Frazier's struggles

[ronkark]

Been holding off on raising this but I can't be the only one who is having LaRoche/Dunn/Thome flashbacks given Frazier's early struggles I can't keep it in anymore. He's batting .178 and that includes today's gift popup hit. 10K's in 45 at bats on pace for over 200.

 

No he's not Dunn or LaRoche. But LaRoche was coming off a great first half, bad second half season and so is Todd. Also he's adjusting to AL, which the other two struggled with.

 

I'm not overly confident he'll hit even .240 this year. And that will kill this team. Really really really hope it picks up soon.

 

the offense has been hidden by stellar pitching but Todd, Abreu with 12 K's in 36 at bats, Rollins, Jackson, Avi Ugh, Avila, Navarro, Shuck. We can have 4 guys struggle. Not 8. Sooner rather than later please!

[michelangelosmonkey]

Been holding off on raising this but I can't be the only one who is having LaRoche/Dunn/Thome flashbacks given Frazier's early struggles I can't keep it in anymore. He's batting .178 and that includes today's gift popup hit. 10K's in 45 at bats on pace for over 200.

 

No he's not Dunn or LaRoche. But LaRoche was coming off a great first half, bad second half season and so is Todd. Also he's adjusting to AL, which the other two struggled with.

 

I'm not overly confident he'll hit even .240 this year. And that will kill this team. Really really really hope it picks up soon.

 

the offense has been hidden by stellar pitching but Todd, Abreu with 12 K's in 36 at bats, Rollins, Jackson, Avi Ugh, Avila, Navarro, Shuck. We can have 4 guys struggle. Not 8. Sooner rather than later please!

 

It's the NFL equivalent of mid third quarter of the first game...and Matt Forte has only 40 yards rushing and a 3.2 yards per carry average...and you are panicking. Enjoy first place...enjoy the best record in the AL...and patience.

 

 

[oldsox]

I agree with Ron on this one. NFL comparisons don't work. "Middle of first quarter......"?? Come on. Against whom? A JUCO team?

 

Face it, Frazier does not (yet) look good at the plate. He has been a .265ish hitter with power and good defense in the NL. He doesn't figure to hit that in AL. He'll prob end up in the .220- .235 range with power and good defense. He is not an ideal #4 hitter, but there is not a solid alternative.

[Texsox]

The past decade has left some scar tissue from big trades and moves. I'll toss in Billy Botch as well. Good, great guys who came to the Sox and ended their carers and not in a good way.

[Dick Allen]

Despite the team being 8-3 it is pretty obvious they are no more,than a 65-70 win team. Just from what I hav read here, there are a lot of problems.

 

Eaton, Lawrie clubhouse cancers

Avila, Fraizer, Cabrera, Rollins washed up

The league has figured out Abreu

Avi is one of the worst players in baseball

Jerry Sands serves no purpose

They have Danks in the rotation and Petricka, Duke, Putnam in the bullpen

You know it is just a matter of time with Latos

Even Chris Sale is too much of a hot head and should go away.

Finally they are managed by a stooge.

8-3 with 9 games in the road is OK, but despite all these horrible players and manager and coaches, it clearly should be better. The fans deserve better.

[Texsox]

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Despite the team being 8-3 it is pretty obvious they are no more,than a 65-70 win team. Just from what I hav read here, there are a lot of problems.

 

Eaton, Lawrie clubhouse cancers

Avila, Fraizer, Cabrera, Rollins washed up

The league has figured out Abreu

Avi is one of the worst players in baseball

Jerry Sands serves no purpose

They have Danks in the rotation and Petricka, Duke, Putnam in the bullpen

You know it is just a matter of time with Latos

Even Chris Sale is too much of a hot head and should go away.

Finally they are managed by a stooge.

8-3 with 9 games in the road is OK, but despite all these horrible players and manager and coaches, it clearly should be better. The fans deserve better.

 

I don't think it's people think we deserve a record better than 8-3, but just that when it comes to facing good teams we may not sustain and hold onto a lot of these 1 run, low-scoring wins we've had.

[Dick Allen]

I don't think it's people think we deserve a record better than 8-3, but just that when it comes to facing good teams we may not sustain and hold onto a lot of these 1 run, low-scoring wins we've had.

