Cleveland outdrew us? Attendance down 13% so far

[caulfield12]

11,525 vs. 11,418 yesterday.

 

Right now, we're currently in 28th place in attendance, ahead of only TB and Cleveland.

 

At this point last year, after six games...we had drawn 125,423 for an average of 20,904. After Thursday's games, we passed the 100,000 mark, at 109,213 for an average of 18,202.

 

 

The net difference is -2,702 tickets sold per game, a decline of roughly 13%. That's probably a pretty fair estimate of the decrease in season tickets sold from 2015, a loss of somewhere between 2,500-3,000 season tickets.

 

The only difference was that first Sunday game against CLE was wiped out, but the weekday opponent (Angels/Trout & Pujols) was or should have been a better draw than the Cleveland Indians.

 

 

 

On the plus side, last year we were 7-9 (and headed to 8-14) vs. 10-6 this year, a three game improvement (and a pace for 101 wins).

 

If you consider the "Fan Cost Index" number of $26.05 for the 2015 White Sox, over a full season, that projects to a loss of ONLY $5.7 million in revenue, or less than 1/2 of Adam LaRoche's 2016 contract.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

It's cool guys, I'll be there tomorrow. We're good.

[ShandyMan]

Blackhawks, rain projected, weekday. Not all that surprised. Keep winning and they'll draw plenty in the summer.

[Bob Sacamano]

11,525 vs. 11,418 yesterday.

 

Right now, we're currently in 28th place in attendance, ahead of only TB and Cleveland.

 

At this point last year, after six games...we had drawn 125,423 for an average of 20,904. After Thursday's games, we passed the 100,000 mark, at 109,213 for an average of 18,202.

 

 

The net difference is -2,702 tickets sold per game, a decline of roughly 13%. That's probably a pretty fair estimate of the decrease in season tickets sold from 2015, a loss of somewhere between 2,500-3,000 season tickets.

 

The only difference was that first Sunday game against CLE was wiped out, but the weekday opponent (Angels/Trout & Pujols) was or should have been a better draw than the Cleveland Indians.

 

 

 

On the plus side, last year we were 7-9 (and headed to 8-14) vs. 10-6 this year, a three game improvement (and a pace for 101 wins).

 

If you consider the "Fan Cost Index" number of $26.05 for the 2015 White Sox, over a full season, that projects to a loss of ONLY $5.7 million in revenue, or less than 1/2 of Adam LaRoche's 2016 contract.

 

It looks even sadder if you take away a sold out Opening Day.

[knightni]

Blackhawks, rain projected, weekday. Not all that surprised. Keep winning and they'll draw plenty in the summer.

Fairweather Chicago fans watching the Cubs.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

While the Sox don't have good attendance, there are a few reasons why they've drawn so few people so far.

 

1. Danks has pitched twice at home, and people won't spend their hard earned money to watch him.

2. A game was rained out.

3. The game before that was terrible weather, and the upper deck was closed and many people left as a result.

4. Day games during the week never draw many people.

 

[Big Hurtin]

Fairweather Chicago fans watching the Cubs.

Well, they had a no-hitter and more runs scored in the game than the Sox have in a week.

[caulfield12]

That would make sense if one of Danks' starts wasn't the home opener and the other on the road.

Statistically, there's very little correlation with attendance upticks even in Chris Sale starts.

 

It's looking at the same number of games (six) as last year, so the rainout probably ends up as a neutral because had they tried to play under those conditions the walk-up would have been less than 500 and their overall attendance would be even lower than its current 18,000+ average.

 

At any rate, more evidence forthcoming this weekend against the Rangers, an "average" or slightly below draw one would imagine.

 

 

[Dunt]

That would make sense if one of Danks' starts wasn't the home opener and the other on the road.

Statistically, there's very little correlation with attendance upticks even in Chris Sale starts.

 

It's looking at the same number of games (six) as last year, so the rainout probably ends up as a neutral because had they tried to play under those conditions the walk-up would have been less than 500 and their overall attendance would be even lower than its current 18,000+ average.

 

At any rate, more evidence forthcoming this weekend against the Rangers, an "average" or slightly below draw one would imagine.

 

For someone that lives half a world away and doesnt attend games, you care a lot about the attendance of games.

[bmags]

Caulfield perhaps you should go to games if this is such a concern that you need to make a thread about it every month.

[Y2Jimmy0]

While the Sox don't have good attendance, there are a few reasons why they've drawn so few people so far.

