Jason >>>>>>>>>>> Hawk

[greg775]

I know it's straying off topic from Jason vs. Hawk, but I want to chime in on some of the Cubs vs Sox talk and pose a question I have been pondering recently.

 

In the event that Michael Jordan was actually awesome at baseball and played his career out on the White Sox, do you think he would have heavily influenced fan interest towards the Sox? Do you think he would have made no impact, brought it close to 50/50, or turn it into a Sox town?

 

If he was awesome? Probably. He probably would have played 10-15 years with the Sox if he was awesome. BTW, that ESPN show on Jordan's baseball career was awesome. He actually turned himself into a pretty good baseball player. He was stealing bases that final year and he was learning how to turn on his pitch and drive it. He had a few home runs. He became a pretty average baseball player. I remember Francona or somebody saying he was on track to be a big leaguer.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, but he also hit around .200 and didn't have a ton of XB power for someone with his frame...he was more of a singles hitter.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register...id=jordan001mic

 

Thrown out 18 times (30 steals)...556 OPS wouldn't get a regular minor league a sniff of the majors. Only a .266 SLG percentage, to his credit, he had 51 walks and struck out 114 times, which isn't too bad considering how rusty he was not playing baseball since the early 1980's.

[Thad Bosley]

The facts are right there in front of you. The numbers don't support your theory, at all. Your "facts" are reliant on the opinion of someone. My are based on real life actual numbers. Attendance fell during the last half of Caray's time with the White Sox by about 25%.

LOL! I must admit, this really is one of your funnier efforts to try and defend the indefensible, and all just to be contrarian on your part. Seriously, you must be on the dole for Reinsdorf to go on these fanciful yet highly ridiculous tangents you do to try and defend that buffoon. But you do and therefore we just have to deal with it, and continually just call out its silliness.

 

Attendance tripled from the time Harry Caray came to the Sox and when he left. It increased by 68% just after his first year and was tripled by the end of his second. He accomplished all of this - and again, it was explicitly what he was brought into do - with the weakest of tools to support him. He was broadcasting initially on a tiny, 5,000 watt radio station in LaGrange, IL when he first got to town, and then the best he got was a UHF TV station of all things, Channel 44. HARRY CARAY TRIPLED WHITE SOX ATTENDANCE WITH THE POOREST POSSIBLE MEDIA EXPOSURE AT HIS DISPOSAL.

 

Bill Veeck, however, managed to get the team on WGN for 1981 before he sold the team. Then Harry had the power of the superstation and it's mega-exposure with which to sell the White Sox experience. And he did so brilliantly during the strike-shortened 1981 season, resulting in the highest TV ratings ever for the Sox at that time.

 

But then the genius owners of the Sox committed what renowned White Sox historian Richard Lindberg (or as renowned Reinsdorf apologist SS2K5 refers to just as "someone") referred to as a "mistake" by letting Caray go to the Cubs, where he took that national exposure on WGN to make both he and the Cubs a household name. The Cubs haven't looked back since. HARRY CARAY TOOK THE CUBS FROM HAVING THE SAME KIND OF ATTENDANCE ISSUES AS THE SOX TO BEING THE NATIONAL PHENOMENON THEY ARE TODAY, ALL DUE TO HIS ABILITY TO SELL THE PRODUCT ON SUPERSTATION WGN. That could have and should have been the Sox. It's that simple.

 

But our genius owners...SportsVision...and you know the rest.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Dick Allen]

LOL! I must admit, this really is one of your funnier efforts to try and defend the indefensible, and all just to be contrarian on your part. Seriously, you must be on the dole for Reinsdorf to go on these fanciful yet highly ridiculous tangents you do to try and defend that buffoon. But you do and therefore we just have to deal with it, and continually just call out its silliness.

 

Attendance tripled from the time Harry Caray came to the Sox and when he left. It increased by 68% just after his first year and was tripled by the end of his second. He accomplished all of this - and again, it was explicitly what he was brought into do - with the weakest of tools to support him. He was broadcasting initially on a tiny, 5,000 watt radio station in LaGrange, IL when he first got to town, and then the best he got was a UHF TV station of all things, Channel 44. HARRY CARAY TRIPLED WHITE SOX ATTENDANCE WITH THE POOREST POSSIBLE MEDIA EXPOSURE AT HIS DISPOSAL.

