The Bathroom Dilemma

[cabiness42]

When my daughter gets to the age where she is expected to shower at school after gym class and/or athletic events, if the school is not providing a penis-free place to shower, she won't be participating in activities.

[greg775]

When my daughter gets to the age where she is expected to shower at school after gym class and/or athletic events, if the school is not providing a penis-free place to shower, she won't be participating in activities.

Finally! Somebody besides, uh, ME, is thinking about this in common sense, put yourself in the situation terms. Hickory, thank you. His comment, is REALITY, folks. So we get a guy who dresses in drag (if he's got the male body parts he's still a guy I say!) and says he "IDENTIFIES" with being a female so he is welcomed into the women's bathroom/shower room.

This is the reality. Girls in elementary school, high school, have to go in the shower with the PENIS out for all to see! Some of you are shocking me with your cavalier, get your head out of the gutter he's not there for sex, talk. THE REALITY is somebody's daughter, 12 to 16 years old has to get in a shower with a dick nearby!

 

Thanks, Huskers. I thought some people would think about putting themselves in this position when I kept bringing up the Subway situation, but everybody just blasted me for not being tolerant of the transgender (he might have had a dick and just been in drag) rather than not being a p**** and manning up and forcing my stomach to eat with him in the restaurant.

 

THANK YOU HICKORY

Edited May 13, 2016 by greg775

[StrangeSox]

As has already been pointed out to you, drag and transgendered are not the same thing.

[greg775]

As has already been pointed out to you, drag and transgendered are not the same thing.

I don't know which he was, my bad. What do you think of Hickory's post?

[StrangeSox]

A bad post but not nearly as bad as your response. As others have noted, same-sex abuse by coaches or teachers happens and yet I don't see declarations that people won't send their children to public restrooms or shower rooms because there will be someone else there.

[greg775]

A bad post but not nearly as bad as your response. As others have noted, same-sex abuse by coaches or teachers happens and yet I don't see declarations that people won't send their children to public restrooms or shower rooms because there will be someone else there.

Because a parent like Hickory, a concerned parent, will not let his daughter go into a locker room when it is APPROVED for a penis to be in there. Why is his post a bad post. He is being a GREAT parent.

[cabiness42]

A bad post but not nearly as bad as your response. As others have noted, same-sex abuse by coaches or teachers happens and yet I don't see declarations that people won't send their children to public restrooms or shower rooms because there will be someone else there.

 

First of all, it's not just abuse that I'm worried about. It's her being exposed to naked males and males being able to see her naked, even if there is no contact involved. There doesn't have to be a violation of laws for there to be things that I just don't want happening. Also, schools have a higher level accountability for what their employees do than what other kids do.

[illinilaw08]

First of all, it's not just abuse that I'm worried about. It's her being exposed to naked males and males being able to see her naked, even if there is no contact involved. There doesn't have to be a violation of laws for there to be things that I just don't want happening. Also, schools have a higher level accountability for what their employees do than what other kids do.

 

So Hickory, my understanding of the DOJ's interpretation of the issue is that transgendered students are protected under Title IX. To the extent that a student identifies as transgendered, either the student or the parents must notify the school that the student identifies as the other gender, and the school treats the student consistent with that identity.

 

The guidance further goes on to say that the schools can provide additional privacy accommodations to any student for any reason. And the guidance does not require ANY student to use any shared changing space.

 

Male students are not going to be able to just show up one day and say "hey guys, I'm feeling like a lady today so I can expose myself to the girls in the showers!" And if your daughters are concerned about the situation, they can seek additional protection of their own.

 

The point here is that the DOJ is not pushing for shared shower spaces with males and females all naked and running around.

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-departmen...re-civil-rights

 

Does that help at all from your standpoint?

 

 

[Quin]

Do they still do showers in HS other than for swimming? Even in that case, I remember having, you know, curtains.

[cabiness42]

So Hickory, my understanding of the DOJ's interpretation of the issue is that transgendered students are protected under Title IX. To the extent that a student identifies as transgendered, either the student or the parents must notify the school that the student identifies as the other gender, and the school treats the student consistent with that identity.

 

The guidance further goes on to say that the schools can provide additional privacy accommodations to any student for any reason. And the guidance does not require ANY student to use any shared changing space.

 

Male students are not going to be able to just show up one day and say "hey guys, I'm feeling like a lady today so I can expose myself to the girls in the showers!" And if your daughters are concerned about the situation, they can seek additional protection of their own.

 

The point here is that the DOJ is not pushing for shared shower spaces with males and females all naked and running around.

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-departmen...re-civil-rights

 

Does that help at all from your standpoint?

