CPS Strike

[Jenksismyhero]

Can we just, for once, fire every CPS teacher and start over? I'm so tired of hearing them b**** and whine. They were asked to contribute more to their pensions and health insurance because the state/city can't cover the MASSIVE costs of their already obscene pension plans. Boo f***ing hoo. Grow a pair, take a small hit like the rest of us, and do your f***ing jobs.

 

/rant.

[StrangeSox]

SCORCHING HOT TAKE

[Jenksismyhero]

Am I the only one though? Honestly I never hear of non-CPS employed people that support the union. I don't know why Rahm/Rauner even deal with it. I'm sure they have to legally, but it's not like they'd lose the PR battle if they finally said, enough is enough. It's a s***ty system anyway, starting over isn't going to make it much worse than it is.

[Brian]

I don't know the logistics of this strike but my parents were in the education system and my sister is. You can always tell the people that have no clue what teachers do. Just because they have "Summer's off" they have it easy. Not realizing during school year it's an all day job. Taking work home with them. I barely saw my dad growing up cuz he coached after school. Lots of teachers and administrators are one year long schedules now.

CPS teachers have to be dealing with kids with behavioral issues more than my parents had to. The pensions are for security like anyone having a 401k because they get paid diddly while teaching.

The system is so screwed up, my sister and others are getting out.

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

Am I the only one though? Honestly I never hear of non-CPS employed people that support the union. I don't know why Rahm/Rauner even deal with it. I'm sure they have to legally, but it's not like they'd lose the PR battle if they finally said, enough is enough. It's a s***ty system anyway, starting over isn't going to make it much worse than it is.

 

 

I teach in the suburbs. I will receive a pension. The problem is that as teachers, we contribute every check. We have held up our end of the deal. Illinois decided to spend their contribution on other things and not pay it back. Teachers also don't receive social security. That's the rub. Everyone can complain about the pension costs being too high but if they take the pension away, they'll have to give teachers social security. And they don't have that money either.

[pettie4sox]

Jenks I bet you're sending your kid to private school, am I right?

[StrangeSox]

Am I the only one though? Honestly I never hear of non-CPS employed people that support the union. I don't know why Rahm/Rauner even deal with it. I'm sure they have to legally, but it's not like they'd lose the PR battle if they finally said, enough is enough. It's a s***ty system anyway, starting over isn't going to make it much worse than it is.

Rahm and Rauner already seem to be losing every other battle, and if she doesn't come down with cancer shortly before the campaign there's a good chance the head of the ctu beats Rahm in the last primary.

 

Plus yeah unilaterally disbanding a huge union firing everyone and breaking tens of thousands of contractual lvl obligations isn't actually legal, thankfully.

[Jenksismyhero]

I teach in the suburbs. I will receive a pension. The problem is that as teachers, we contribute every check. We have held up our end of the deal. Illinois decided to spend their contribution on other things and not pay it back. Teachers also don't receive social security. That's the rub. Everyone can complain about the pension costs being too high but if they take the pension away, they'll have to give teachers social security. And they don't have that money either.

 

But it's my understanding that the state/city aren't asking the teachers to give up their pensions, they're asking teachers to contribute a little more to help cover the costs, like 3-4% more. I agree that it sucks that the state/city is poorly run (insert "it's your fault for continuing to elect the same democratic machine into office for the last 40 years"), but it is what it is. Other people are also losing out on money, are being taxed/fee'd more, and/or have to contribute more of their paycheck for their retirement. Teachers, especially the CPS union, seems to think they're the only ones.

 

Also, this is a few years old, but CPS teachers get paid a lot, even before you take into consideration the benefits.

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/how...-teachers-make/

 

And who cares if they don't get SS? If I even get SS it's going to be way less than the 80% or whatever of your last salary for life.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Jenks I bet you're sending your kid to private school, am I right?

 

Nope, but I picked a good school district that isn't run by a powerful and debilitating union.

[Y2Jimmy0]

But it's my understanding that the state/city aren't asking the teachers to give up their pensions, they're asking teachers to contribute a little more to help cover the costs, like 3-4% more. I agree that it sucks that the state/city is poorly run (insert "it's your fault for continuing to elect the same democratic machine into office for the last 40 years"), but it is what it is. Other people are also losing out on money, are being taxed/fee'd more, and/or have to contribute more of their paycheck for their retirement. Teachers, especially the CPS union, seems to think they're the only ones.

 

Also, this is a few years old, but CPS teachers get paid a lot, even before you take into consideration the benefits.