If people really think Frazier is going to hit .178 their opinions aren't worth much. The fact is this team is winning games despite not hitting much. The bats will come around. It isn't the best offense in the league, but it isn't the worst. They have had limited production from almost everyone except Eaton and Melky and it was only a few days ago someone was pissed off Melky batted second. So far this season, Hawk's phrase don't tell me what you hit, tell me when you hit it has held true for this team. I will take the 8-3, knowing not only will the offense including Frazier improve, they will make an addition eventually.

[Lillian]

Wouldn't you love to know how management really feels about this team? They can't be naive enough to be optimistic and swayed by the early wins.

Don't you suspect that Hahn knows this offense is not well enough constructed to be a serious contender? The question is, how in the world are they gong

fix it, at this point?

[Dick Allen]

Wouldn't you love to know how management really feels about this team? They can't be naive enough to be optimistic and swayed by the early wins.

Don't you suspect that Hahn knows this offense is not well enough constructed to be a serious contender? The question is, how in the world are they gong

fix it, at this point?

Hahn knows they are screwed. He knows White Sox fans are way too smart to buy tickets to see a team that wins.

 

 

Why is it anything positive is always something that can't be sustained, and anything negative is just how things are no matter the sample size?

Edited April 17, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Lillian]

Hahn knows they are screwed. He knows White Sox fans are way too smart to buy tickets to see a team that wins.

 

 

Why is it anything positive is always something that can't be sustained, and anything negative is just how things are no matter the sample size?

 

I'm curious, what do project for the season totals from Frazier, Lawrie and Avi?

 

[Dick Allen]

I'm curious, what do project for the season totals from Frazier, Lawrie and Avi?

Probably close to their career numbers. 2005 was a benchmark year. We have seen numerous posts about that offense being balanced etc. just remember that team won 15 games scoring 2 runs or less. So far this year, the team has 1 win scoring 2 runs or less.

 

It just fascinates me people can't enjoy 8-3 in first place best start in 34 years , despite 9 of those games being on the road.

[JoshPR]

Despite the team being 8-3 it is pretty obvious they are no more,than a 65-70 win team. Just from what I hav read here, there are a lot of problems.

 

Eaton, Lawrie clubhouse cancers

Avila, Fraizer, Cabrera, Rollins washed up

The league has figured out Abreu

Avi is one of the worst players in baseball

Jerry Sands serves no purpose

They have Danks in the rotation and Petricka, Duke, Putnam in the bullpen

You know it is just a matter of time with Latos

Even Chris Sale is too much of a hot head and should go away.

Finally they are managed by a stooge.

8-3 with 9 games in the road is OK, but despite all these horrible players and manager and coaches, it clearly should be better. The fans deserve better.

LOL good one

[SCCWS]

Hahn knows they are screwed. He knows White Sox fans are way too smart to buy tickets to see a team that wins.

 

 

Why is it anything positive is always something that can't be sustained, and anything negative is just how things are no matter the sample size?

 

 

Fans who make decisions on players after a few weeks in April are just as bad as those who do the same after a month of ST. Eaton and Melky are not going to hit .330 and Frazier and Avi are not going to hit .170 for the year. Some players traditionally don't hit in early spring so small samplings are useless.

Then there are those who see 8-3 and are already planning their vacation schedule to attend World Series games. The record is great but the majority of games are against what will probably be the 3 last place finishers in each AL division. The positive so far is the Sox are 8-3 ( with mostly road games) and not 3-8. The question is what will happen in the next 11 games which will be mostly at home but against a little better competition.

[Chicago White Sox]

Hahn knows they are screwed. He knows White Sox fans are way too smart to buy tickets to see a team that wins.

 

 

Why is it anything positive is always something that can't be sustained, and anything negative is just how things are no matter the sample size?

The offense is going to get better, but it still looks like it will be a problem. And even if the pitching staff doesn't regress, which is basically impossible, we're not going to stay this lucky. A winning record does not prevent you from acknowledging flaws with the team and if you're Rick Hahn you need to act on them as quickly as possible.