 

No, because most schools don't have enough shower space to do everything you are saying. If males claim to be M-F transgendered and want to use the girls' shower, where do the girls go who don't want to be in there with males? Is the DOJ paying to upgrade all public schools to deal with this?

[Y2Jimmy0]

I just pictured the wrestling announcer Jim Ross shouting "OH MY GOD. THAT'S A PENIS"!!!

[Dick Allen]

I don't know which he was, my bad. What do you think of Hickory's post?

Shower and bathroom are 2 different things.

[caulfield12]

So Hickory, would you be against her attending Northwestern, where many of the freshman dorms have "common showers" with unisex stalls together in the same bathroom and boys living on one side of the same floor, girls on the other? Does being 18+ years old change your feeling about this issue?

 

Or maybe that has changed with NU, but that was the case around 1988-1990.

 

Just curious from a parenting perspective...I know it's not the same.

Edited May 13, 2016 by caulfield12

[cabiness42]

So Hickory, would you be against her attending Northwestern, where many of the freshman dorms have "common showers" with unisex stalls together in the same bathroom and boys living on one side of the same floor, girls on the other? Does being 18+ years old change your feeling about this issue?

 

Or maybe that has changed with NU, but that was the case around 1988-1990.

 

Just curious from a parenting perspective...I know it's not the same.

 

I would strongly discourage her from living anywhere with common showers, but once she's 18 it's her decision.

[StrangeSox]

How many schools still have fully nude showering anyway? That wasn't a thing when I was in high school.

[RockRaines]

How many schools still have fully nude showering anyway? That wasn't a thing when I was in high school.

It's not common anymore.

[Quin]

How many schools still have fully nude showering anyway? That wasn't a thing when I was in high school.

 

But if they do have those, can we bring pepper spray into the showers?

[greg775]

I cannot believe America is so P.C., so afraid to step on any group, that this is an issue to where big companies will boycott the states that merely want to keep females with penises OUT of the women's bathroom. Do you realize what a small percentage of Americans we are talking about here?? Truthfully is it even 1 percent?? So just because a man with a penis IDENTIFIES with being female we are going to pass laws letting this person with a penis go in the ladies room? My god.

 

How about attacking the homeless problem America?? Or saving the environment? Or fixing roads? Making sure our seniors won't all be homeless? Having affordable healthcare! No ... we're going to worry about changing all the bathroom signs in America to make sure people with penises who IDENTIFY with being female get to go in the women's room.

What a country.

[Quin]

I cannot believe America is so P.C., so afraid to step on any group, that this is an issue to where big companies will boycott the states that merely want to keep females with penises OUT of the women's bathroom. Do you realize what a small percentage of Americans we are talking about here?? Truthfully is it even 1 percent?? So just because a man with a penis IDENTIFIES with being female we are going to pass laws letting this person with a penis go in the ladies room? My god.

 

How about attacking the homeless problem America?? Or saving the environment? Or fixing roads? Making sure our seniors won't all be homeless? Having affordable healthcare! No ... we're going to worry about changing all the bathroom signs in America to make sure people with penises who IDENTIFY with being female get to go in the women's room.

What a country.

 

Greg.

[caulfield12]

That's why we have the Constitution.

 

To protect the rights of the minority from being infringed upon by the majority or even "factions" (feels like the perfect word for this election cycle.)

 

I wondered when I read Greg's line what an internet message board would have looked like in say, 1935, "those pesky Jews, why should we, the Nazi Party be afraid to step on..." Of course, bathroom discrimination vs. holocaust atrocity isn't quite the same thing (nor is Trump Hitler), but the point remains that the system exists to protect individual rights from being trampled.

 

The operative question, of course, is what are those individual rights and who defines them. During the Bush Era, we saw that the Patriot Act could supersede our rights, rightly or wrongly. What are Greg's rights (to be offended or to "protect" his daughter, even it's an imaginary need) vs. the rights of those wanting to utilize the bathroom where they feel most comfortable? What provides the greatest good for the greatest number of people? Are there millions and millions of fellow Greg's out there, a Nixonian silenty majority on this topic that are afraid to join Greg's crusade openly and publicly?

Edited May 14, 2016 by caulfield12

[greg775]

That's why we have the Constitution.

 

To protect the rights of the minority from being infringed upon by the majority or even "factions" (feels like the perfect word for this election cycle.)

 

I wondered when I read Greg's line what an internet message board would have looked like in say, 1935, "those pesky Jews, why should we, the Nazi Party be afraid to step on..." Of course, bathroom discrimination vs. holocaust atrocity isn't quite the same thing (nor is Trump Hitler), but the point remains that the system exists to protect individual rights from being trampled.

