Your new Supreme Court nominee is....

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, Y2HH said:

As I said, a discussion should be had that finds a way to alleviate this issue without giving total control over to a couple of major metropolitan areas. Once again, this devolves into another us vs them argument, where one side says, "the current system is perfect because it benefits us, versus the other side saying we should change it to the popular vote because that would benefit us!"

This is just more party line bullshit.

It's like neither can see the potential danger in just doing things that benefit their own party in the short term. They *just* did this same thing when they changed to a simple majority for appointing justices, and then it backfired when the other side used it. Somewhere down the road, I don't know when, but at some point -- something will happen -- an a populous rise will occur that shifts extreme to the other direction in a drastic and potentially dangerous way.

Most of the people in this country are too misinformed or downright stupid to be electing presidents, let alone local officials. They search for the D or R and punch it, knowing NOTHING about the candidate.

No, I have very little faith in people.  

Which party do you think changed it to simple majority for Supreme Court?

[Y2HH]

1 minute ago, Soxbadger said:

Which party do you think changed it to simple majority for Supreme Court?

The republicans first used it for the supreme court, but the precedent was set by Harry Reid for non-supreme justices. Point is, changing things that short-term benefit your own party (currently) does not mean they always will in the future. It's dangerous, especially when 20/20 future sight doesn't exist.

The system was set up to gridlock government when neither side was willing to come to the middle -- and sadly, they're undoing those protections piece by piece so nobody ever has to come to the middle again, and we end up with a far-right or far-left government, of which I cannot agree with either.

[whitesoxfan99]

27 minutes ago, Y2HH said:

That was done by design.

Like I said, I think it's a conversation to be had when it comes to the electoral college, but I wouldn't agree with strictly popular vote for the reasons cited.

Yes I understand that.  My point is it’s ridiculous that people from smaller states are both insanely over represented in the Senate but then also extremely over represented in electing the president.

[Soxbadger]

19 minutes ago, Y2HH said:

The republicans first used it for the supreme court, but the precedent was set by Harry Reid for non-supreme justices. Point is, changing things that short-term benefit your own party (currently) does not mean they always will in the future. It's dangerous, especially when 20/20 future sight doesn't exist.

The system was set up to gridlock government when neither side was willing to come to the middle -- and sadly, they're undoing those protections piece by piece so nobody ever has to come to the middle again, and we end up with a far-right or far-left government, of which I cannot agree with either.

But to be fair, the Democrats did not change the Supreme Court, which is a much more important position than regular federal judges.

That was really damaging to the system and most Republicans are very happy they didnt need to compromise, and are doing everything in their power to tilt the balance to the extreme.

That is why change is necessary because the legislation eroded the checks, so now they cant be trusted. Hence why people should get more of a direct say.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Soxbadger

[Y2HH]

2 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

But to be fair, the Democrats did not change the Supreme Court, which is a much more important position than regular federal judges.

That was really damaging to the system and most Republicans are very happy they didnt need to compromise, and are soing everything in their power to tilt the balance to the extreme.

That is why change is necessary because the legislation eroded the checks, so now they cant be trusted. Hence why people should get more of a direct say.

Depends on the people, sadly. Until we get a far more educated, informed and not misinformed public, I don't want the stupidest amongst us being given such control, and that's exactly what will happen.

Yes, whatever, I'm an elitist.

I'll throw this back to those old -- and often hilarious "despair posters" -- the one about meetings: "Because none of us is as dumb as all of us..."

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

Yes I understand that.  My point is it’s ridiculous that people from smaller states are both insanely over represented in the Senate but then also extremely over represented in electing the president.

You’re missing the main benefit of focusing on the small states instead of those icky urban areas. People of the wrong skin color are also over represented in urban areas. By focusing on the small states for both the Senate and the electoral college, we can make sure that at least extra political power stays in the hands of people who have earned it by their important, white bloodlines. If we are going to say Americans aren’t educated enough, and decide that in response we are going to empower some minority, at least if we minimize the votes of the urban areas the minority we empower is the white one.

[Quin]

Radical idea: Let's assign EC votes by economic output. Make states earn the right to vote!