 

1. Danks has pitched twice at home, and people won't spend their hard earned money to watch him.

2. A game was rained out.

3. The game before that was terrible weather, and the upper deck was closed and many people left as a result.

4. Day games during the week never draw many people.

 

 

Why did those people leave? There were upgraded to the 100 level for free and at that point, they could literally sit anywhere they wanted. I was at that game.

[shysocks]

/thread

[caulfield12]

This is a ridiculous line of thought. (Gee, thanks!)

 

1.) You think you can take an the total tickets from the first six games of the last two seasons, take the difference and conclude it to be the loss in season ticket base? You know nothing about their internal numbers (By all means, since you have the inside connections, why don't you get a quote directly from Brooks Boyer or someone in the ticket office that contradicts my assertion...that the interest and sales are actually up this year compared to last...) nor do you understand statistics or how attendance works. Very mature.

 

2.) You think people in Chicago are coming out to see Trout and Pujols? This isn't LeBron in the NBA. Nobody cares about stars in the post steroid era. But that's probably something you don't understand unless immersed in this society, so I'll give you a pass on that.

 

By this argument, signing superstars doesn't or shouldn't matter, but nor would a complete rebuild, either, because nobody would notice the difference. Immersed in this society? What the heck does that even mean? To make a blanket statement about stars when Bryce Harper is the biggest star in baseball and is on the verge of changing the future of the sport, but I guess nobody cares about him either because Washington's attendance isn't stellar so far either. And nobody on the Northside cares about Arrieta and Bryant at all...either.

 

3.) You fail to mention that the weather in 2016 has been terrible and 2015 Opening series was absolutely perfect weather. Why didn't you mention that? The opening series had 66 degrees for a Friday opening day, 72 degrees for Saturday day game and 71 degrees for a discounted Sunday game. But hey, that doesn't fit your narrative, so why would that context matter?

 

Nor does the context of the White Sox having one of the five best starts in all of baseball this year, versus having one of the worst last year I suppose?

 

5.) 1 Saturday game in each season. 2015 was 40 degrees warmer and drew 2.1K more.

6.) 1 Monday night game in each season. 2016 was 20 degrees warmer and drew 1.6K more. (because all of those fans really love to see the Cleveland Indians 19 times per season versus Trout or Pujols for a single series once a year)

 

7.) So for each of your context-lacking, extraneous 6 game samples (which you deem sufficient enough to make a post about it), there a Friday Opening Day, Saturday day game, a Monday night and a Tuesday night. Two differences in sample: 2015 has a warm Sunday instead of a Thursday day game. Wednesday game was played at night in 2015 vs. during the day in 2016.

8.) In 2015, the Sox played the Wednesday game at night when people aren't working and in 2016 they played during the day. The 2015 game outdrew the 2016 game by 1.6K.

 

If they didn't think they could draw nearly as well or better on that Wednesday game, why would they even bother scheduling it at that time? Just as a favor to the two teams to play in better weather? Plus, someone mentioned it was scheduled to allow students in the Chicagoland to attend the game because of their spring break.

 

9.) The sixth game, and the most significant detail you're not including in your insufficient sample analysis is the most important. In 2015, one of the first six games was a Sunday with 71 degrees weather and partly cloudy. On the other side, in 2016, that sixth game is a Thursday day game. The difference in attendance for those two was 2015.) 23.1K - 2016.) 11.4K = 11.7K

 

In conclusion, your difference of 16,212 between 2015 & 2016, which you conclude to be the loss of season tickets holders, is 72.2% attributable to the difference of one game in the six game sample.

 

Having Sunday 1:10 game in perfect weather vs. a Thursday 1:10 game = 11.7K

Having a 40 degree temperature difference in Saturday games = 2.1K

Having a night game on Wednesday instead of a day game = 1.6K

 

For fair measures, the projections of the White Sox, Adam LaRoche's contract and "Fan Cost index" have nothing to do with attendance and had no place in the OP. Welcome back Caulfield.

 

Apparently it's too difficult to mention these concepts together, so there should be five separate threads, right? The average amount of revenue generated per person who attends a game is completely irrelevant to the White Sox and should be separated from the concept of attendance? And what are "fair measures" exactly? Like a politician when he says one thing when he means the exact opposite?

 

It's not at all relevant that the White Sox are theoretically going to lose half of the money they were saving by LaRoche not playing? How does that make any sense when the entire justification for signing Melky Cabrera last year was the uptick in season ticket packages that was registered after the Robertson and LaRoche moves?

 

I've been following the White Sox since well before you were born and would be willing to bet any amount of money that the season ticket sales are down at least 2,000 if not closer to 3,000 (compared to last year).