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/how...-teachers-make/

 

And who cares if they don't get SS? If I even get SS it's going to be way less than the 80% or whatever of your last salary for life.

 

 

Fair enough. I don't complain about my job though because I teach in the SW Suburbs and my job is awesome.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't know the logistics of this strike but my parents were in the education system and my sister is. You can always tell the people that have no clue what teachers do. Just because they have "Summer's off" they have it easy. Not realizing during school year it's an all day job. Taking work home with them. I barely saw my dad growing up cuz he coached after school. Lots of teachers and administrators are one year long schedules now.

CPS teachers have to be dealing with kids with behavioral issues more than my parents had to. The pensions are for security like anyone having a 401k because they get paid diddly while teaching.

The system is so screwed up, my sister and others are getting out.

I agree with most everything you say about the teachers, but I will point out, most people who have 401K's fully contribute to those 401k's with a very small amount (potentially) being contributed by others. That said, I value teachers and education and think they should be paid fair middle class wages, however, I do not support the union and think the union causes more harm than good to our overall education system.

[Chisoxfn]

I will point out, if this is more the city the state that screwed up with money that was supposed to be set aside, than I have a different opinion. Reality is, the rules around pensions was so brutal for so long that nothing was properly funded, etc, people could use freely pull funds from them for "rainy days"...whomever got on board with how it was managed were complete and utter buffoons. And it clearly couldn't have been a minority.

 

Had people just used straight up normal fiscal logic and sound financial wisdom (who developed and created the plans), we wouldn't have these situations. There should be some room for variability dependent on long-term returns, but ultimately, you should have been conservative from the start so that the only potential impacts, by and large, would be potential upside (vs. downside).

[bmags]

One thing I don't understand:

 

Didn't the city have all of our services sign 6 year contracts in 2010 to cover the city through the olympic bid? How come the teachers are the only ones renegotiating every year.

[StrangeSox]

I don't know what it was prior to that, but the previous contract ran from 2012 until 2015, and they're typically four year contracts.

 

edit looks like the previous one was 2007-2012.

Edited April 4, 2016 by StrangeSox

[Texsox]

I'm certain most people wouldn't mind a 3 or 4% pay cut in their net pay. Hey. instead of a raise, how about we cut your salary for 2017! YEAH! Come on no one wants their take home pay cut. It doesn't matter what you earn.

 

And those of us that fully contributed to SS enjoy receiving less than half of our SS because we are on a pension.

[southsider2k5]

I'm certain most people wouldn't mind a 3 or 4% pay cut in their net pay. Hey. instead of a raise, how about we cut your salary for 2017! YEAH! Come on no one wants their take home pay cut. It doesn't matter what you earn.

 

And those of us that fully contributed to SS enjoy receiving less than half of our SS because we are on a pension.

 

Sounds like someone is feeling the Bern.

[Texsox]

Sounds like someone is feeling the Bern.

??

[pettie4sox]

??

 

Handouts and cut pay aka taxed more.

[caulfield12]

Well, otoh, those teachers' pensions are much cushier than SS, by far...whatever the formula is, 60% of your five highest salary years, available when your age and years of service equal 75 (which might not be a 100% benefit if you start teaching later or retire early) or you've taught for at least 30 years.

 

At any rate, there's no doubt that all the state/public pensions are going to be coming in for haircuts at some point in the near future...how "fair" that is depends on your belief in unions and in general, protection/s for workers vs. the "greed" of higher level management.

[caulfield12]

I agree with most everything you say about the teachers, but I will point out, most people who have 401K's fully contribute to those 401k's with a very small amount (potentially) being contributed by others. That said, I value teachers and education and think they should be paid fair middle class wages, however, I do not support the union and think the union causes more harm than good to our overall education system.

 

 

So what is your solution for recognizing and rewarding the best teachers?

 

Because if you're going to cut job security/tenure and ask teachers to contribute more to their retirement, you need to provide some positive incentives as well.

 

I always hear that charter schools are the magic bullet solution, and 10-15% of them work really well...but there are quite a few that are actually worse and the majority are average or below, depending on the financial resources and motivation for starting the school (if board members/founders are doing it more for their own enrichment, it usually doesn't end up a pretty picture.)

 

If you start paying teachers based on the students' performance on standardized tests, then you are going to force them all to teach to the test in order to keep their jobs and/or you're going to lose some of the very best teachers out there who can make significant progress with the lowest level students. Even the worst teachers can't stop especially talented and motivated students from excelling, but the oldest/tenured teachers are often the ones who get the best classes/assignments/students, which often ends up burning out the newest teachers when they have to deal with the worst conditions in terms of student behavior/discipline/attitude.