 

Bill Veeck, however, managed to get the team on WGN for 1981 before he sold the team. Then Harry had the power of the superstation and it's mega-exposure with which to sell the White Sox experience. And he did so brilliantly during the strike-shortened 1981 season, resulting in the highest TV ratings ever for the Sox at that time.

 

But then the genius owners of the Sox committed what renowned White Sox historian Richard Lindberg (or as renowned Reinsdorf apologist SS2K5 refers to just as "someone") referred to as a "mistake" by letting Caray go to the Cubs, where he took that national exposure on WGN to make both he and the Cubs a household name. The Cubs haven't looked back since. HARRY CARAY TOOK THE CUBS FROM HAVING THE SAME KIND OF ATTENDANCE ISSUES AS THE SOX TO BEING THE NATIONAL PHENOMENON THEY ARE TODAY, ALL DUE TO HIS ABILITY TO SELL THE PRODUCT ON SUPERSTATION WGN. That could have and should have been the Sox. It's that simple.

 

But our genius owners...SportsVision...and you know the rest.

Harry Caray went to the Cubs in 1982.

 

1982, 1983, 1984 with Harry on the superstation and Sportsvision, you know the rest, the White Sox outdrew the Cubs. Explain.

Please also explain why the Cubs attendance didn't dip after his death, I believe it actually went higher, and when WGN was no longer broadcasting their games nationally.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Dick Allen

[WBWSF]

Sportsvision was ahead of its time. It failed because the Chicagoland area was not wired for cable at the time. Sportsvision should have been postponed until the area was wired for cable.

[southsider2k5]

LOL! I must admit, this really is one of your funnier efforts to try and defend the indefensible, and all just to be contrarian on your part. Seriously, you must be on the dole for Reinsdorf to go on these fanciful yet highly ridiculous tangents you do to try and defend that buffoon. But you do and therefore we just have to deal with it, and continually just call out its silliness.

 

Attendance tripled from the time Harry Caray came to the Sox and when he left. It increased by 68% just after his first year and was tripled by the end of his second. He accomplished all of this - and again, it was explicitly what he was brought into do - with the weakest of tools to support him. He was broadcasting initially on a tiny, 5,000 watt radio station in LaGrange, IL when he first got to town, and then the best he got was a UHF TV station of all things, Channel 44. HARRY CARAY TRIPLED WHITE SOX ATTENDANCE WITH THE POOREST POSSIBLE MEDIA EXPOSURE AT HIS DISPOSAL.

 

Bill Veeck, however, managed to get the team on WGN for 1981 before he sold the team. Then Harry had the power of the superstation and it's mega-exposure with which to sell the White Sox experience. And he did so brilliantly during the strike-shortened 1981 season, resulting in the highest TV ratings ever for the Sox at that time.

 

But then the genius owners of the Sox committed what renowned White Sox historian Richard Lindberg (or as renowned Reinsdorf apologist SS2K5 refers to just as "someone") referred to as a "mistake" by letting Caray go to the Cubs, where he took that national exposure on WGN to make both he and the Cubs a household name. The Cubs haven't looked back since. HARRY CARAY TOOK THE CUBS FROM HAVING THE SAME KIND OF ATTENDANCE ISSUES AS THE SOX TO BEING THE NATIONAL PHENOMENON THEY ARE TODAY, ALL DUE TO HIS ABILITY TO SELL THE PRODUCT ON SUPERSTATION WGN. That could have and should have been the Sox. It's that simple.

 

But our genius owners...SportsVision...and you know the rest.

 

You have opinions, I have actual numbers. I am not sure where you got your numbers, but the figures you are quoting here are not at all right. Even if you want to give Caray the credit, and not the team on the field, you are ignoring the fact that the longer he was with the Sox, attendance wasn't still going up. It was down a full 25% off of its peak. So if you are right, and attendance depended on him, and not the team, he must have been losing the effect, because numbers were down a full 400,000 fans over his last full four years here, 700k if you include 1981.

 

Also, if you want to key attendance off of who is in the booth, Ken Harrelson must be a freaking Sox fan magnet, because since he started with the Sox, he tripled their attendance at its peak, pushing it from just under a million when he started, to almost 3 million at its peak. Even last year it was still at double what it started at. By your silly standard, Harrelson > Caray, by a mile.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Sportsvision was ahead of its time. It failed because the Chicagoland area was not wired for cable at the time. Sportsvision should have been postponed until the area was wired for cable.

