Avi Needs to Go

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'm done with Avi. He's showing no progression whatsoever.

[Panerista]

Another vote for adios to Avi. Seems like a good guy, but this is baseball, not politics.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Another vote for adios to Avi. Seems like a good guy, but this is baseball, not politics.

 

Sox managerneeds to have an every game counts attitude, Avi has an option left. Send him down, It's beyond obvious he needs time with his new stance.

 

Too bad Coats isn't left handed.Shuck will come back 1st when EJ gets sent back down. Most likely no other changes will be made unless Avila goes on the DL then we'll see Kevan Smith. But like others I wouldn't mind seeing Sanchez and/or Coats up. Sands would have to be waived and Avi sent down .Neither are late inning defensive replacements . Coats and Sanchez would improve defense and give the team more versatilty. Since neither Avi or Sands are hitting could be a wash offensively or even a plus.

[reiks12]

The big difference is that Rick Hahn is being paid to improve the team. He is supposed to be stressed out about doing something. None of us fall into that category. But hey, don't let me stop the Misery crowd from hobbling themselves as the Sox biggest fans.

 

Who here wrote that fans discussion the negative aspects of the team are the biggest fans?

 

Post source from this thread.

 

No negative posters here are telling people what and how to post. The only people who are doing so are you and DA. Its old. This is a Sox discussion board where we discuss the Sox in detail. Yes, that includes scuffling players.

 

Discussing internal and external options for Avi is not "being miserable". Get off your high horse and put aside your "holier than thou" attitude.

[OmarComing25]

Who here wrote that fans discussion the negative aspects of the team are the biggest fans?

 

Post source from this thread.

 

No negative posters here are telling people what and how to post. The only people who are doing so are you and DA. Its old. This is a Sox discussion board where we discuss the Sox in detail. Yes, that includes scuffling players.

 

Discussing internal and external options for Avi is not "being miserable". Get off your high horse and put aside your "holier than thou" attitude.

They do kind of have a point. There's a ridiculous amount of complaining and moaning on this board for a 12-6 team. The game threads are pretty much unreadable.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

More fuel for those who want Avi gone....

 

He ranks 2nd in the MLB at swing% of pitches OUTSIDE the zone. He swings at 45.1% of the balls he gets thrown.

 

[Lillian]

I said it once, and I'll say it again. To those who find reading a thread entitled "Avi Has To Go," annoying: if you don't want to read anything negative, then don't read threads with titles like this one. The only thing more annoying than a negative thread, while the Sox are in first place, is wasting time and energy, having to refute some absurd argument which actually asserts that we shouldn't criticize anything, because the team is playing .650 ball.

 

Just because some think that the winning results should simply be enjoyed, without critical analysis, does not preclude others from being interested in discussing ways to improve the team. Moreover, such discussions are not negative. A sense of urgency to fix whatever problems the team does have, precisely because it would be a shame not to, given how close this team is to being a real contender, shouldn't be considered negative. I, for one, am very positive about a team that can be in first place, with a couple glaring deficiencies. Just imagine what they could do, without those deficiencies.

 

Replacing Avi with a productive left handed bat, in the middle of this lineup, would not only improve the offense, but it would afford the luxury of improving the critically important defense, as SS. If they had a solid 1 - 6, they could live with Saladino's questionable offense, in order to have a really tight left side of the infield. It is worth noting that, in his very brief career, he is a .247 hitter, when batting in the 2 hole. He can turn around a fast ball and would likely see plenty of them, hitting in front of the middle of the order, especially an improved one. He's also a decent bunter and a smart player. However, with no production out of DH, it's hard to carry a potentially weak bat at SS, which is just one more reason why replacing Avi is worth discussing.

 

Look at this lineup, with a decent, productive bat, instead of Avi:

 

RF Eaton

SS Saladino (another option would be to flip Saladino and Jackson, in the order)

1B Abreu

DH Solid Bat, preferably LH

3B Frazier

LF Melky

2B Lawrie

C Avila/Navaro

CF Jackson

 

If the productive replacement for Avi could play a solid defense in LF, that would further improve the defense by allowing Melky to DH.

Is it any wonder that some of us attach such importance to finding a good replacement for the struggling Garcia?

[pettie4sox]

Sure Avi needs to go but if you guys want a LH MOTO producer, there are none in sight that won't cause us to gut the Sox farm. CarGo and Bruce? Yeah those guys would probably be excellent additions but how do you obtain them? Most likely it'll be before the deadline and it's going to cost an arm (literally) and a leg.

[southsider2k5]

They do kind of have a point. There's a ridiculous amount of complaining and moaning on this board for a 12-6 team. The game threads are pretty much unreadable.

