Cleveland outdrew us? Attendance down 13% so far

[fathom]

I didn't realize making this thread constituted making fun of the fans...is that what it really is?

 

There's also a difference for Pirates' fans because they know they have two better opportunities to see the Cubs later in the season since they are divisional rivals.

 

At any rate, the Orioles' attendance is also way down and they actually spent quite a bit of money in the offseason, have been to the playoffs much more recently, and got off to a similar start record-wiseto the White Sox.

 

Like it or not, with the media focusing so much on the Cubs and their revenue machine now, it's going to be even more of a topic of comparison because it's the one profound and obvious difference between the two organizations at the current time...and a hot topic on social media as well and presumably sports talk radio in Chicago.

 

The White Sox don't exist according to Chicago sports talk radio

[Dick Allen]

I didn't realize making this thread constituted making fun of the fans...is that what it really is?

 

There's also a difference for Pirates' fans because they know they have two better opportunities to see the Cubs later in the season since they are divisional rivals.

 

At any rate, the Orioles' attendance is also way down and they actually spent quite a bit of money in the offseason, have been to the playoffs much more recently, and got off to a similar start record-wiseto the White Sox.

 

Like it or not, with the media focusing so much on the Cubs and their revenue machine now, it's going to be even more of a topic of comparison because it's the one profound and obvious difference between the two organizations at the current time...and a hot topic on social media as well and presumably sports talk radio in Chicago.

Other than your posts, do you have any links as to where this is becoming a huge topic? People have been fully aware for years the Cubs outdraw the White Sox even on their worst days vs. the White Sox best.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

I'm also not sure if I was a Pirates' fan that I would be too excited by the time the final game in the series (during the day, no less) rolled around to watch my favorite team get rolled over yet again.

 

It's got to be terribly frustrating to achieve that level of success and yet be completely overshadowed by the Cardinals and now the Cubs...and then be mostly limited to wild card game appearances (along with feeling "when will it be our turn"?).

 

It's a little bit reminiscent of the early 90's teams with Bonds and Bonilla and Drabek that were so good but just couldn't manage to put it all together in the postseason.

 

Yes, more excuses. Like Braves' fans for most of the second half of their playoff run of 14 consecutive years or whatever that incredible streak was...

[caulfield12]

Other than your posts, do you have any links as to where this is becoming a huge topic? People have been fully aware for years the Cubs outdraw the White Sox even on their worst days vs. the White Sox best.

 

 

Lol.

 

Follow the social media feature during an ESPN.com gamecast.

 

Mentioned by both Chicago and Boston writers/reporters numerous times.

 

However, there's pretty much zero incentive to "prove" anything since the game threads are now supposed to filled with positivity according to what Rabbit wrote last night.

 

I know you saw that. And, if I proved it, you would just turn around and use it as justification to complain more about my posting it. Or you would argue that nothing constitutes proof, everything is subjective or based in our perceptions of glass half filled or half emptyness. So what's the point???

[Dick Allen]

Lol.

 

Follow the social media feature during an ESPN.com gamecast.

 

Mentioned by both Chicago and Boston writers/reporters numerous times.

 

However, there's pretty much zero incentive to "prove" anything since the game threads are now supposed to filled with positivity according to what Rabbit wrote last night.

 

I know you saw that. And, if I proved it, you would just turn around and use it as justification to complain more about my posting it. Or you would argue that nothing constitutes proof, everything is subjective or based in our perceptions of glass half filled or half emptyness. So what's the point???

 

19-9, bring up the attendance.

 

Why are you so concerned about the attendance? Why don't you buy some tickets and donate them to a YMCA or something. It will help a couple of causes. Good for kids and good for attendance.

[Texsox]

19-9, bring up the attendance.

 

Why are you so concerned about the attendance? Why don't you buy some tickets and donate them to a YMCA or something. It will help a couple of causes. Good for kids and good for attendance.

You know those YMCA kids, they will sell the tickets to buy drugs.

[Thad Bosley]

How many people do you think hold 35 year grudges against a product?

I don't know. Go ask someone who is holding such a grudge.

[shakes]

I didn't realize making this thread constituted making fun of the fans...is that what it really is?

 

There's also a difference for Pirates' fans because they know they have two better opportunities to see the Cubs later in the season since they are divisional rivals.

 

At any rate, the Orioles' attendance is also way down and they actually spent quite a bit of money in the offseason, have been to the playoffs much more recently, and got off to a similar start record-wiseto the White Sox.

 

Like it or not, with the media focusing so much on the Cubs and their revenue machine now, it's going to be even more of a topic of comparison because it's the one profound and obvious difference between the two organizations at the current time...and a hot topic on social media as well and presumably sports talk radio in Chicago.