Sportsvision was a failure because it was a dumb idea for the time. It cost about as much as cable TV does today in adjusted dollars but offered only one part time channel that needed special antenna and converter box installed just to watch some of one team's baseball games.

 

 

[caulfield12]

You have opinions, I have actual numbers. I am not sure where you got your numbers, but the figures you are quoting here are not at all right. Even if you want to give Caray the credit, and not the team on the field, you are ignoring the fact that the longer he was with the Sox, attendance wasn't still going up. It was down a full 25% off of its peak. So if you are right, and attendance depended on him, and not the team, he must have been losing the effect, because numbers were down a full 400,000 fans over his last full four years here, 700k if you include 1981.

 

Also, if you want to key attendance off of who is in the booth, Ken Harrelson must be a freaking Sox fan magnet, because since he started with the Sox, he tripled their attendance at its peak, pushing it from just under a million when he started, to almost 3 million at its peak. Even last year it was still at double what it started at. By your silly standard, Harrelson > Caray, by a mile.

 

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/wsoxatte.shtml

 

 

 

If you look at 1971-1981, there is a 30-35% increase over that time period in attendance. 1981, obviously the numbers were down because of the strike, I think you must have forgotten about that. (You're comparing everything back to 1977 onwards, the most important aspect is comparing the 1960's, especially the last three years before Harry Caray started with the Sox, which was 1968-1970).

 

 

Even in the 1959 World Series year, the Sox were only a 1.423 million and then 1.6+ million getting the Series bounce. That was their "modern" peak in attendance at that time.

 

Look at 1966-1970. The White Sox were at less than 50% the average league attendance in 1969 and 1970 (once again, look at the numbers in Chicago in 1968-1970)...the year before Harry Caray started, the White Sox AVERAGED 6,115 fans per game.

 

That went up almost 70% the first year Harry Caray was there.

 

In general, there was an upward trend of attendance all those seasons from 1971-1981 (1975 was an exception).

 

If you want to attribute all of it to Caray, then obvious the 1977 Southside Hitmen might disagree with you. That was the peak of the Harry years. From 1979-81, it was a below average attendance draw, but still MUCH MUCH better than the late 60's. Of course, the records of the 1979-1981 teams were pretty pedestrian, so no surprise to see the attendance shrinking.

 

Even in the year where they competed in the final days of the season (1967), they only average 12,168 fans per game.

 

 

 

Both arguments have points, but the main one is/was how badly the White Sox were doing from 1968-1970 (you could argue that's the time the team could/should have moved from a financial standpoint to Milwaukee)...

Edited May 15, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

So the reason the Sox don't draw well and have had only one exciting season under JR ownership isn't because they haven't had sustained success and multiple playoff appearances back to back, it is because JR let Harry go to the Cubs and couldn't get the Tribune Company who also owned the Cubs to put all the Sox games on WGN. Thad Bosley is 'shrooming again. Someone needs to let him know Harry has been dead for 18 years.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Bananarchy]

LOL! I must admit, this really is one of your funnier efforts to try and defend the indefensible, and all just to be contrarian on your part. Seriously, you must be on the dole for Reinsdorf to go on these fanciful yet highly ridiculous tangents you do to try and defend that buffoon. But you do and therefore we just have to deal with it, and continually just call out its silliness.

 

Attendance tripled from the time Harry Caray came to the Sox and when he left. It increased by 68% just after his first year and was tripled by the end of his second. He accomplished all of this - and again, it was explicitly what he was brought into do - with the weakest of tools to support him. He was broadcasting initially on a tiny, 5,000 watt radio station in LaGrange, IL when he first got to town, and then the best he got was a UHF TV station of all things, Channel 44. HARRY CARAY TRIPLED WHITE SOX ATTENDANCE WITH THE POOREST POSSIBLE MEDIA EXPOSURE AT HIS DISPOSAL.

 

Bill Veeck, however, managed to get the team on WGN for 1981 before he sold the team. Then Harry had the power of the superstation and it's mega-exposure with which to sell the White Sox experience. And he did so brilliantly during the strike-shortened 1981 season, resulting in the highest TV ratings ever for the Sox at that time.

