigger issue is they don't trust KW now. Also, after reading LaRoche letter again, it's interesting he left out whether or not he complied to the first request like he said he would if anything came up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) I wonder if that's about to change. If he is lying, I can't see how he stays around. This organization can't function and be successful when it's players do not trust management. IMO KW needs to be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (daa84 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 03:56 PM) I think KW wanted to change the culture and some of the new guys brought in (Rollins Avila Navarro renteria Jackson) were brought in specifically to change aroubd the clubhouse. Some of those guys probably complained about laroche and drake. KW addressed it. I think the "bigger problem" that Sale is referring to is the "new guard" in the clubhouse. IIRC there were whispers that some of the old guys weren't thrilled with the "new leadership" Chris Sale, who wants to win a championship apparently very badly, needs to f***ing realize these guys have won more in their career than himself and Laroche combined. Jimmy Rollins and Alex Avila especially. Those guys could not have been thrilled with what they saw as probably a "country club" atmosphere in the clubhouse and guys descending into cliques. Hate to bring race into it but it does seem like that may have played a roll as well. I have a hard time seeing how any of the Latin guys are anything but amused by this coddling of Laroche and his son. A 14 year old boy, with his own locker, in a MLB clubhouse? I mean Abreu must just be shaking his damn head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) https://mobile.twitter.com/scottmerkin/stat...916143373012992 LaRoche ain't coming back if he already talked to JR. Also probably means they won't allow kids in clubhouse. So now Chris Sale isnt allowed in the clubhouse anymore either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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