[Dick Allen]

The offense is going to get better, but it still looks like it will be a problem. And even if the pitching staff doesn't regress, which is basically impossible, we're not going to stay this lucky. A winning record does not prevent you from acknowledging flaws with the team and if you're Rick Hahn you need to act on them as quickly as possible.

Every team is flawed. Reading this board most of the team is flawed. They really would need a new roster, a new coaching staff, and a new manager. It is just not realistic to have the greatest pitching staff in baseball by far, the greatest offense in baseball by far, the greatest coaches, and the best manager all at the same time. That seems to be the requirement with some. Winning games hitting what they are hitting, to me is a positive. I don't think Rodon and Q and Sale are suddenly going to give up 5 runs a game because they are playing the Angels or Blue Jays. The offense has to find a way to consistently score 4 or 5 runs. If that happens, we won't have the Caulfield return with 10 or 20 doom and gloom posts after a loss.

 

Before Lawrie got a couple of hits last night, the Sox had 2 regulars hitting over .250, yet were in first place. They only have 4 regulars with an OBP over .231. That is not sustainable no matter who you play.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Dick Allen

[reiks12]

Despite the team being 8-3 it is pretty obvious they are no more,than a 65-70 win team. Just from what I hav read here, there are a lot of problems.

 

Eaton, Lawrie clubhouse cancers

Avila, Fraizer, Cabrera, Rollins washed up

The league has figured out Abreu

Avi is one of the worst players in baseball

Jerry Sands serves no purpose

They have Danks in the rotation and Petricka, Duke, Putnam in the bullpen

You know it is just a matter of time with Latos

Even Chris Sale is too much of a hot head and should go away.

Finally they are managed by a stooge.

8-3 with 9 games in the road is OK, but despite all these horrible players and manager and coaches, it clearly should be better. The fans deserve better.

 

The only one overreacting in this thread is you

[Lillian]

The offense is going to get better, but it still looks like it will be a problem. And even if the pitching staff doesn't regress, which is basically impossible, we're not going to stay this lucky. A winning record does not prevent you from acknowledging flaws with the team and if you're Rick Hahn you need to act on them as quickly as possible.

 

My sentiments, exactly. Thank you.

 

[SCCWS]

Every team is flawed. Reading this board most of the team is flawed. They really would need a new roster, a new coaching staff, and a new manager. It is just not realistic to have the greatest pitching staff in baseball by far, the greatest offense in baseball by far, the greatest coaches, and the best manager all at the same time. That seems to be the requirement with some. Winning games hitting what they are hitting, to me is a positive. I don't think Rodon and Q and Sale are suddenly going to give up 5 runs a game because they are playing the Angels or Blue Jays. The offense has to find a way to consistently score 4 or 5 runs. If that happens, we won't have the Caulfield return with 10 or 20 doom and gloom posts after a loss.

 

Before Lawrie got a couple of hits last night, the Sox had 2 regulars hitting over .250, yet were in first place. They only have 4 regulars with an OBP over .231. That is not sustainable no matter who you play.

 

 

I( am very happy w the 8-3. My biggest concern with this roster is the depth. If we get to June and need to add a SP or a left-handed bat, I am sure Hahn can find one. Not a #2-3 starter and not a stud lefty but acceptable upgrades. My bigger concern is a major injury. I am not convinced we have a ML ready player in Charlotte or on the bench that is blocked from playing because of talent. An injury to many of our starters would force Hahn to go out and trade/buy at a disadvantage.

 

We saw the collision in Tampa Friday night and how easy it is to lose players. If, for example, one of our 3 outfielders gets hurt for a month, I think there is a major drop-off in talent. Same with 1st and 3rd. I hope we don't have to rely on a starter from Charlotte as well. I put all 5 in the same category as Danks. Hopefully Charlotte will develop a few players ready by late summer and maybe Fulmer blossoms, but let's hope we don't get any DL trips for a while.

[Dick Allen]

I( am very happy w the 8-3. My biggest concern with this roster is the depth. If we get to June and need to add a SP or a left-handed bat, I am sure Hahn can find one. Not a #2-3 starter and not a stud lefty but acceptable upgrades. My bigger concern is a major injury. I am not convinced we have a ML ready player in Charlotte or on the bench that is blocked from playing because of talent. An injury to many of our starters would force Hahn to go out and trade/buy at a disadvantage.