 

But then the genius owners of the Sox committed what renowned White Sox historian Richard Lindberg (or as renowned Reinsdorf apologist SS2K5 refers to just as "someone") referred to as a "mistake" by letting Caray go to the Cubs, where he took that national exposure on WGN to make both he and the Cubs a household name. The Cubs haven't looked back since. HARRY CARAY TOOK THE CUBS FROM HAVING THE SAME KIND OF ATTENDANCE ISSUES AS THE SOX TO BEING THE NATIONAL PHENOMENON THEY ARE TODAY, ALL DUE TO HIS ABILITY TO SELL THE PRODUCT ON SUPERSTATION WGN. That could have and should have been the Sox. It's that simple.

 

But our genius owners...SportsVision...and you know the rest.

This post assumes that absolutely everything that happened in Chicago baseball had to do with Harry Caray, which could not be further from the truth.

[SI1020]

This post assumes that absolutely everything that happened in Chicago baseball had to do with Harry Caray, which could not be further from the truth.

Of course it didn't but to say that Harry didn't help keep interest in the team a lot higher than it would have been is simply not accurate. In particular the team of Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall kept a lot of us fans interested enough to watch and listen on a regular basis. The Sox had winning seasons in 72 and 77 and for the most part were a dreadful team in the other years Harry was in the booth. Harry was an institution, a lightning rod, some didn't like him but tuned in anyway to see what outrageous thing he might say. More than anything Harry was a salesman. He could sell a baseball game or a brand of beer. His style of broadcasting would never fly today in our milquetoast PC world. He also had his faults which included a sometimes cruel streak, just like Hawk. Still, before he was corporately neutralized by the Cubs and then succumbed to health issues, he was one of the best baseball broadcasters in the history of the game, bar none. He did contribute to increased interest and attendance and the Sox did lose the battle with the Cubs after the Tribune company bought the lovable north siders. I tilt somewhat but not totally to Thad Bosley's point of view on this matter. I remember that era very well.

 

[LVSoxFan]

MUCH prefer the new guy. It's time for a new era.

[Lip Man 1]

f course it didn't but to say that Harry didn't help keep interest in the team a lot higher than it would have been is simply not accurate. In particular the team of Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall kept a lot of us fans interested enough to watch and listen on a regular basis. The Sox had winning seasons in 72 and 77 and for the most part were a dreadful team in the other years Harry was in the booth. Harry was an institution, a lightning rod, some didn't like him but tuned in anyway to see what outrageous thing he might say. More than anything Harry was a salesman. He could sell a baseball game or a brand of beer. His style of broadcasting would never fly today in our milquetoast PC world. He also had his faults which included a sometimes cruel streak, just like Hawk. Still, before he was corporately neutralized by the Cubs and then succumbed to health issues, he was one of the best baseball broadcasters in the history of the game, bar none. He did contribute to increased interest and attendance and the Sox did lose the battle with the Cubs after the Tribune company bought the lovable north siders. I tilt somewhat but not totally to Thad Bosley's point of view on this matter. I remember that era very well.

 

Historically much of what you say is completely accurate.

 

Mark

 

[greg775]

So the reason the Sox don't draw well and have had only one exciting season under JR ownership isn't because they haven't had sustained success and multiple playoff appearances back to back, it is because JR let Harry go to the Cubs and couldn't get the Tribune Company who also owned the Cubs to put all the Sox games on WGN. Thad Bosley is 'shrooming again. Someone needs to let him know Harry has been dead for 18 years.

Harry was known as an ass hole (not to the common fan, but to the bean counter types) and the Sox were glad to see him go. Unfortunately the common fan worships Harry, rightly so, and that destroyed the Sox. Harry going over to the Cubs was a major hit.

[Bananarchy]

Harry was known as an ass hole (not to the common fan, but to the bean counter types) and the Sox were glad to see him go. Unfortunately the common fan worships Harry, rightly so, and that destroyed the Sox. Harry going over to the Cubs was a major hit.

I feel like Harry was a piece of the a perfect storm on the north side. The "lovable losers", the old ballpark in that neighborhood, the stretch, and WGN. Regardless of where you were in the country, you could watch Cubs games. For a lifelong White Sox fan, I never really got it. Why cheer for a s*** product? But the Cubs accidentally captured all of it.

 

The White Sox, at the same time, had a crap TV deal, built a new (at the time awful) stadium in a less fun neighborhood. I never got Sportschannel as a kid, so I had to go to a friend's house or hope one of the WGN White Sox games was on when I could watch.

