Internal alternatives to Avisail Garcia

[LDF]

Groupthink in midseason form, I see.

 

The Sox have had a solid payroll for years. 3 playoff appearances in 15 years with that payroll and after inheriting a division winning team with a top farm is pretty poor performance. JR isn't cheap...he's just ridiculously tolerant of non-performing employees.

 

The good news is that the farm system is churning out some good players. The bad news is that the braintrust doesn't seem compelled to take advantage of it.

 

well, at this time, most are not ready to performed ... unless you are referring to use as a trade pkg. with that said, i am wondering if hahn did try, how much are the other teams asking for a trade.

[LDF]

How many more "proven veterans" will be the obvious solutions?

Kenny Williams has tried this approach. And it fails repeatedly. And Cargo, as do most Kenny Williams targets, have massive, glaring warning flags all around them.

with the system being what it has been for how long?? the most obvious answer is to get those fa's or trade for that proven player to help this core.

 

this core is really good, adding to it will only strengthen the club.

[southsider2k5]

Groupthink in midseason form, I see.

 

The Sox have had a solid payroll for years. 3 playoff appearances in 15 years with that payroll and after inheriting a division winning team with a top farm is pretty poor performance. JR isn't cheap...he's just ridiculously tolerant of non-performing employees.

 

The good news is that the farm system is churning out some good players. The bad news is that the braintrust doesn't seem compelled to take advantage of it.

 

 

Apparently the name calling in lieu of an actual argument is in midseason form as well.

 

It is difficult to talk about being tolerant of the players in the SLU when over half of them are new to the team this year. (catchers, Lawrie, Rollins, Frazier, Jackson)

[elrockinMT]

I can do without the name calling too. Make your argument and move on. Just because someone else doesn't agree with your statement doesn't justify some of the ridiculousness we see posted.

 

Personally I think it's too early to get down on any player on this team. We have a 5-2 record and we are already calling for heads to roll. I believe Garcia will be just fine as the DH and filling in on occasion in the OF

Edited April 13, 2016 by elrockinMT

[VAfan]

As much as everyone wants to wail on Avisail, I think you have to take his slow start in context of how other players on the team are hitting.

 

Garcia's OPS of .530 is actually AHEAD of Brett Lawrie .516 and Jimmy Rollins .505, and part time guys Navarro and Shuck, and he's not far behind Alex Avila.

 

Only 2 hitters are excelling for the Sox -- Eaton and Abreu. EVERYONE ELSE is below where we would hope they will be on the season.

[Black_Jack29]

I can do without the name calling too. Make your argument and move on. Just because someone else doesn't agree with your statement doesn't justify some of the ridiculousness we see posted.

 

Personally I think it's too early to get down on any player on this team. We have a 5-2 record and we are already calling for heads to roll. I believe Garcia will be just fine as the DH and filling in on occasion in the OF

 

Yep

 

[Ducksnort]

As much as everyone wants to wail on Avisail, I think you have to take his slow start in context of how other players on the team are hitting.

 

Garcia's OPS of .530 is actually AHEAD of Brett Lawrie .516 and Jimmy Rollins .505, and part time guys Navarro and Shuck, and he's not far behind Alex Avila.

 

Only 2 hitters are excelling for the Sox -- Eaton and Abreu. EVERYONE ELSE is below where we would hope they will be on the season.

Yeah...the main reason we have been winning these games is because of our pitching, and these teams aren't very good (MIN, OAK). I'm expecting a sweep today, if not I'll take the series win. I'm expecting a series win versus Tampa, and we will see how they fair when the Angels come to town after the TB series.

[LDF]

As much as everyone wants to wail on Avisail, I think you have to take his slow start in context of how other players on the team are hitting.

 

Garcia's OPS of .530 is actually AHEAD of Brett Lawrie .516 and Jimmy Rollins .505, and part time guys Navarro and Shuck, and he's not far behind Alex Avila.

 

Only 2 hitters are excelling for the Sox -- Eaton and Abreu. EVERYONE ELSE is below where we would hope they will be on the season.

 

while you do make a great point,

 

the team could use some little tweaking... the problem is, the beginning of the season is not the right time, but all this, the FO should have known. this is a total lack of foresight. then again, maybe they were hoping for a reclamation project to step it up. either way, this is something they will need to think about come late may, early june.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah...the main reason we have been winning these games is because of our pitching, and these teams aren't very good (MIN, OAK). I'm expecting a sweep today, if not I'll take the series win. I'm expecting a series win versus Tampa, and we will see how they fair when the Angels come to town after the TB series.