Edited April 22, 2016 by caulfield12

[bmags]

Before this goes any further, I'd like to place my preference to please not add another color to the responses. This is like having to dig through the worst company email chain ever.

[Iwritecode]

B.) No school in Chicago was on Spring Break this week. Not UIC, DePaul, Northwestern, Loyala, Roosevelt or Robert Morris College. Maybe Chicago St. was?

 

The entire CPS is on spring break.

 

See page 21.

 

[Kyyle23]

 

Before this goes any further, I'd like to place my preference to please not add another color to the responses. This is like having to dig through the worst company email chain ever.

 

bmags, you should live a little. color is the spice of thread life

[Y2Jimmy0]

I mean it is kind of embarrassing. Sox fans suck though. Nobody should be surprised.

[flavum]

The Sox organization sucks, not the few fans they have.

[fathom]

Sox have to show they can be contenders this year to draw some buzz in the city over the summer. We all know it's a Hawks/Cubs town right now, as I'm sure the walk-up crowds won't do much to impact an attendance that is already suffering from poor season ticket sales (we know it has to be poor because there wasn't a single fluff article this offseason saying how ticket sales have been good).

[Y2Jimmy0]

Sox have to show they can be contenders this year to draw some buzz in the city over the summer. We all know it's a Hawks/Cubs town right now, as I'm sure the walk-up crowds won't do much to impact an attendance that is already suffering from poor season ticket sales (we know it has to be poor because there wasn't a single fluff article this offseason saying how ticket sales have been good).

 

 

Tickets on stub hub are super cheap so I think the season ticket sales are probably alright. That's a good indicator. When the ST base is low, tickets on secondary market sites are usually higher.

[Y2Jimmy0]

This is a ridiculous line of thought. (Gee, thanks!)

 

1.) You think you can take an the total tickets from the first six games of the last two seasons, take the difference and conclude it to be the loss in season ticket base? You know nothing about their internal numbers (By all means, since you have the inside connections, why don't you get a quote directly from Brooks Boyer or someone in the ticket office that contradicts my assertion...that the interest and sales are actually up this year compared to last...) nor do you understand statistics or how attendance works. Very mature.

 

********Never claimed to have inside information on this. Appreciate ad hominems though. Some people like to talk on things they don't know about, I am not one of them.

 

2.) You think people in Chicago are coming out to see Trout and Pujols? This isn't LeBron in the NBA. Nobody cares about stars in the post steroid era. But that's probably something you don't understand unless immersed in this society, so I'll give you a pass on that.

 

By this argument, signing superstars doesn't or shouldn't matter, but nor would a complete rebuild, either, because nobody would notice the difference. Immersed in this society? What the heck does that even mean? To make a blanket statement about stars when Bryce Harper is the biggest star in baseball and is on the verge of changing the future of the sport, but I guess nobody cares about him either because Washington's attendance isn't stellar so far either. And nobody on the Northside cares about Arrieta and Bryant at all...either.

********Again, nobody comes out to see Mike Trout. This isn't even my opinion. This is basically accepted. You don't live here and understand how moderate fans view the game. You can only pick up so much from the KC Chronicle or whatever newspaper you pump here.

 

3.) You fail to mention that the weather in 2016 has been terrible and 2015 Opening series was absolutely perfect weather. Why didn't you mention that? The opening series had 66 degrees for a Friday opening day, 72 degrees for Saturday day game and 71 degrees for a discounted Sunday game. But hey, that doesn't fit your narrative, so why would that context matter?

 

Nor does the context of the White Sox having one of the five best starts in all of baseball this year, versus having one of the worst last year I suppose?

********How did attendance from 2011-2012 go with a better team? White Sox fans don't come out because of a good couple weeks.

 

5.) 1 Saturday game in each season. 2015 was 40 degrees warmer and drew 2.1K more.

6.) 1 Monday night game in each season. 2016 was 20 degrees warmer and drew 1.6K more. (because all of those fans really love to see the Cleveland Indians 19 times per season versus Trout or Pujols for a single series once a year)

 

******Your point here doesn't even help your point. In fact, it goes against it. [/color]

 

7.) So for each of your context-lacking, extraneous 6 game samples (which you deem sufficient enough to make a post about it), there a Friday Opening Day, Saturday day game, a Monday night and a Tuesday night. Two differences in sample: 2015 has a warm Sunday instead of a Thursday day game. Wednesday game was played at night in 2015 vs. during the day in 2016.

 

******You skipped commenting on this one because it nullified your whole point. But why recognize it if it doesn't fit your theory?