[Jerksticks]

1 minute ago, Y2HH said:

Depends on the people, sadly. Until we get a far more educated, informed and not misinformed public, I don't want the stupidest amongst us being given such control, and that's exactly what will happen.

Yes, whatever, I'm an elitist.

I'll throw this back to those old -- and often hilarious "despair posters" -- the one about meetings: "Because none of us is as dumb as all of us..."

The problem is that somebody like Ocasio-Cortez becomes one of the most dangerous people in the history of America.   Imagine in 2020, tens of millions of young Americans voting simply for a message of “free college” and “15 dollars”   

 

That one, idiotic vote could undo everything the founding fathers set up.   America would be over.  That’s how scary the young vote is.  It could end everything.  

The electoral college helps insulate against that but not completely.  

[GoSox05]

1 minute ago, Jerksticks said:

The problem is that somebody like Ocasio-Cortez becomes one of the most dangerous people in the history of America.   Imagine in 2020, tens of millions of young Americans voting simply for a message of “free college” and “15 dollars”   

 

That one, idiotic vote could undo everything the founding fathers set up.   America would be over.  That’s how scary the young vote is.  It could end everything.  

The electoral college helps insulate against that but not completely.  

Lmao.  This is great.

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, Y2HH said:

Depends on the people, sadly. Until we get a far more educated, informed and not misinformed public, I don't want the stupidest amongst us being given such control, and that's exactly what will happen.

Yes, whatever, I'm an elitist.

I'll throw this back to those old -- and often hilarious "despair posters" -- the one about meetings: "Because none of us is as dumb as all of us..."

Well this is gonna be a tough bridge to cross then, as I think more democracy is on average better than less (extreme bad example being california's governing via props)

The issue I have with minority government is it creates a perverse view of thinking the government is being more representative when it is responsive to your needs over others needs, instead of requiring that bargaining. Small states think they would not be a part of the bargaining without this extra power and I think there are few examples of this in US history to say that would be the case. I suppose they would bring up the city/downstate relationships but it's quite different.

[Soxbadger]

Just now, Y2HH said:

Depends on the people, sadly. Until we get a far more educated, informed and not misinformed public, I don't want the stupidest amongst us being given such control, and that's exactly what will happen.

Yes, whatever, I'm an elitist.

I'll throw this back to those old -- and often hilarious "despair posters" -- the one about meetings: "Because none of us is as dumb as all of us..."

Do you really believe that the people in congress arent equally misinformed?

Lets be realistic, if you looked at votes by education, one party would win a lot more often. 

Right now we have a less educated minority imposing its will on a more educated majority.

How does that work for you at all?

[Iwritecode]

Taylor Swift convinced a whole lot of people to register to vote.

 

 

[Y2HH]

1 minute ago, Soxbadger said:

Do you really believe that the people in congress arent equally misinformed?

Lets be realistic, if you looked at votes by education, one party would win a lot more often. 

Right now we have a less educated minority imposing its will on a more educated majority.

How does that work for you at all?

Oh, I never said that ... keep in mind these "elected officials" are just people from that same pool of misinformed or even willfully ignorant people I'm talking about. The government is just made up of ordinary people. Some are very intelligent, but others are quite dumb -- I mean, I guess they're motivated enough to put themselves out there and get that job, but motivation and drive is not the same as intelligence in most cases.

Unfortunately for the population, a lot of educated people -- such as quite a few of you here -- would never even consider putting yourselves on the line to get elected to these positions because you know what it'd put your families through.

Tell you what, Soxbadger, if you run for office, I'll vote for you, because I'm confident enough -- even if I don't agree with your politics necessarily -- that you're at least educated and informed enough to do the job.

[pettie4sox]

10 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

The problem is that somebody like Ocasio-Cortez becomes one of the most dangerous people in the history of America.   Imagine in 2020, tens of millions of young Americans voting simply for a message of “free college” and “15 dollars”   

 

That one, idiotic vote could undo everything the founding fathers set up.   America would be over.  That’s how scary the young vote is.  It could end everything.  