 

The fact is the Sox fanbase is similar to most fanbases. They win attendance goes up, they have long periods of losing, you need to earn the fans back. It's cold, less people go. Secondary ticket markets eat into walkup sales.

 

The outlier is the Cubs, not the Sox. But again this has been the same story for a long time. Anybody expecting the Sox fanbase to act differently, all of a sudden, is just creating a strawman that seems to live in perpetuity on this site for a handful of posters.

[aryzner]

I feel like this dead horse has been beaten so much that you can't even recognize it was a horse anymore.

Edited May 5, 2016 by aryzner

[Kyyle23]

I feel like this dead horse has been beaten so much that you can't even recognize it was a horse anymore.

 

believe me, us mods and admins have been trying to send it to the glue factory for years

[SCCWS]

believe me, us mods and admins have been trying to send it to the glue factory for years

 

Why??? This thread has over 10 pages so a lot of fans have an opinion on it. Isn't that the point of a message board?? Being a long time White Sox diehard, I do find it interesting. Since I live over 1,200 miles away I rarely see a Sox game live. So I am always wondering what happened to the White Sox fan base.

[southsider2k5]

I don't know. Go ask someone who is holding such a grudge.

 

That's why I asked you, Mr. 35 years.

[southsider2k5]

Why??? This thread has over 10 pages so a lot of fans have an opinion on it. Isn't that the point of a message board?? Being a long time White Sox diehard, I do find it interesting. Since I live over 1,200 miles away I rarely see a Sox game live. So I am always wondering what happened to the White Sox fan base.

 

They don't like hearing it, but the White Sox are on the further end of the Bandwagon scale. Its out there, but they need their list of demands met before they might show up.

[Kyyle23]

Why??? This thread has over 10 pages so a lot of fans have an opinion on it. Isn't that the point of a message board?? Being a long time White Sox diehard, I do find it interesting. Since I live over 1,200 miles away I rarely see a Sox game live. So I am always wondering what happened to the White Sox fan base.

 

First off, it was a Play on words, just a joke. Second off, there is nothing in this thread I haven't read before.

 

We haven't deleted these threads though

[Thad Bosley]

That's why I asked you, Mr. 35 years.

Sorry, not following. 35 years?

[caulfield12]

Thad Bosley bringing some humour to this thread.

 

Much needed when you're at the 3 hour mark with 3 more innings left to go.

 

 

 

At any rate, attendance threads=page views and drives revenue/s into the stratosphere for SoxTalk, haha. Those Silicon Valley entrepreneurs selling the banner ads/links should be putting a check in the mail for helping their site numbers.

 

In all seriousness, it's kind of like our version of traffic accidents or Faces of Death videos.

Edited May 6, 2016 by caulfield12

[Condor13]

Offense brings people to the ballpark. Sox have ZERO offense so people don't go to games. Offense also is needed to win games bc pitching will regress. Sox need a big bat and soon to get people in the seats and to win games.

[caulfield12]

Condor,

 

That's what Kenny Williams believed for a long, long time. It was the foundation of the 2000-2004 teams. 2005 proved the need for quality depth of starting pitching (McCarthy down the stretch) as well as sound defense and fundamentals/execution...as well as the ability to manufacture runs the first half of the season in particular before relying on the 3 run homer more late in the season.

 

Now whether some MIT or Cal Tech quant could prove there's an actual attendance difference between teams that are high-scoring offenses (but play close games overall, around .500ish) and that these so-so teams with more exciting offensive firepower are equaling or outdrawing the 85-77 or 86-76 White Sox with top 25% pitching/defense and bottom 33% offense, you'd have something.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Attendance jumped way up for the Cinco de Mayo promotion, 20,126 in the house.

 

Seemingly, that promotion (and/or better weather) was worth roughly a 35% increase in the numbers.

[Texsox]

There is a lot more competition for people's entertainment dollars which is shrinking. There is a reason that the phrase let's go to a baseball game and chill is never trending.

[Dunt]

I feel like this dead horse has been beaten so much that you can't even recognize it was a horse anymore.

 

[SI1020]

Why??? This thread has over 10 pages so a lot of fans have an opinion on it. Isn't that the point of a message board?? Being a long time White Sox diehard, I do find it interesting. Since I live over 1,200 miles away I rarely see a Sox game live. So I am always wondering what happened to the White Sox fan base.