 

The operative question, of course, is what are those individual rights and who defines them. During the Bush Era, we saw that the Patriot Act could supersede our rights, rightly or wrongly. What are Greg's rights (to be offended or to "protect" his daughter, even it's an imaginary need) vs. the rights of those wanting to utilize the bathroom where they feel most comfortable? What provides the greatest good for the greatest number of people? Are there millions and millions of fellow Greg's out there, a Nixonian silenty majority on this topic that are afraid to join Greg's crusade openly and publicly?

 

The state of Kansas, which is run by a moronic governor (he'd still win re-election tomorrow if there was an election cause of the fact it says R before his name, even though he's damaged the state dearly) is probably going to pass one of those laws that says if you want to go into the ladies room you have to have 'lady' written on your birth certificate and you'll have to get it changed lest you get thrown into the men's room. So Kansas will face all the boycotts, etc. Missouri I believe survived unscathed; the law didn't pass. But Kansas has some who are pushing to deny use of the women's room to anybody who has a penis.

[caulfield12]

How in God's name would they enforce that?

 

Guards at all public restrooms? The police are going to deal with 911 calls on this issue? Citations/fines?

 

Would you support camera/monitors in the public restroom? Wouldn't that be even MORE invasive towards all those people who don't care about the issue one way or the other? 3D sensors/body scanners when you go into a bathroom that would give an electric shock to someone who didn't belong there OR notify the nearest law enforcement personnel?

 

Are you going to have individuals feeling empowered by laws that aren't really meant to be enforced seeking out confrontations with people going into the bathroom...then you're going to end up with even more shooting deaths in the US as self-righteous individuals took it upon themselves to "evict" people from the restrooms.

 

I don't know the answer on this one, but escalating the problem or increasing conflict might not be the answer.

[greg775]

This is one of the most absurd issues in American history. Considering the amount of people this affects the main gay and lesbian rights group should be ashamed of itself for jumping on this bandwagon. How many people in this world have a penis but "identify" themselves as women? How many? And we're going to change all the restrooms in the entire f***ing country for them. All because they might be inconvenienced for the amount of time it takes to go to the bathroom.

 

Listen, it's time to toughen up. If you have a f***ing dick go to the men's room!

 

One other thing ... this PC stuff on campus is out of control. Comedians won't venture anywhere near a campus anymore cause of the PC bulls***. Jokes aren't laughed at by the pampered babies of this world. At the mere mention of the word black, they hiss. Gay they hiss. The audiences boo the comics off stage, famous comics. It's disgraceful what has happened to America.

Maybe Trump can change the PC bulls***.

 

What do u all think of this article. Sounds like Americans are gonna homeschool their kids rather than have them subjected to this crap. And why wouldn't they homeschool their kids over this?

Here's what this means in real life: A junior football player comes to school and decides he'd love to go into the girls bathroom so he simply walks in the girls bathroom. He hangs out in there. When approached by the dean: WTF are you doing??? He says, "I identify as a woman. I demand to use their bathroom." Boom! He's in. By law! If this is America ... time to homeschool or go to private school where they can make rules and do as they please.

 

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/05/13/tx-l..._article_footer

 

Hmmm man choking girl in women's bathroom.

http://www.wnd.com/2016/05/obama-obsession...s-in-bathrooms/

Edited May 15, 2016 by greg775

[caulfield12]

How many examples are there in American where middle and high school football players are "openly identifying as gay/transgender" in order to gain access to the woman's bathroom?

 

Should the members of my girls' JV basketball and volleyball teams have refused to change in front of their lesbian coach...or asked her to use the men's room instead? She didn't have a penis but made them feel uncomfortable that she was watching them change, not even taking a shower, because they all knew she was a lesbian and had a g/f or "partner."

 

 

Here's the problem Greg...if you substitute Native American for "transgender," you have about the same exact number percentage-wise of the US population. Imagine the reaction you would get openly campaigning about giving any benefits or "special programs" or scholarships or whatever to that "tiny percentage of the US." You would be crucified, even in Kansas. Well, maybe not in KS but in many parts of the country, a lot of people would be rightfully outraged by that kind of talk.

 

It's not about numbers or cost...or we wouldn't have passed the Americans With Disabilities Act and retrofitted lots of school buildings with ramps/elevators/disabled accessibility, new public stadiums and theatres, etc. Many countries around the world don't have them because they're inconvenient or more expensive or those countries believe it's the responsibility of handicapped people to figure out the solution for themselves.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2016 by caulfield12

[cabiness42]

How many examples are there in American where middle and high school football players are "openly identifying as gay/transgender" in order to gain access to the woman's bathroom?

 

None of these involve football players, but this article cites a few examples where straight men have abused these new rules:

 

http://www.ruthinstitute.org/ruth-speaks-o...omens-bathrooms

 

There are plenty more out there if you search for them.