The electoral college helps insulate against that but not completely.  

POTY.

[Y2HH]

1 minute ago, Iwritecode said:

Taylor Swift convinced a whole lot of people to register to vote.

 

 

And in an interesting twist of irony...one of the democrats she endorsed is a Kavanaugh backer.

[pettie4sox]

13 minutes ago, GoSox05 said:

Lmao.  This is great.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the different results.  America needs to evolve, it's been a stagnant Neanderthal for a while now.

Edited October 9, 2018 by pettie4sox

[GoSox05]

Just now, pettie4sox said:

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the different results.  America needs to evolve, it's be a stagnant Neanderthal for a while now.

America will be over!  What did it in?  Affordable college and higher wages.

America has a hard time evolving because people treat the founding fathers like gods.  Nothing they did can ever be changed, even when it is archaic.

The founding fathers themselves weren't sure what was going to happen and they knew that things would need to change over time, that is why they made it so things could be added and changed.  Also, they were far from perfect people.

[Y2HH]

1 minute ago, GoSox05 said:

America will be over!  What did it in?  Affordable college and higher wages.

America has a hard time evolving because people treat the founding fathers like gods.  Nothing they did can ever be changed, even when it is archaic.

The founding fathers themselves weren't sure what was going to happen and they knew that things would need to change over time, that is why they made it so things could be added and changed.  Also, they were far from perfect people.

Affordable college doesn't mean dick if you don't educate yourself in something economically useful. I know plenty of people that graduated from college, and they make far less than a few of my friends from high school because I got them involved in my industry.

If you want to make a higher wage, do something useful.

[Soxbadger]

6 minutes ago, Y2HH said:

Oh, I never said that ... keep in mind these "elected officials" are just people from that same pool of misinformed or even willfully ignorant people I'm talking about. The government is just made up of ordinary people. Some are very intelligent, but others are quite dumb -- I mean, I guess they're motivated enough to put themselves out there and get that job, but motivation and drive is not the same as intelligence in most cases.

Unfortunately for the population, a lot of educated people -- such as quite a few of you here -- would never even consider putting yourselves on the line to get elected to these positions because you know what it'd put your families through.

Tell you what, Soxbadger, if you run for office, I'll vote for you, because I'm confident enough -- even if I don't agree with your politics necessarily -- that you're at least educated and informed enough to do the job.

I actually I have been thinking about running for Alderman in my ward. 

And thanks for the vote of confidence!

A lot of the points you make work both ways. Which is why I think there has to be some sort of divestment in power from Congress. They are no longer the adults in the room. They cant be counted on to be reasonable.

America is on a bad path, and people form both parties need to start seeing that. There needs to be more accountability to the people. And yes that does mean some people who are uninformed. But right now many Americans feel that uninformed people are dictating the path of our countries future, and they are frustrated because there is basically nothing that they can do.

My vote is irrelevant. The best I can do is get my opinions and perspective out there, in hopes that someone who has a vote that does matter reads it and changes their mind. That doesnt seem to be a society where I have fair representation. And that needs to change. Im even willing to give smaller states 2 out of 3 (Senate/House), but if you gave the majority the Presidency, it would really start to bring back the balance the US needs.

[GoSox05]

1 minute ago, Y2HH said:

Affordable college doesn't mean dick if you don't educate yourself in something economically useful. I know plenty of people that graduated from college, and they make far less than a few of my friends from high school because I got them involved in my industry.

If you want to make a higher wage, do something useful.

This is getting a little off topic, but I worry about a society that only views things in a positive way if they are "economically useful".

You should go to school for what you are passionate about and what makes you happy.  There will be a use for it somewhere.

[Y2HH]

7 minutes ago, GoSox05 said:

This is getting a little off topic, but I worry about a society that only views things in a positive way if they are "economically useful".

You should go to school for what you are passionate about and what makes you happy.  There will be a use for it somewhere.

I don't quite see it that way, but that's just me.

If you follow that "do what you love" mindset, you should also understand the reality of what that passion pays. You may be passionate about Irish Dance Theory, and if you love it, by all means, if that's what you want to do, then pursue that dream, but do so with the understanding that it also means you're not going to make a lot of money.

