Internal alternatives to Avisail Garcia

[OmarComing25]

Then, AustinIllini, why are you so frustrated when Melky is batting but not frustrated when Frazier/Rollins bats? What stat are you using that makes them better than Melky so far?

 

OmarComing25, the reason I used BA is because I assumed that's what AustinIllini was using, but I guess he wasn't.

Despite a solid OBP of .345 and average of .269 so far, Melky's OPS is just .614, because he has yet to hit for any power. Frazier on the other hand has an OPS of .706, his OBP and AVG are ugly right now but that's mostly due to his unlucky .182 BABIP in a short sample size, despite hitting a bunch of line drives (25% LD rate). I think Melky will hit for more power and I think Frazier will have more batted balls fall in for hits. But it's just 7 games. Should the Angels be worried about Trout (.217) or the Braves be worried about Freeman (.111)?

[Black_Jack29]

He's only being mentioned because Avi is that bad. You might think it's laughable but he's likely an upgrade (however slight it is) over Garcia. DH is a big hole right now.

 

Avi's track record certainly suggests that, but we're only seven games into the season and it's certainly possible that Avi could be a .730-ish OPS hitter this year. That's obviously not optimal for a DH, but not terrible for a young player who's still developing and isn't taking up much payroll.

 

The best-case scenario would be Avi improving over the next three months and the Sox landing a left-handed bat at the trade deadline. The only problem there is that the Sox don't have much left to trade (outside of Anderson or Fulmer, who are probably untouchable).

 

[Bananarchy]

Then, AustinIllini, why are you so frustrated when Melky is batting but not frustrated when Frazier/Rollins bats? What stat are you using that makes them better than Melky so far?

 

OmarComing25, the reason I used BA is because I assumed that's what AustinIllini was using, but I guess he wasn't.

Who is talking about Rollins? No one is talking about Rollins. He has his own thread and I have said I would replace him.

 

That's NOT the point. We aren't talking about Jimmy Rollins.

[hi8is]

Call me in four more weeks.

[SoxSteve]

Call me in four more weeks.

Trade for Voglelbach and be done with it. Can help just facing righties this year and then full time DH next year. Left handed bat that could be had without raiding our minor leagues and without sacrificing our defense. It's right there for the taking. Cubs will trade him soon so it might as well be us. No brainer in my book

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Trade for Voglelbach and be done with it. Can help just facing righties this year and then full time DH next year. Left handed bat that could be had without raiding our minor leagues and without sacrificing our defense. It's right there for the taking. Cubs will trade him soon so it might as well be us. No brainer in my book

Is he even MLB ready yet? I thought I remembered people here saying he was only in AA.

[BlackSox13]

Is he even MLB ready yet? I thought I remembered people here saying he was only in AA.

Nope, not ready yet. Vogelbach just began his first season in AAA and his power has yet to come around. He needs more development time. I'd certainly like to have him in the Sox organization but he wouldn't be able to fill an immediate need.

 

For those interested...

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register...id=vogelb000dan

[LDF]

Nope, not ready yet. Vogelbach just began his first season in AAA and his power has yet to come around. He needs more development time. I'd certainly like to have him in the Sox organization but he wouldn't be able to fill an immediate need.

 

For those interested...

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register...id=vogelb000dan

 

while you do make a great point, getting someone for this season, well it is not going to happen. i think the sox should do what they can to invest in a young talent, like him, for next season and on.

 

they need to really think of fixing those next seasons, while at the same time, doing minor little tweaks to continue strengthening the main core.

 

i just hope they think there job is done and will not do anything, in otherwords, just going thru to the motions and reap the rewards of the success, this team, this yr, and the success it will or may bring in.

 

constantly improving the system, with major moves in the beginning, paying what is necessary in the front end, will pay much more dividends in the backend. that is the essential elements of successful org.

[GreenSox]

Sox dispatched several young players over the last two years, who are far outperforming the proven veterans they were traded for. I see no reason to trade for prospects from another organization, when the Sox can't properly evaluate their own. They aren't very good at evaluating the veterans either. The best choice is to just keep calling players up and see who sticks, recognizing that the evaluators judged a .900 OPS from a young player as fourth outfielder quality.

 

That said, the team will contend if the bullpen holds up. They are relying on four guys and that eventually will have to be broadened for the pitching to be good enough.

Edited April 13, 2016 by GreenSox

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Sox dispatched several young players over the last two years, who are far outperforming the proven veterans they were traded for. I see no reason to trade for prospects from another organization, when the Sox can't properly evaluate their own. They arent very good at evaluating the veterans either. The best choice is to just keep calling players up and see who sticks, recognizing that the evaluators judged a .900 OPS from a young player as fourth outfielder quality.

 

That said, the team will contend if the bullpen holds up. They are relying on four guys and that eventually will have to be broadened for the pitching to be good enough.

If it was up to you, you'd have 9 youngsters making the minimum salary in the big league lineup instead of the team that the Sox have now.