 

We saw the collision in Tampa Friday night and how easy it is to lose players. If, for example, one of our 3 outfielders gets hurt for a month, I think there is a major drop-off in talent. Same with 1st and 3rd. I hope we don't have to rely on a starter from Charlotte as well. I put all 5 in the same category as Danks. Hopefully Charlotte will develop a few players ready by late summer and maybe Fulmer blossoms, but let's hope we don't get any DL trips for a while.

If one of Eaton, Abreu or Frazier go down, they most likely are screwed. Same with Sale, Q or Rodon.

 

I just don't see any reason to panic offensively. One starter, Eaton, has an OPS greater than his career mark. Everyone else, including Melky, is below, many hundreds of points below. There is zero reason to think that will continue an entire season.

[Thad Bosley]

Probably close to their career numbers. 2005 was a benchmark year. We have seen numerous posts about that offense being balanced etc. just remember that team won 15 games scoring 2 runs or less. So far this year, the team has 1 win scoring 2 runs or less.

 

It just fascinates me people can't enjoy 8-3 in first place best start in 34 years , despite 9 of those games being on the road.

I don't think there's a Sox fan alive who hasn't enjoyed this first place start. We're winning for the first time in a very long time, and the experience is quite refreshing. I think the point some are trying to put forward in this thread is the sustainability of the winning given the continuation of the poor offense we saw all of last year. We were dead last in offense last year, and now early on we find ourselves third to last.

 

It should get better as the season moves on, but when you acknowledge that the only real upgrade in the offense over the winter was Frazier, and to a lesser extent Frazier, it's fair to question whether the offense as currently constructed will be good enough for the long haul.

[southsider2k5]

Instead of stressing about what is going to go wrong, people could just enjoy what is going right.

[SCCWS]

If one of Eaton, Abreu or Frazier go down, they most likely are screwed. Same with Sale, Q or Rodon.

 

I just don't see any reason to panic offensively. One starter, Eaton, has an OPS greater than his career mark. Everyone else, including Melky, is below, many hundreds of points below. There is zero reason to think that will continue an entire season.

 

Agree. But also if Melky or Jackson for an extended period. I think the improved outfield defense has been a factor in the start. If we had to play Shuck or Avi everyday for a month I would be concerned offensively/defensively. I still think we are worse than last year at catcher ( you disagreed at end of ST) but what happens if one them goes down and the other has to play extended time. I do think we could survive ( SS/2B) w Saladino an/or Sanchez filling in.

 

[Lillian]

Instead of stressing about what is going to go wrong, people could just enjoy what is going right.

 

Some of us are not stressing over "what is going to go wrong," but rather over what has gone wrong, for quite a while now. I remember all too well the many games last year, in which Sale and Quintana pitched great, but the offense couldn't score enough to get them a win. The winning record aside, we are just wondering if the front office has sufficiently upgraded this offense enough to reverse that frustrating trend.

 

Of course, the players who are struggling are not likely to do this poorly all season. The question is how much better will they do. What do you expect to get from all of the new guys on the roster? Do you think that Lawrie and Frazier will improve on their career numbers? I certainly hope that we can look forward to better than their

combined career .315 OBP, which I pointed out in a previous post.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Lillian

[ron883]

Despite the team being 8-3 it is pretty obvious they are no more,than a 65-70 win team. Just from what I hav read here, there are a lot of problems.

 

Eaton, Lawrie clubhouse cancers

Avila, Fraizer, Cabrera, Rollins washed up

The league has figured out Abreu

Avi is one of the worst players in baseball

Jerry Sands serves no purpose

They have Danks in the rotation and Petricka, Duke, Putnam in the bullpen

You know it is just a matter of time with Latos

Even Chris Sale is too much of a hot head and should go away.

Finally they are managed by a stooge.

8-3 with 9 games in the road is OK, but despite all these horrible players and manager and coaches, it clearly should be better. The fans deserve better.

Does it get old being so f***ing negative? Complete overreaction by you.