 

Exactly. Misery.

[GreenSox]

Sure Avi needs to go but if you guys want a LH MOTO producer, there are none in sight that won't cause us to gut the Sox farm. CarGo and Bruce? Yeah those guys would probably be excellent additions but how do you obtain them? Most likely it'll be before the deadline and it's going to cost an arm (literally) and a leg.

That's true. There is an undying yearn for yet another NL slugger. And of course that's Kenny Williams' M.O., despite the consistently dubious results.

But just a guy who can get on base would help immensely for the 1/2 hole (Eaton would be sensational at 2 if they could find a 1). Getting men on base is what this team really lacks. And that wouldn't cost much.

The Ranger reliever couldn't throw strikes and some of our guys still wanted to hack at it instead of taking the walk.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

More fuel for those who want Avi gone....

 

He ranks 2nd in the MLB at swing% of pitches OUTSIDE the zone. He swings at 45.1% of the balls he gets thrown.

I've seen that with the naked eye

[Thad Bosley]

Exactly. Misery.

You gotta love a board admin who constantly, each and every day, tries to derail and deflect constructive conversations around the ball players and team and turn those discussions into these kind of personal attacks and insults. Every single day this goes on. And the irony is that not one fan, in this case the ones discussing the problem that is Avi Garcia at the moment, not one of those fans comes off even remotely negative or miserable. The only time Misery rears it's ugly head is when SS2K5 and DA chime in and begin with the attacks and insults. It is only at those points in the discussion when the whole thing begins to go negative.

[southsider2k5]

You gotta love a board admin who constantly, each and every day, tries to derail and deflect constructive conversations around the ball players and team and turn those discussions into these kind of personal attacks and insults. Every single day this goes on. And the irony is that not one fan, in this case the ones discussing the problem that is Avi Garcia at the moment, not one of those fans comes off even remotely negative or miserable. The only time Misery rears it's ugly head is when SS2K5 and DA chime in and begin with the attacks and insults. It is only at those points in the discussion when the whole thing begins to go negative.

 

Its sad that people can't handle an opinion other than their own. It is also sad that people can't enjoy good baseball.

[Thad Bosley]

Its sad that people can't handle an opinion other than their own. It is also sad that people can't enjoy good baseball.

Nice to see some introspection going on here, because these two sentiments absolutely apply to you.

[Thad Bosley]

I said it once, and I'll say it again. To those who find reading a thread entitled "Avi Has To Go," annoying: if you don't want to read anything negative, then don't read threads with titles like this one. The only thing more annoying than a negative thread, while the Sox are in first place, is wasting time and energy, having to refute some absurd argument which actually asserts that we shouldn't criticize anything, because the team is playing .650 ball.

 

Just because some think that the winning results should simply be enjoyed, without critical analysis, does not preclude others from being interested in discussing ways to improve the team. Moreover, such discussions are not negative. A sense of urgency to fix whatever problems the team does have, precisely because it would be a shame not to, given how close this team is to being a real contender, shouldn't be considered negative. I, for one, am very positive about a team that can be in first place, with a couple glaring deficiencies. Just imagine what they could do, without those deficiencies.

 

Replacing Avi with a productive left handed bat, in the middle of this lineup, would not only improve the offense, but it would afford the luxury of improving the critically important defense, as SS. If they had a solid 1 - 6, they could live with Saladino's questionable offense, in order to have a really tight left side of the infield. It is worth noting that, in his very brief career, he is a .247 hitter, when batting in the 2 hole. He can turn around a fast ball and would likely see plenty of them, hitting in front of the middle of the order, especially an improved one. He's also a decent bunter and a smart player. However, with no production out of DH, it's hard to carry a potentially weak bat at SS, which is just one more reason why replacing Avi is worth discussing.

 

Look at this lineup, with a decent, productive bat, instead of Avi:

 

RF Eaton

SS Saladino (another option would be to flip Saladino and Jackson, in the order)

1B Abreu

DH Solid Bat, preferably LH

3B Frazier

LF Melky

2B Lawrie

C Avila/Navaro

CF Jackson

 

If the productive replacement for Avi could play a solid defense in LF, that would further improve the defense by allowing Melky to DH.

Is it any wonder that some of us attach such importance to finding a good replacement for the struggling Garcia?

While a productive LH bat might seem ideal as the replacement for Garcia, Lillian, I wouldn't get too caught up on that idea. A RH like, oh, I don't know, someone like Yoenis Cespedes and hIS sparkling .991 OPS would look just fine in the clean-up spot in our lineup. Now where can you find someone just like him!