 

It makes no sense, unless you want to be in an never-ending rebuild.

[LDF]

Sox dispatched several young players over the last two years, who are far outperforming the proven veterans they were traded for. I see no reason to trade for prospects from another organization, when the Sox can't properly evaluate their own. They aren't very good at evaluating the veterans either. The best choice is to just keep calling players up and see who sticks, recognizing that the evaluators judged a .900 OPS from a young player as fourth outfielder quality.

 

That said, the team will contend if the bullpen holds up. They are relying on four guys and that eventually will have to be broadened for the pitching to be good enough.

 

with your example, i will not debate.

 

all i am saying, there will come a time, when the sox are in a solid position, to go all in. pay the cost, to put this team there. what i am also saying is do not over pay as well.

 

the easiest cost to do is the money..... for most owners, they will spend that... but i tend to forget that we are talking about this owners group.

[LDF]

Sox dispatched several young players over the last two years, who are far outperforming the proven veterans they were traded for. I see no reason to trade for prospects from another organization, when the Sox can't properly evaluate their own. They aren't very good at evaluating the veterans either. The best choice is to just keep calling players up and see who sticks, recognizing that the evaluators judged a .900 OPS from a young player as fourth outfielder quality.

 

That said, the team will contend if the bullpen holds up. They are relying on four guys and that eventually will have to be broadened for the pitching to be good enough.

 

also, ref the bold, while that was true in the past, i like what i am seeing in the FO now. will they be 100% successful in all their moves, no. the only reason it show more now, b/c the system is in such a state, that everything gets magnified.

[BlackSox13]

while you do make a great point, getting someone for this season, well it is not going to happen. i think the sox should do what they can to invest in a young talent, like him, for next season and on.

 

they need to really think of fixing those next seasons, while at the same time, doing minor little tweaks to continue strengthening the main core.

 

i just hope they think there job is done and will not do anything, in otherwords, just going thru to the motions and reap the rewards of the success, this team, this yr, and the success it will or may bring in.

 

constantly improving the system, with major moves in the beginning, paying what is necessary in the front end, will pay much more dividends in the backend. that is the essential elements of successful org.

I agree and am all for building the farm and would love to have Vogelbach in the system for 2017 and beyond. I was just responding to the idea of trading for Vogelbach to fill the 1B/DH void this year, which he is not ready for. The Sox need to look elsewhere for that solution.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The White Sox are in 1st place. I also don't believe that they'll remain in 1st place with one of the 5 worst players in baseball as the primary DH. I think they know this though. Travis Ishikawa is bad. Garcia is too though and having Sands and Garcia on the roster is pointless. Sands should receive at-bats vs LHP but that's also the only time that Garcia should play. David Murphy is available and looking for work and would be a better bench option than Sands, Garcia, or Shuck. I think Garcia will get replaced because they tried to replace him all offseason.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Sox dispatched several young players over the last two years, who are far outperforming the proven veterans they were traded for. I see no reason to trade for prospects from another organization, when the Sox can't properly evaluate their own. They aren't very good at evaluating the veterans either. The best choice is to just keep calling players up and see who sticks, recognizing that the evaluators judged a .900 OPS from a young player as fourth outfielder quality.

 

That said, the team will contend if the bullpen holds up. They are relying on four guys and that eventually will have to be broadened for the pitching to be good enough.

 

You really think a player that couldn't manage a .750 OPS in AAA at the age of 24 is going to be a .900 OPS player in the majors. Come on.

[LDF]

I agree and am all for building the farm and would love to have Vogelbach in the system for 2017 and beyond. I was just responding to the idea of trading for Vogelbach to fill the 1B/DH void this year, which he is not ready for. The Sox need to look elsewhere for that solution.

 

no offense, but i never thought of what you said as an end all kind of move for this yr. plus, i think you are smart enuf to realize that. i am in agreement of continuing to make little moves to help this yr, while making major move for all those next yrs....

 

what i am seeing with the sox org is exciting with an exciting future.

[OmarComing25]

If it was up to you, you'd have 9 youngsters making the minimum salary in the big league lineup instead of the team that the Sox have now.

 

It makes no sense, unless you want to be in an never-ending rebuild.

His dream team is 9 mediocre prospects who had middling minor league numbers. Then he gives them each 5000 PA because a handful of players across the league in the past 10 years have had random, unforeseen breakouts so that will surely happen with these guys, if you only give them enough time. But if a breakout does happen to one of these players, you have to trade him, because he's now become a "hero", and those are bad.

Edited April 13, 2016 by OmarComing25

[LDF]

The White Sox are in 1st place. I also don't believe that they'll remain in 1st place with one of the 5 worst players in baseball as the primary DH. I think they know this though. Travis Ishikawa is bad. Garcia is too though and having Sands and Garcia on the roster is pointless. Sands should receive at-bats vs LHP but that's also the only time that Garcia should play. David Murphy is available and looking for work and would be a better bench option than Sands, Garcia, or Shuck. I think Garcia will get replaced because they tried to replace him all offseason.