My opinion on this? I don't "do what I love", I mean ... I like my job. But it's a job. I don't love it. I do it because they pay me. You know how much I charge to hang out with my friends or family? 0$. Why? Because I actually love doing that. My job, however? The day they stop paying me is the day I stop showing up ... regardless of how much I claim to like or love it...

I do my job to get paid a lot of money so I can take that money and do the things I actually love...

Edited October 9, 2018 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

46 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

The problem is that somebody like Ocasio-Cortez becomes one of the most dangerous people in the history of America.   Imagine in 2020, tens of millions of young Americans voting simply for a message of “free college” and “15 dollars”   

 

That one, idiotic vote could undo everything the founding fathers set up.   America would be over.  That’s how scary the young vote is.  It could end everything.  

The electoral college helps insulate against that but not completely.  

The horror of a living wage and extending free pubic education four more years

 

Truly the greatest sin in American history

[bmags]

13 minutes ago, Y2HH said:

I don't quite see it that way, but that's just me.

If you follow that "do what you love" mindset, you should also understand the reality of what that passion pays. You may be passionate about Irish Dance Theory, and if you love it, by all means, if that's what you want to do, then pursue that dream, but do so with the understanding that it also means you're not going to make a lot of money.

My opinion on this? I don't "do what I love", I mean ... I like my job. But it's a job. I don't love it. I do it because they pay me. You know how much I charge to hang out with my friends or family? 0$. Why? Because I actually love doing that. My job, however? The day they stop paying me is the day I stop showing up ... regardless of how much I claim to like or love it...

I do my job to get paid a lot of money so I can take that money and do the things I actually love...

I feel like this is a common view from STEM majors, but I majored in Journalism, my wife majored in English, we both have technical-ish (or at least, numbers driven) jobs in banking/tech industry, and both of us would say we use our majors every single day.

Now, I wish I would have studied this or that, and known now what I knew then, etc, but when people study things they like the most important thing is they dive in and learn how to work and enjoy that process. Sociology majors leave with great research and stat backgrounds that are very useful in many businesses right now. English majors have great communication and creative thinking minds that can take on different tasks.

The idea that there is a skills mismatch after employment is down to 3.8 and essentially non-existent among college grads is just not backed up by much.

[Y2HH]

5 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

The horror of a living wage and extending free pubic education four more years

 

Truly the greatest sin in American history

Free.

Because all of those professors and administrators are going to teach and run the schools for free, I assume? Oh, and the electric/gas companies that power the schools aren't going to charge anything for this magical free energy to heat/cool the buildings? Oh, and the landscapers and construction workers are going to cut the grass and maintain the buildings for free, too, right?

They can't pay for what's left of our public school system now, so we may as well lop four to six more years of free higher education on top of that!

How are you proposing we pay for this? We're already about 800 billion into deficit spending and counting.

Raising taxes may be a start, but it's just going to scratch the surface. You could cut the military budget by 50% and it still won't make a dent.

Sounds like it's anything but free.

This is why I have a hard time having this conversation -- can we have some proposals that are at least grounded in reality? As things stand, without this stuff being "free", we can't sustain our current budgetary trajectory. With this stuff, we're hitting the accelerator when we see the brick wall up ahead.

Quick, let me take off my seatbelt and disable my airbag while we're at it...

[Iwritecode]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I feel like this is a common view from STEM majors, but I majored in Journalism, my wife majored in English, we both have technical-ish (or at least, numbers driven) jobs in banking/tech industry, and both of us would say we use our majors every single day.

Now, I wish I would have studied this or that, and known now what I knew then, etc, but when people study things they like the most important thing is they dive in and learn how to work and enjoy that process. Sociology majors leave with great research and stat backgrounds that are very useful in many businesses right now. English majors have great communication and creative thinking minds that can take on different tasks.

The idea that there is a skills mismatch after employment is down to 3.8 and essentially non-existent among college grads is just not backed up by much.

I've heard of a lot of people that went to college for one thing, then ended up in a career that's completely different.