 

It's not hard to get why the two Chicago teams are where they are right now, but it's also not as simple as "this team had Harry Caray and this one didn't"

Edited May 16, 2016 by Deadpool

[greg775]

I feel like Harry was a piece of the a perfect storm on the north side. The "lovable losers", the old ballpark in that neighborhood, the stretch, and WGN. Regardless of where you were in the country, you could watch Cubs games. For a lifelong White Sox fan, I never really got it. Why cheer for a s*** product? But the Cubs accidentally captured all of it.

 

The White Sox, at the same time, had a crap TV deal, built a new (at the time awful) stadium in a less fun neighborhood. I never got Sportschannel as a kid, so I had to go to a friend's house or hope one of the WGN White Sox games was on when I could watch.

 

It's not hard to get why the two Chicago teams are where they are right now, but it's also not as simple as "this team had Harry Caray and this one didn't"

Good post.

If you, as one poster said, truly had to get a special antennae just for the channel the Sox were on, well that was suicide for the Sox right there. I'm surprised they are still in Chicago after a decision like that. Thank heaven newspapers were a big deal back then and radio was a big deal and they covered the Sox properly.

[Bananarchy]

Good post.

If you, as one poster said, truly had to get a special antennae just for the channel the Sox were on, well that was suicide for the Sox right there. I'm surprised they are still in Chicago after a decision like that. Thank heaven newspapers were a big deal back then and radio was a big deal and they covered the Sox properly.

Honestly, I'm not sure what we're arguing about anymore. Did this start with the claim that Hawk is as important to the White Sox as Harry was to the Cubs? I honestly can't remember.

 

Love Jason Benetti, though.

[southsider2k5]

Honestly, I'm not sure what we're arguing about anymore. Did this start with the claim that Hawk is as important to the White Sox as Harry was to the Cubs? I honestly can't remember.

 

Love Jason Benetti, though.

 

The resident ownership hater claimed that the difference between Sox fans and Cubs fans bases today is Harry Caray.

[Bananarchy]

The resident ownership hater claimed that the difference between Sox fans and Cubs fans bases today is Harry Caray.

The internet is truly a wonderful place. Thanks for the quick reset.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Deadpool

[Thad Bosley]

The resident ownership hater claimed that the difference between Sox fans and Cubs fans bases today is Harry Caray.

I wish the resident fan base hater/basher would not misquote other posters on this site.

 

I never said anything like this. I said three things: Harry Caray had a positive impact on Sox attendance during his stay with the Sox, a view obviously agreed to by the then-Sox ownership because they paid him huge bonuses tied to attendance. I also said Harry Caray managed to have that impact despite rather minimal exposure on a suburban radio station for awhile and Channel 44.

 

But my broader point was that Harry Caray would have accomplished expanding the Sox fan base the way he impacted and expanded the Cubs fan base had he remained the Sox announcer on WGN. With the power of the superstation at his disposal, he was primarily responsible for the Cubs becoming a national treasure on WGN. The outstanding job he did selling the Cubs and Wrigley Field on WGN translated into an extraordinary boost in attendance, and the Cubs continue to benefit from what he started to this very day.

 

If you choose to deny that, SSK5, that's your problem, but it remains the truth. What also remains the truth is that it was a colossal mistake for the current ownership to let Caray go in the first place and to forego WGN in favor of SportsVision. HUGE, HUGE mistakes by Jerry Reinsdorf & Co. There is no denying that.

 

For anyone interested, here is a great article from a few years ago summarizing what is my point of view. You'll see it is quite different from the silly attempt by SS2K5 to try and paraphrase my opinion.

 

http://kentsterling.com/2013/07/15/chicago...lk-to-the-cubs/

 

[Dick Allen]

I wish the resident fan base hater/basher would not misquote other posters on this site.

 

I never said anything like this. I said three things: Harry Caray had a positive impact on Sox attendance during his stay with the Sox, a view obviously agreed to by the then-Sox ownership because they paid him huge bonuses tied to attendance. I also said Harry Caray managed to have that impact despite rather minimal exposure on a suburban radio station for awhile and Channel 44.

 

But my broader point was that Harry Caray would have accomplished expanding the Sox fan base the way he impacted and expanded the Cubs fan base had he remained the Sox announcer on WGN. With the power of the superstation at his disposal, he was primarily responsible for the Cubs becoming a national treasure on WGN. The outstanding job he did selling the Cubs and Wrigley Field on WGN translated into an extraordinary boost in attendance, and the Cubs continue to benefit from what he started to this very day.