 

At any rate, great or good teaching is very subjective and hard to quantify...especially when results aren't easily corrected for comparison's sake when looking at the respective academic level of the students when beginning a year compared to where they finish...how much progress they make, and the different degrees of difficulty for fostering progress from the worst students compared to coasting along on the coattails of the best/highest performing ones.

[RockRaines]

It's pretty easy to fix CPS actually but nobody wants to think about it. Raise taxes in Chicago. The rest of us pay a pretty penny where we live for good schools. My taxes in Chicago were 25% of what they are in a good school district. You want great schools? You have to pay.

[Texsox]

I think the last two posts are really good. I've been teaching now for 8 years after almost 30 years in business management. Recognizing, evaluating, and incentivising teachers may be the biggest challenge I have seen. As was mentioned if you want your best teachers where they can do the most good, they will be with the most difficult to teach population. But what yardstick do you use to evaluate them? The gains achieved in their classroom will not be apparent for a year or more down the road. I spend a fair amount of time teaching kids how to learn, how to study, how to manage their time, etc. That won't show up until they are in college. (I teach mostly juniors and seniors).

 

I went from teaching at a Title One school with a sizable migrant population, mostly English language learners, being raised by one parent who was probably working two jobs and barely making by to an above average economical population with a much larger percentage of two parent families. Somewhere on that drive, based on student performances, I became a much better teacher! The best answer I have for evaluating teachers doesn't work in today's climate, because it is subjective not objective. Hire good supervisors and have them evaluate and trust them to do their jobs. Again, not perfect by a long shot but better than any other method I"ve heard. I have a student that has been arrested three times this school year. Are you really going to evaluate me on how well this kid does on a test? I think I am doing a great job just getting him to my class everyday five minutes late.

 

And the money situation. Yes, you have to pay for good stuff and teaching kids has gotten more expensive. If you want them job, career, college, ready they need the same tools that they will be using in their jobs, careers, and college. Teachers, like everybody else, gravitate towards the best positions. For teachers the salary is just one part but it is important. Technology, benefits, security (physical and economic), support, all drive the best teachers.

 

 

[Texsox]

Finally, let's look at the scope of what we are trying to accomplish with the schools. Lately the social emotional character development of kids is being thrusted on the schools. http://www.casel.org/ We aren't really into taking anything out of the school day, but we keep adding. Does society really want me to be responsible for the emotional development of a kid I see 48 minutes a day? How am I going to have any meaningful impact on the social development of a kid who goes home to a dysfunctional family? When I was at my last school 15% of the students had a parent who had been in jail or prison, close to 50% had a family member or close friend in jail. And I am going to be judged on that child's character? I take seriously the fact that I may be the best role model that student sees each day and I do my best to help guide my students. They know when I'm talking to them like a dad and appreciate that. I would rather throw that in for free than be expected to and evaluated on how well the student's turn out.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_emotional_learning

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/it...earning_why_now

 

 

[ptatc]

But it's my understanding that the state/city aren't asking the teachers to give up their pensions, they're asking teachers to contribute a little more to help cover the costs, like 3-4% more. I agree that it sucks that the state/city is poorly run (insert "it's your fault for continuing to elect the same democratic machine into office for the last 40 years"), but it is what it is. Other people are also losing out on money, are being taxed/fee'd more, and/or have to contribute more of their paycheck for their retirement. Teachers, especially the CPS union, seems to think they're the only ones.

 

Also, this is a few years old, but CPS teachers get paid a lot, even before you take into consideration the benefits.

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/how...-teachers-make/

 

And who cares if they don't get SS? If I even get SS it's going to be way less than the 80% or whatever of your last salary for life.

The issues with CPS is that the city is responsible for the city's payment into the pension AND the teacher's payment into the pension. The teacher's in CPS do not pay into the pension system. The city wants them to pay their portion. This makes sense except it will essentially be an 8% cut to their pay. This is tough for anyone.

 

Being part of the state system the idea of the union is a dilemma. On one hand the pension system is out dated compared to the public sector retirement system. However, in the public sector raises were commonplace and there is no cap on your retirement if invested well. I have been in the system for 20 years. In 9 of those years I did not receive a raise and most of the ones I received were either 1 or 1.5%. The pension somewhat makes up for that.

[Texsox]

At the end of the day you add up what you earn plus benefits. If I was earning 8% more and paying into the pension, no problem. If you pay me less and make those payments, that's fine also. I'll pay 100% of my health plan, but the salary better be higher.