 

Don't discount the differences in the team defense so far. I know it is the eye test, but I see a whole lot less balls getting in for hits this year.

[Eminor3rd]

As much as everyone wants to wail on Avisail, I think you have to take his slow start in context of how other players on the team are hitting.

 

Garcia's OPS of .530 is actually AHEAD of Brett Lawrie .516 and Jimmy Rollins .505, and part time guys Navarro and Shuck, and he's not far behind Alex Avila.

 

Only 2 hitters are excelling for the Sox -- Eaton and Abreu. EVERYONE ELSE is below where we would hope they will be on the season.

 

The problem with Garcia isn't so much the slow start to the season as much as it is the slow start to his entire career.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Eminor3rd

[lasttriptotulsa]

The problem with Garcia isn't so much the slow start to the season as much as it is the slow start to his entire career.

 

Let's not pretend that Avi hasn't shown flashes in the past to show that maybe we shouldn't write him off at 24 years old. I think people forget how young he still is. He also had a fairly major injury that really hampered his development. From the time the Sox acquired him until his injury he had a .298/.332/.450 slash with 162 game averages of 23 HRs and 81 RBIs over roughly 200 PAs as a 22 year old. Sure he had a bad year last year but I'm not ready to write him off. Last year everyone thought Trayce Thompson was going to be our savior. Apparently everyone forgets that TT is older than Avi and put up an OPS that was 200 points less than what Avi did in AAA.

[Eminor3rd]

Let's not pretend that Avi hasn't shown flashes in the past to show that maybe we shouldn't write him off at 24 years old. I think people forget how young he still is. He also had a fairly major injury that really hampered his development. From the time the Sox acquired him until his injury he had a .298/.332/.450 slash with 162 game averages of 23 HRs and 81 RBIs over roughly 200 PAs as a 22 year old. Sure he had a bad year last year but I'm not ready to write him off. Last year everyone thought Trayce Thompson was going to be our savior. Apparently everyone forgets that TT is older than Avi and put up an OPS that was 200 points less than what Avi did in AAA.

 

TT is a plus defender and baserunner. That cherry-picked slash line doesn't float when it's attached to one of the worst corner OF defenders in the majors. I really don't know that he HAS shown flashes of anything. He's had a good game here and there, sure, but there's been no significant stretch of time where he's been even above replacement level. I get that he's athletic and has upside -- we all do -- but the reason this thread was started isn't because of a bad 8-game stretch, it's because of a bad 250-game stretch.

[Y2Jimmy0]

TT is a plus defender and baserunner. That cherry-picked slash line doesn't float when it's attached to one of the worst corner OF defenders in the majors. I really don't know that he HAS shown flashes of anything. He's had a good game here and there, sure, but there's been no significant stretch of time where he's been even above replacement level. I get that he's athletic and has upside -- we all do -- but the reason this thread was started isn't because of a bad 8-game stretch, it's because of a bad 250-game stretch.

 

 

Yeah I agree with this. He has no redeeming qualities. He's a horrible defender and he doesn't hit enough to DH. He's one of the 5 worst players in all of baseball. I don't expect the experiment to last long honestly.

[LDF]

Yeah I agree with this. He has no redeeming qualities. He's a horrible defender and he doesn't hit enough to DH. He's one of the 5 worst players in all of baseball. I don't expect the experiment to last long honestly.

 

and i will play devil advocate, "and as long as the ownership decides to acknowledge it, nothing will ever get down,"

[shysocks]

Let's not pretend that Avi hasn't shown flashes in the past to show that maybe we shouldn't write him off at 24 years old. I think people forget how young he still is. He also had a fairly major injury that really hampered his development. From the time the Sox acquired him until his injury he had a .298/.332/.450 slash with 162 game averages of 23 HRs and 81 RBIs over roughly 200 PAs as a 22 year old. Sure he had a bad year last year but I'm not ready to write him off. Last year everyone thought Trayce Thompson was going to be our savior. Apparently everyone forgets that TT is older than Avi and put up an OPS that was 200 points less than what Avi did in AAA.

Trayce Thompson is completely beside the point, but he posted a higher walk rate during his career with the Sox than any single month of Avi's, except the one where he played 8 games before falling down and hurting himself.

 

Again, to repeat, the injury that hampered Avi's development happened because he is such a clumsy fielder that he hurt himself.

 

During that flashy .298/.332/.450 stretch, he had a .357 BABIP, a 5.6 K/BB rate, and a 0.1 WAR, because - once more - he is a very bad fielder, and a stupid baserunner to boot.