I'll try since I'm ancient and love the subject of history. About five decades ago Bill Veeck said that all things being equal Chicago would normally be partial to the Cubs. This was at the tail end of the go go era, in which the Sox had 17 straight winning seasons, beat the Cubs in attendance all but one of those years, and ruled the sports pages. Sports writers like John Carmichael, Warren Brown and Bill Gleason made sure the Sox got strong if not always uncritical press. That began to change after 1967. The Sox quit winning and were no longer on WGN. Coincidentally the Cubs began a 6 season streak of winning which included the epic collapse of 1969. Writers like Rick Talley of the old Chicago Today and others were openly fawning towards the Cubs and correspondingly hostile to the Chicago White Sox. Starting in 1984 the tide really began to change and I attribute that to the Tribune Company buying the Cubs in 1981. Everything was Cubs Cubs Cubs and little kids in places like Enid, Oklahoma and Bowling Green, Kentucky would come home from school and finds the Cubs game on TV. This is when the Sox really lost the popularity battle not only on their home ground but nationally as well. The changing demographics of the Chicago area favored the Cubs too. Additionally places like NW Indiana and SW Michigan, that were definitely Sox territory in the go go era no longer were. I know this is an extremely capsulized look at the issue but the Cubs have decisively won on the popularity front. When is the last year the Sox beat the Cubs in attendance? The Cubs are far more popular now, they can get 3 million or so to come to the park in years that they stink. The Chicago area is not the population and jobs mecca it once was and I don't think that it's etched in stone that the Sox will always and forever remain in Chicago.

[caulfield12]

The answer to your question is the first 3-4 seasons of the new stadium, early 90's.

 

Then things started to really go south the second half of the 90's until they became at least sort of relevant again in 2000.

[caulfield12]

28,000+

 

19,328 per game average...

 

Now 27th in the majors again (passed OAK)...and currently only trailing the surprising Orioles by about 1,200 per game.

 

 

Should catch Miami, Cincinnati and Minnesota at some point in May or June. One has a feeling Philly and ATL will slide back, too.

 

Interestingly, the Nationals are "only" 20th in attendance at 26,144 per game...seems weird that the Orioles and Nats are both among the best teams in their divisions in the early going and both struggling in that same geographic market. Weather? Hard to figure, with arguably the best or 2nd best player in the game in Harper.

 

 

KC 9th, Detroit 13th, Minnesota 23rd, Cleveland 30th (and almost 2,000 lower per game than TB).

Edited May 8, 2016 by caulfield12

[greg775]

I'll try since I'm ancient and love the subject of history. About five decades ago Bill Veeck said that all things being equal Chicago would normally be partial to the Cubs. This was at the tail end of the go go era, in which the Sox had 17 straight winning seasons, beat the Cubs in attendance all but one of those years, and ruled the sports pages. Sports writers like John Carmichael, Warren Brown and Bill Gleason made sure the Sox got strong if not always uncritical press. That began to change after 1967. The Sox quit winning and were no longer on WGN. Coincidentally the Cubs began a 6 season streak of winning which included the epic collapse of 1969. Writers like Rick Talley of the old Chicago Today and others were openly fawning towards the Cubs and correspondingly hostile to the Chicago White Sox. Starting in 1984 the tide really began to change and I attribute that to the Tribune Company buying the Cubs in 1981. Everything was Cubs Cubs Cubs and little kids in places like Enid, Oklahoma and Bowling Green, Kentucky would come home from school and finds the Cubs game on TV. This is when the Sox really lost the popularity battle not only on their home ground but nationally as well. The changing demographics of the Chicago area favored the Cubs too. Additionally places like NW Indiana and SW Michigan, that were definitely Sox territory in the go go era no longer were. I know this is an extremely capsulized look at the issue but the Cubs have decisively won on the popularity front. When is the last year the Sox beat the Cubs in attendance? The Cubs are far more popular now, they can get 3 million or so to come to the park in years that they stink. The Chicago area is not the population and jobs mecca it once was and I don't think that it's etched in stone that the Sox will always and forever remain in Chicago.

If the Sox decide to ever move, or have to move because of people leaving the city in droves, I hope they consider the Western suburbs of Chicago. It's a very different vibe out there and the Sox would sell out every game I betcha in Naperville or Schaumburg or Lisle, somewhere like that. Build some kind of palace, 8th wonder of the world in the suburbs and get some rich Chicago company to build it and embrace it.

Only place I'd support the Sox besides Chicago and the Western Suburbs is Vegas. Otherwise they'd be dead to me. However, they'd probably build an indoor stadium in Vegas cause of the temps and I hate indoor baseball. The Sox would take suburbia by storm, however. Do you agree?

Edited May 8, 2016 by greg775