 

If you choose to deny that, SSK5, that's your problem, but it remains the truth. What also remains the truth is that it was a colossal mistake for the current ownership to let Caray go in the first place and to forego WGN in favor of SportsVision. HUGE, HUGE mistakes by Jerry Reinsdorf & Co. There is no denying that.

 

For anyone interested, here is a great article from a few years ago summarizing what is my point of view. You'll see it is quite different from the silly attempt by SS2K5 to try and paraphrase my opinion.

 

http://kentsterling.com/2013/07/15/chicago...lk-to-the-cubs/

One thing you refuse to address, exactly how was JR going to get all the Sox games on WGN when all the Cubs games were on WGN and WGN and the Cubs were owned by the same entity? I'll hang up and listen for my answer.

[southsider2k5]

I wish the resident fan base hater/basher would not misquote other posters on this site.

 

I never said anything like this. I said three things: Harry Caray had a positive impact on Sox attendance during his stay with the Sox, a view obviously agreed to by the then-Sox ownership because they paid him huge bonuses tied to attendance. I also said Harry Caray managed to have that impact despite rather minimal exposure on a suburban radio station for awhile and Channel 44.

 

But my broader point was that Harry Caray would have accomplished expanding the Sox fan base the way he impacted and expanded the Cubs fan base had he remained the Sox announcer on WGN. With the power of the superstation at his disposal, he was primarily responsible for the Cubs becoming a national treasure on WGN. The outstanding job he did selling the Cubs and Wrigley Field on WGN translated into an extraordinary boost in attendance, and the Cubs continue to benefit from what he started to this very day.

 

If you choose to deny that, SSK5, that's your problem, but it remains the truth. What also remains the truth is that it was a colossal mistake for the current ownership to let Caray go in the first place and to forego WGN in favor of SportsVision. HUGE, HUGE mistakes by Jerry Reinsdorf & Co. There is no denying that.

 

For anyone interested, here is a great article from a few years ago summarizing what is my point of view. You'll see it is quite different from the silly attempt by SS2K5 to try and paraphrase my opinion.

 

http://kentsterling.com/2013/07/15/chicago...lk-to-the-cubs/

 

LOL, so you aren't saying that the difference is Harry Caray, but you go on and make this whole paragraph about Caray being the difference.

 

Can we also not pretend that with TribCo owning both the Cubs and WGN, that what you are imagining was even possible?

 

The irony of course being that the Cubs eventually followed to CSN, having lost none of their fan base, and are about to try to create their own network, and still won't lose any of their fan base.

 

[SI1020]

LOL, so you aren't saying that the difference is Harry Caray, but you go on and make this whole paragraph about Caray being the difference.

 

Can we also not pretend that with TribCo owning both the Cubs and WGN, that what you are imagining was even possible?

 

The irony of course being that the Cubs eventually followed to CSN, having lost none of their fan base, and are about to try to create their own network, and still won't lose any of their fan base.

The Cubs became an interstellar phenomenon during the Trib and Co years. The popularity they have in Chicagoland, and the rest of the country is not going to suddenly go away. Especially since now they are actually good and appear to be stacked for years on end. The Sox are going to have to be perennial contenders just to stay modestly relevant in their own home town. The Cubs have decisively won the popularity battle and the ineptness of Sox ownership had no small part in this.

[Bananarchy]

LOL, so you aren't saying that the difference is Harry Caray, but you go on and make this whole paragraph about Caray being the difference.

 

Can we also not pretend that with TribCo owning both the Cubs and WGN, that what you are imagining was even possible?

 

The irony of course being that the Cubs eventually followed to CSN, having lost none of their fan base, and are about to try to create their own network, and still won't lose any of their fan base.

Right, and with the creation of MLB TV, the fact that the Cubs are no longer on WGN America has done nothing to affect their national fanbase, either. The Cubs were on WGN at the right time which has caused their fanbase to be more than self-sustaining.

[southsider2k5]

The Cubs became an interstellar phenomenon during the Trib and Co years. The popularity they have in Chicagoland, and the rest of the country is not going to suddenly go away. Especially since now they are actually good and appear to be stacked for years on end. The Sox are going to have to be perennial contenders just to stay modestly relevant in their own home town. The Cubs have decisively won the popularity battle and the ineptness of Sox ownership had no small part in this.

 

More than anything their fan base is loyal, which allows them to do way more than ours does.