The Bathroom Dilemma

[southsider2k5]

The federal government is setting letters to all public schools in the US with guidelines on how to treat transgender students.

[Kyyle23]

The federal government is setting letters to all public schools in the US with guidelines on how to treat transgender students.

 

shun them and pepper spray them, so says greg775 personal hero, the Governor of NC

[caulfield12]

And to think, one of those election years, didn't Obama win North Carolina or come very close to turning it...2008?

Edited May 13, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Wouldn't people have been "safer" if Dennis Hastert used the women's room ?

[RockRaines]

Yet, for years and years people try. You can't wake someone who is pretending to be asleep.

 

Greg is the straw that stirs the filibuster. He intuitively knows what opinions will keep things going, grabs that side, and fires away. If we didn't already have him we would need to hire someone to do that.

Hes not pretending dude.

[Jenksismyhero]

I cannot believe this country, and specifically the federal government, is wasting this much time, effort, money and attention on this issue.

 

 

[Texsox]

I cannot believe this country, and specifically the federal government, is wasting this much time, effort, money and attention on this issue.

I agree. But the government has a duty to the citizens to take action on things we find important. We demand that government listens to us. I wish I could type that in green. But politicians see what a hot button issue it is and emotion decides elections.

[southsider2k5]

I cannot believe this country, and specifically the federal government, is wasting this much time, effort, money and attention on this issue.

 

Kinda like RFRA.

[Dick Allen]

I would bet there are exact zero transgendered people that went through all they have to go through just for access to the other bathroom so they can maybe catch a peek or the like. It really is stupid and will only make lawyers rich.

[StrangeSox]

Weird how an issue that exploded thanks to several regressive states passing anti-trans laws is a "waste of time" for people to push back against, and that the federal government shouldn't be concerned about enforcing civil rights I guess.

[brett05]

Weird how an issue that exploded thanks to several regressive states passing anti-trans laws is a "waste of time" for people to push back against, and that the federal government shouldn't be concerned about enforcing civil rights I guess.

There are more than just Gender Identifiers rights here.

[Jenksismyhero]

Weird how an issue that exploded thanks to several regressive states passing anti-trans laws is a "waste of time" for people to push back against, and that the federal government shouldn't be concerned about enforcing civil rights I guess.

 

The status quo has not changed, even with the passing of that law. 6 months ago this was a non-issue and trans people went to the bathroom that the NC law is now just mandating they go to. A few sparse examples have popped up where trans people have complained about not being able to go to a certain bathroom, and now, 6 months later, it's a top story and priority in Washington. It's a typical American "problem." We got outraged about black people being shot (good job team!), now lets get outraged about 1000 people in the entire country not being able to go to the bathroom they want to go in.

 

The whole thing is absolutely embarrassing, on both sides.

[StrangeSox]

No, it's embarrassing for the bigots, and there's nothing to actually back up the "status quo" you claimed. Transgendered people who present as the gender they identify with (e.g. someone born a male but who now looks and acts female) did not go to the bathroom of the sex listed on their birth certificate as you seem to think they would. There's no dumb "both sides" going on here, there's one side being s***ty bigots.

 

 

[brett05]

It's also completely unnecessary, enormously expensive and would make bathrooms in large public places like stadiums or restaurants much less efficient while taking up a bunch of extra square footage.

To do it fast on the cheap is to change the doors with ones with a lock. That will get them by for now.

[Jenksismyhero]

No, it's embarrassing for the bigots, and there's nothing to actually back up the "status quo" you claimed. Transgendered people who present as the gender they identify with (e.g. someone born a male but who now looks and acts female) did not go to the bathroom of the sex listed on their birth certificate as you seem to think they would. There's no dumb "both sides" going on here, there's one side being s***ty bigots.

 

Yeah you're right. It's important for the federal government to spend time on something that affects so few people. Great use of resources. We don't have bigger and more important problems in this country. Bathroom rights is clearly the top priority.

[illinilaw08]

Yeah you're right. It's important for the federal government to spend time on something that affects so few people. Great use of resources. We don't have bigger and more important problems in this country. Bathroom rights is clearly the top priority.

 

Yeah! I really hate when the federal government spends money attacking crappy, regressive laws passed by the states that are intended to discriminate against a minority population.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah you're right. It's important for the federal government to spend time on something that affects so few people. Great use of resources. We don't have bigger and more important problems in this country. Bathroom rights is clearly the top priority.

 

1) The federal government is responding to NC's law.

2) The federal government is actually capable of doing more than one thing at a time. For example, they can prosecute both minor crimes and major multi-state terrorism conspiracy charges.

3) What you said does not actually validate your "both sides" attempt.