 

as i started off yesterday, i agree with what you are saying. i am hoping that the FO can do something. but no matter what, the owners makes the final judgement on any moves. so i just hope hahn can convince the owners to do that move. even if it getting david murph.

 

there is no way the sox will swing to make a major move, now, that was in the off season. but any improvements now will help, instead of what the sox have now.

 

but i have to keep remindiing myself, it is only april.

[LDF]

His dream team is 9 mediocre prospects who had middling minor league numbers. Then he gives them each 5000 PA because a handful of players across the league in the past 10 years have had random, unforeseen breakouts so that will surely happen with these guys, if you only give them enough time.

 

harsh.... but i was going to say something like that on the reclamation projects that the sox are will continue to do, b/c they will not spend for those last pieces.

[Kyyle23]

His dream team is 9 mediocre prospects who had middling minor league numbers. Then he gives them each 5000 PA because a handful of players across the league in the past 10 years have had random, unforeseen breakouts so that will surely happen with these guys, if you only give them enough time. But if a breakout does happen to one of these players, you have to trade him, because he's now become a "hero", and those are bad.

 

*STANDING OVATION*

[southsider2k5]

Sox dispatched several young players over the last two years, who are far outperforming the proven veterans they were traded for. I see no reason to trade for prospects from another organization, when the Sox can't properly evaluate their own. They aren't very good at evaluating the veterans either. The best choice is to just keep calling players up and see who sticks, recognizing that the evaluators judged a .900 OPS from a young player as fourth outfielder quality.

 

That said, the team will contend if the bullpen holds up. They are relying on four guys and that eventually will have to be broadened for the pitching to be good enough.

 

Are you talking about Thompson? Are you honestly telling me that you expect him to sustain a fluke first week in the majors into a career? All you have to do is look at his August numbers and his September numbers to understand that we aren't talking about sustainability. In fact his September .732 OPS falls right in line with his AAA career average OPS of .735. In fact his career high for ANY year in the minors was .809. That is purebread lunacy to think he is a .900 OPS player.

[ChiSox59]

Are you talking about Thompson? Are you honestly telling me that you expect him to sustain a fluke first week in the majors into a career? All you have to do is look at his August numbers and his September numbers to understand that we aren't talking about sustainability. In fact his September .732 OPS falls right in line with his AAA career average OPS of .735. In fact his career high for ANY year in the minors was .809. That is purebread lunacy to think he is a .900 OPS player.

 

I think his lunacy has been well-established.

[Chisoxfn]

Are you talking about Thompson? Are you honestly telling me that you expect him to sustain a fluke first week in the majors into a career? All you have to do is look at his August numbers and his September numbers to understand that we aren't talking about sustainability. In fact his September .732 OPS falls right in line with his AAA career average OPS of .735. In fact his career high for ANY year in the minors was .809. That is purebread lunacy to think he is a .900 OPS player.

This is a really good post. I would argue he is one of those players who could outproduce slightly from an offensive position (vs. his minor league numbers) given his tools. That said, if Thompson actually posts a .730-.750 OPS while playing plus defense in center, I'd call that a really good player. I don't know whether he will do that or not, but I talked to a scout at spring training and he had nothing but nice things to say about Trayce and his view was that Trayce was going to be a solid starter. That said, Sox really liked Trayce...they weren't dying to get rid of him, but they had a massive hole at 3B and hand to find someway to address it if they intended to contend.

[Bob Sacamano]

Call me in four more weeks.

 

Agree. The internal options aren't good, no one better is really available yet. Unless we overpay, we're not getting a big bat until June/July.

[southsider2k5]

This is a really good post. I would argue he is one of those players who could outproduce slightly from an offensive position (vs. his minor league numbers) given his tools. That said, if Thompson actually posts a .730-.750 OPS while playing plus defense in center, I'd call that a really good player. I don't know whether he will do that or not, but I talked to a scout at spring training and he had nothing but nice things to say about Trayce and his view was that Trayce was going to be a solid starter. That said, Sox really liked Trayce...they weren't dying to get rid of him, but they had a massive hole at 3B and hand to find someway to address it if they intended to contend.

 

I have no problem with someone saying that they can live with realistic offensive numbers from Thompson when you factor in his defense. Even if someone wanted to make the case that he could maybe push .800 eventually, I would say that is pretty optimistic, but not crazy.

 

I have a problem with the idea that someone Thompson is going to put up at OPS at the major league level that is about what Jose Abreu put up over his two year years in the majors averaged out.

 

Finally my personal opinion is that the Sox might have sold high on Thompson, and the fact they used him to get Todd Frazier to fill one of their worst positions in 2015 is a MUCH bigger help to this team than Thompson would have been, especially when you factor in that they brought in Austin Jackson who will probably put up similar defensive chops, plus a more proven bat, anyway.