[southsider2k5]

Nice to see some introspection going on here, because these two sentiments absolutely apply to you.

 

Even in a best case scenario to start the season, here you are concentrating on the worst. And attacking people by name for having an opinion other than yours. But that is how these posts usually go. As soon as someone answers back to a post of yours or following your agenda, you go after them personally. I sure didn't mention you, yet here you are. Again. I can't count how many times you have done exactly this. But keep playing the victim card every time.

[Lillian]

While a productive LH bat might seem ideal as the replacement for Garcia, Lillian, I wouldn't get too caught up on that idea. A RH like, oh, I don't know, someone like Yoenis Cespedes and hIS sparkling .991 OPS would look just fine in the clean-up spot in our lineup. Now where can you find someone just like him!

 

You'll note that I did say "preferably" a LH bat. At this point, I agree and would settle for a decent hitter from either side of the plate.

Someone like Cespedes is a little too ambitious. I'd be satisfied with a Matt Joyce type, with a decent OBP and a little pop. I don't know who, but am hoping.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

You gotta love a board admin who constantly, each and every day, tries to derail and deflect constructive conversations around the ball players and team and turn those discussions into these kind of personal attacks and insults. Every single day this goes on. And the irony is that not one fan, in this case the ones discussing the problem that is Avi Garcia at the moment, not one of those fans comes off even remotely negative or miserable. The only time Misery rears it's ugly head is when SS2K5 and DA chime in and begin with the attacks and insults. It is only at those points in the discussion when the whole thing begins to go negative.

Yup. I'm not miserable I'm f***ing estatic right now. Just want Avi gone. That doesn't make me miserable.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

While a productive LH bat might seem ideal as the replacement for Garcia, Lillian, I wouldn't get too caught up on that idea. A RH like, oh, I don't know, someone like Yoenis Cespedes and hIS sparkling .991 OPS would look just fine in the clean-up spot in our lineup. Now where can you find someone just like him!

 

That is water under the bridge. Have to move on from that. I made it known I wanted Cespedes more than Gordon or Upton but the off season is over. Time to move on. Lillian is right. Maybe Hahn is working on it now. I still think if Morneau is available come June that is probably the earliest we can expect any front office moves and easily the best option . The only thing that bothers me is the deliberate nature of the front office.There is nothing wrong or panicky about making small moves now.How much more can Avi's confidence be shot by sending him down ? It actually might do him some good and in the long haul the team .

 

Bottom line is we all want what's best for the team and shouldn't get caught up with personality conflicts. State your case ,make your arguments and counter arguments but for heavens sake let be mature enough to do all that with poise and grace. I will try to take my own advice as well.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If I were Hahn, I'd look to make a move sooner rather than later, when the bidding wars start. The Sox don't have enough in their minor league system to out-bid another team.

 

I'm not too hot on Bruce (or Markakis), but I think that salary-dump players like those two might be the most realistic options for the Sox. The sooner the Reds and Braves move those guys, the more money they save, so there's some incentive to move them before the ASB. But I'm not sure if the savings are enough incentive to pass on getting potentially better prospect packages from other teams in July.

 

I think it's imperative that those kinds of moves are not considered at all until an internal option like Coats is tried. Maybe the Sox system doesn't produce a guy like Manzara with Texas or a Piscotty or Grichuk with St. Louis but we will never know until they are given a shot .There's nothing to lose , they can always be sent back down. Then we can try Morneau. Those moves would not preclude other moves being made like taking on big salaries and giving up more prospects would.

[Lillian]

That is water under the bridge. Have to move on from that. I made it known I wanted Cespedes more than Gordon or Upton but the off season is over. Time to move on. Lillian is right. Maybe Hahn is working on it now. I still think if Morneau is available come June that is probably the earliest we can expect any front office moves and easily the best option . The only thing that bothers me is the deliberate nature of the front office.There is nothing wrong or panicky about making small moves now.How much more can Avi's confidence be shot by sending him down ? It actually might do him some good and in the long haul the team .

 

Bottom line is we all want what's best for the team and shouldn't get caught up with personality conflicts. State your case ,make your arguments and counter arguments but for heavens sake let be mature enough to do all that with poise and grace. I will try to take my own advice as well.

 

Very well said and it probably needed saying. Thank you, very much.

[Black_Jack29]

I think it's imperative that those kinds of moves are not considered at all until an internal option like Coats is tried. Maybe the Sox system doesn't produce a guy like Manzara with Texas or a Piscotty or Grichuk with St. Louis but we will never know until they are given a shot .There's nothing to lose , they can always be sent back down. Then we can try Morneau. Those moves would not preclude other moves being made like taking on big salaries and giving up more prospects would.