8.) In 2015, the Sox played the Wednesday game at night when people aren't working and in 2016 they played during the day. The 2015 game outdrew the 2016 game by 1.6K.

 

If they didn't think they could draw nearly as well or better on that Wednesday game, why would they even bother scheduling it at that time? Just as a favor to the two teams to play in better weather? Plus, someone mentioned it was scheduled to allow students in the Chicagoland to attend the game because of their spring break.

 

******This one is pretty funny response. A.) The Sox don't make the schedule. B.) No school in Chicago was on Spring Break this week. Not UIC, DePaul, Northwestern, Loyala, Roosevelt or Robert Morris College. Maybe Chicago St. was?

9.) The sixth game, and the most significant detail you're not including in your insufficient sample analysis is the most important. In 2015, one of the first six games was a Sunday with 71 degrees weather and partly cloudy. On the other side, in 2016, that sixth game is a Thursday day game. The difference in attendance for those two was 2015.) 23.1K - 2016.) 11.4K = 11.7K

 

*******Again, ignore what kicks a hole in your narrative.

 

In conclusion, your difference of 16,212 between 2015 & 2016, which you conclude to be the loss of season tickets holders, is 72.2% attributable to the difference of one game in the six game sample.

 

Having Sunday 1:10 game in perfect weather vs. a Thursday 1:10 game = 11.7K

Having a 40 degree temperature difference in Saturday games = 2.1K

Having a night game on Wednesday instead of a day game = 1.6K

 

For fair measures, the projections of the White Sox, Adam LaRoche's contract and "Fan Cost index" have nothing to do with attendance and had no place in the OP. Welcome back Caulfield.

 

Apparently it's too difficult to mention these concepts together, so there should be five separate threads, right? The average amount of revenue generated per person who attends a game is completely irrelevant to the White Sox and should be separated from the concept of attendance? And what are "fair measures" exactly? Like a politician when he says one thing when he means the exact opposite?

 

It's not at all relevant that the White Sox are theoretically going to lose half of the money they were saving by LaRoche not playing? How does that make any sense when the entire justification for signing Melky Cabrera last year was the uptick in season ticket packages that was registered after the Robertson and LaRoche moves?

 

I've been following the White Sox since well before you were born and would be willing to bet any amount of money that the season ticket sales are down at least 2,000 if not closer to 3,000 (compared to last year).

 

*******No, it's not too difficult to mention those concepts together. You have almost 40,000 posts indicating the contrary. You're the only person that could turn a thread about attendance, into a thread about the "fan cost index" (I have never heard the fans in America, you know, the ones who go to the games, mention this metric), into a thread about Adam LaRoche not playing an into a probe into whether Melky/Robertson have contracts that are justified. So no it's "too difficult to mention" irrelevant tertiary details. It's just something you do and no one else does. That's why when you're the most recent poster in a thread, people will skip over that thread. Because they don't care to read about 1.) What Kenny Williams did as a player 2.) What the OPS of the Sox is since Joe Crede/Aaron Rowand/Timo Perez left 3.)What Dayton Moore said to Eric Hosmer 4.) some Reinsdorf/Boyer conspiracy theory all in one post. It's tangential, it's hard to read, the logic (if any) is hard to follow and they'd prefer to read about the topic at hand.

 

Brian, the fact that the Sox played the Angels (Trout) last week is one of the main reasons why I went actually. I'm not most people though. I'll go see Bryce Harper in a few weeks as well.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Why did those people leave? There were upgraded to the 100 level for free and at that point, they could literally sit anywhere they wanted. I was at that game.

I was there too. We were waiting outside the gates for just about 2 hours, so I'm sure there were thousands of people that didn't want to stand out there for that long, so they just left. Even when they let us in, they "upgraded" us to seats in the shade when it was like 30 degrees out in the sun lol, so naturally we were freezing. We ended up sitting in the sunny part in the outfield, but the whole experience was a clown show. I still had a good time though

[Y2Jimmy0]

I was there too. We were waiting outside the gates for just about 2 hours, so I'm sure there were thousands of people that didn't want to stand out there for that long, so they just left. Even when they let us in, they "upgraded" us to seats in the shade when it was like 30 degrees out in the sun lol, so naturally we were freezing. We ended up sitting in the sunny part in the outfield, but the whole experience was a clown show. I still had a good time though

 

 

We had OF seats and got inside by the 2nd inning. They gave us vouchers for an April/May game though on the way out and I used it Monday

[Princess Dye]

Just walked in here -- now taking a look around, I'm tiptoeing out silently...

[bmags]

I also have bought tickets to angel games to see Trout. Would go to see Harper and Correa, got to see LIndor already.