4) You seem to have completely ignored that the basis for your argument, that these laws didn't change anything, is actually completely wrong.

[brett05]

Yeah! I really hate when the federal government spends money attacking crappy, regressive laws passed by the states that are intended to discriminate against a minority population.

Don't all laws discriminate against someone?

[illinilaw08]

Don't all laws discriminate against someone?

 

No, they don't.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah! I really hate when the federal government spends money attacking crappy, regressive laws passed by the states that are intended to discriminate against a minority population.

 

Civil rights and equal protection are low priority issues. If a minority is small enough (1000 people according to jenks, in reality more like 1 million), it's a waste of time for the federal government to protect them (but not a waste of time for NC to pass their law?). Standing up for minority rights against bigots is embarrassing for both sides, as is apparently caring about black people getting shot.

[southsider2k5]

The status quo has not changed, even with the passing of that law. 6 months ago this was a non-issue and trans people went to the bathroom that the NC law is now just mandating they go to. A few sparse examples have popped up where trans people have complained about not being able to go to a certain bathroom, and now, 6 months later, it's a top story and priority in Washington. It's a typical American "problem." We got outraged about black people being shot (good job team!), now lets get outraged about 1000 people in the entire country not being able to go to the bathroom they want to go in.

 

The whole thing is absolutely embarrassing, on both sides.

 

How many people had been sued before the RFRA push?

[Jenksismyhero]

1) The federal government is responding to NC's law.

2) The federal government is actually capable of doing more than one thing at a time. For example, they can prosecute both minor crimes and major multi-state terrorism conspiracy charges.

3) What you said does not actually validate your "both sides" attempt.

4) You seem to have completely ignored that the basis for your argument, that these laws didn't change anything, is actually completely wrong.

 

(1) The White House felt compelled to draft a letter and send it out to every school district stating the DoJ's position on trans rights. Yes, indirectly it's responding to NC, but its doing so nationally, not locally and specifically to NC and the law.

 

(2) Sure it is, but it's still spending time/money/resources on an issue that affects so few people. Looking at this in the big picture, it's ridiculous our government is debating an issue like bathroom rights. That's my point. It's 20-f***ing-16. And we're arguing about bathroom rights. Not voting rights. Not property rights. Not employment rights. Where to go to the god damn bathroom.

 

(3) Sorry you think that.

 

(4) What did they change? Where did trans people go to the bathroom before? Yes, the NC law has now made it a mandate that they use their birth-gender associated bathroom, but you yourself earlier in this thread acknowledged that trans people have been going to those bathrooms unnoticed for years.

 

It's embarrassing that a state passed a law mandating where someone goes to the bathroom and it's embarrassing that the federal government has to now basically campaign for the rights of people to go to a bathroom.

[StrangeSox]

(1) The White House felt compelled to draft a letter and send it out to every school district stating the DoJ's position on trans rights. Yes, indirectly it's responding to NC, but its doing so nationally, not locally and specifically to NC and the law.

 

Ok? It was in response to a crap law. How much time and resources do you think it took to draft that letter?

(2) Sure it is, but it's still spending time/money/resources on an issue that affects so few people. Looking at this in the big picture, it's ridiculous our government is debating an issue like bathroom rights. That's my point. It's 20-f***ing-16. And we're arguing about bathroom rights. Not voting rights. Not property rights. Not employment rights. Where to go to the god damn bathroom.

 

We're arguing about it because bigots are making it an issue and attacking transgendered people. This does not preclude discussions of voting rights (which you agreed with Scalia back in Shelby County that they were a 'racial entitlement'!), property rights or anything else. The alternative is that states like NC attack LGBT rights and nothing is done because you don't care.

 

(3) Sorry you think that.

 

You haven't actually presented a coherent argument so

 

(4) What did they change? Where did trans people go to the bathroom before? Yes, the NC law has now made it a mandate that they use their birth-gender associated bathroom, but you yourself earlier in this thread acknowledged that trans people have been going to those bathrooms unnoticed for years.

 

You're contradicting yourself here. Trans people have been going into the bathrooms of their choice for years. This law makes it explicitly illegal for them to enter the bathroom of the gender they present as. Why do you think that isn't a change? Why did NC pass the law then?

 

It's embarrassing that a state passed a law mandating where someone goes to the bathroom and it's embarrassing that the federal government has to now basically campaign for the rights of people to go to a bathroom.

 

It is embarrassing that the federal government has to do that, yes. That doesn't mean it's embarrassing for the federal government to do that. It's embarrassing every time they have to enforce civil rights and equal protection.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

How many people had been sued before the RFRA push?

 

I don't know, but the RFRA was equally unnecessary.

[brett05]

No, they don't.

Sure they do. It prevents people from doing what they want.