 

Morneau just had elbow surgery. I'd rather pick up the salary of a healthy, younger guy like Bruce or Markakis than roll the dice on Morneau to save a few bucks.

 

I don't have a philosophical objection to trying an internal option, but none of these guys look like they're ready to consistently hit at the ML level and we need somebody to step in and produce right away. As long as we're not giving up Fulmer or Anderson, I don't object to trading for a proven vet in his prime.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Morneau just had elbow surgery. I'd rather pick up the salary of a healthy, younger guy like Bruce or Markakis than roll the dice on Morneau to save a few bucks.

 

I don't have a philosophical objection to trying an internal option, but none of these guys look like they're ready to consistently hit at the ML level and we need somebody to step in and produce right away. As long as we're not giving up Fulmer or Anderson, I don't object to trading for a proven vet in his prime.

 

Bruce is a rental. Already have too many guys on 1 or 2 year terms. Prospects for rentals at this point after giving up so many is counterproductive to the health of the system. Bruce is a RF so you would move him to LF ? Cincinnati, in the Frazier trade, already seems to dislike our prospects and that was with Trayce , Montas, and M Johnson. Maye you DH him but the problem seems to lie in acquiring him especially given whatever competition there might be for him and Cincy not liking our guys.

 

Rolling the dice on Morneau also means the team could make other deals.Maybe Morneau might not be ready until July but after missing most of last season he stepped right in the Rockies lineup and produced. Prefer his knowledge of the AL, his cost, no prospects given up and to have that saved "few bucks" as to not limit the Sox ability to make other moves that may crop up.

 

Bruce is a cheaper option that Markakis but Markasis is signed through 2018 @ $11M per season so don't see the Sox acquiring him unless ATL eats some of that but then they'd want a better prospect. Pretty sure Markakis is not who the Sox had in mind for another 2 years after this one when they didn't offer Dexter Fowler that much for the same amount of time.I know LaRoche's salary was still around then but that's still a hefty price for a guy like Markasis .

Edited April 24, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Black_Jack29]

Bruce is a rental. Already have too many guys on 1 or 2 year terms. Prospects for rentals at this point after giving up so many is counterproductive to the health of the system. Bruce is a RF so you would move him to LF ? Cincinnati, in the Frazier trade, already seems to dislike our prospects and that was with Trayce , Montas, and M Johnson. Maye you DH him but the problem seems to lie in acquiring him especially given whatever competition there might be for him and Cincy not liking our guys.

 

I would rotate Melky with either Bruce or Markakis at DH and LF.

 

Rolling the dice on Morneau also means the team could make other deals.Maybe Morneau might not be ready until July but after missing most of last season he stepped right in the Rockies lineup and produced. Prefer his knowledge of the AL, his cost, no prospects given up and to have that saved "few bucks" as to not limit the Sox ability to make other moves that may crop up.

 

Bruce is a cheaper option that Markakis but Markasis is signed through 2018 @ $11M per season so don't see the Sox acquiring him unless ATL eats some of that but then they'd want a better prospect. Pretty sure Markakis is not who the Sox had in mind for another 2 years after this one when they didn't offer Dexter Fowler that much for the same amount of time.I know LaRoche's salary was still around then but that's still a hefty price for a guy like Markasis .

 

I don't think that the Sox are going to be able to make big-impact deals later this summer because they don't have any tradable pieces in the minors. The only incentive that the Sox can give another team right now is eating the contract of a player that they don't want to pay anymore.

 

I agree that ATL would have to eat some of Markakis' contract.

 

The big problem at the Sox have right now is that they'll likely lose Ajax at free agency this winter, they'll lose Melky to free agency the following winter, and they have nobody in the minors who is projected to be able to step up by then.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I would rotate Melky with either Bruce or Markakis at DH and LF.

 

 

 

I don't think that the Sox are going to be able to make big-impact deals later this summer because they don't have any tradable pieces in the minors. The only incentive that the Sox can give another team right now is eating the contract of a player that they don't want to pay anymore.

 

I agree that ATL would have to eat some of Markakis' contract.

 

The big problem at the Sox have right now is that they'll likely lose Ajax at free agency this winter, they'll lose Melky to free agency the following winter, and they have nobody in the minors who is projected to be able to step up by then.

 

Avila and Navarro also on 1 year contracts as is Latos. Also lose Frazier and Lawrie the same year as Melky. Just don't see the Sox taking on too much more money with so many holes to fill in the next 2 years, unless its to take a stab at resigning Frazier and I wouldn't count on that.