 

Nobody forgets that he's young, it's the first excuse people make for him. We're also aware of just how far he has to go to be good. If that slash line is the best we can hope for from Avisail Garcia as a hitter, then what are we holding out for exactly? What has he done to make you believe he can sustain hitting like that? In what part of his MLB performance do you see hope? Or was it his ranking as a top-80 prospect in one publication one time that gives you faith?

 

Like seriously, if he was on any other team all this time, nobody would think s*** of him. He'd be just another terrible baseball player. Look at this list. Look at WAR and plate appearances. Very few people in baseball have been as consistently bad as him. What are we holding out for here, I'm genuinely confused.

 

He just isn't good. There are better hills to die on than this.

[bear_brian]

I have tried to defend Avi in previous posts, but in watching him now - with his new stance - I see very little difference in his seeming ignorance of situations, of what a pitcher has done to the previous hitter, of pitch selection, etc. It seems that what we should have done was to dump Avi for a bag of balls, signed Loney and let Fields and Loney platoon in that DH spot. Too late for that now.

[LittleHurt05]

Cross David Murphy off the list, the winless Twins signed him and sent him to AAA.

[Black_Jack29]

Yeah I agree with this. He has no redeeming qualities. He's a horrible defender and he doesn't hit enough to DH. He's one of the 5 worst players in all of baseball. I don't expect the experiment to last long honestly.

 

If the Sox agreed with this, he wouldn't be in the lineup five days a week. Ishikawa or Davidson would be on the 25-man roster instead.

 

I agree that Avi needs to take a big step forward this year, and that's what the Sox are giving him the opportunity to do. If he doesn't show them something this year, he'll probably be dealt for an inconsequential player in the offseason. But I have no problem with the Sox giving a 24-year-old more time to prove himself, particularly when their options are limited.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I have tried to defend Avi in previous posts, but in watching him now - with his new stance - I see very little difference in his seeming ignorance of situations, of what a pitcher has done to the previous hitter, of pitch selection, etc. It seems that what we should have done was to dump Avi for a bag of balls, signed Loney and let Fields and Loney platoon in that DH spot. Too late for that now.

Daniel Fields? Or did you mean Sands?

[Chicago White Sox]

If the Sox agreed with this, he wouldn't be in the lineup five days a week. Ishikawa or Davidson would be on the 25-man roster instead.

 

I agree that Avi needs to take a big step forward this year, and that's what the Sox are giving him the opportunity to do. If he doesn't show them something this year, he'll probably be dealt for an inconsequential player in the offseason. But I have no problem with the Sox giving a 24-year-old more time to prove himself, particularly when their options are limited.

That's not true at all. Davidson has done nothing to deserve a major league opportunity and Ishikawa is simply not a good baseball player. Avi is a better alternative at DH to both of those guys for the time being. Having said that, he doesn't deserve much of a rope. A couple more weeks and we need to start getting serious about a replacement and unfortunately that guy is not in the organization at the moment.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Chicago White Sox

[LDF]

If the Sox agreed with this, he wouldn't be in the lineup five days a week. Ishikawa or Davidson would be on the 25-man roster instead.

 

I agree that Avi needs to take a big step forward this year, and that's what the Sox are giving him the opportunity to do. If he doesn't show them something this year, he'll probably be dealt for an inconsequential player in the offseason. But I have no problem with the Sox giving a 24-year-old more time to prove himself, particularly when their options are limited.

 

but i am not advocating moving him now, b/c i assume they will not get anything viable to replace him. but going into june and he is still struggling, this FO really need to acknowlege that there is other interest that are at stack, higher priorities are in play.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Cross David Murphy off the list, the winless Twins signed him and sent him to AAA.

Disappointing

[Black_Jack29]

That's not true at all. Davidson has done nothing to deserve a major league opportunity and Ishikawa is simply not a good baseball player. Avi is a better alternative at DH to both of those guys for the time being. Having said that, he doesn't deserve much of a rope. A couple more weeks and we need to start getting serious about a replacement and unfortunately that guy is not in the organization at the moment.

 

So you're giving a 24-year-old exactly one month of regular-season ABs in cold weather to improve over a disappointing season? That's insane.

 

The trade deadline is much more realistic.

 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Cross David Murphy off the list, the winless Twins signed him and sent him to AAA.

If his asking price was that low, why the f*** did the Sox not sign him?

[Kyyle23]

and i will play devil advocate, "and as long as the ownership decides to acknowledge it, nothing will ever get down,"

 

lets not play devils advocate because this is nonsense