caulfield12 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 08:42 AM) I am not sure where someone would look at the Vogelbach numbers and say he needed MORE time at each level. Only AA, and that's debatable, certainly, because he spent so much time at the lower levels that it's understandable he was finally jumped forward this year. If he was drafted by the White Sox, he definitely would have been at Kannapolis in his second year and pushed to the Carolina League in his third year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 09:47 AM) Only AA, and that's debatable, certainly, because he spent so much time at the lower levels that it's understandable he was finally jumped forward this year. If he was drafted by the White Sox, he definitely would have been at Kannapolis in his second year and pushed to the Carolina League in his third year... To me it seems like the Cubs are intentionally moving him slowly in order to prop up his numbers to trade him, knowing full well that he is blocked at pretty much every position he could play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxSteve Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 09:59 AM) To me it seems like the Cubs are intentionally moving him slowly in order to prop up his numbers to trade him, knowing full well that he is blocked at pretty much every position he could play. Voglebach is strictly a DH and not a good fielding backup ist baseman. That's all. And I'm not saying he is the answer but he has a good OBP and power and he will come a lot cheaper than any of the other guys like Bruce or Cargo. And HE WILL BE TRADED at some point in his career to a American League team so why not now and why not us? Believe me Theo doesn't care if its the Sox or whoever he just wants the best return. I think he would be great with us and we don't have to sacrifice defense and the minor leagues to acquire him. A Voglebach- Avi lefty/ righty DH combo doesn't sound half bad. With Eaton doing a great job in right Avi really doesn't have a position and i would take Voglebach over him as DH for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 11:16 AM) Voglebach is strictly a DH and not a good fielding backup ist baseman. That's all. And I'm not saying he is the answer but he has a good OBP and power and he will come a lot cheaper than any of the other guys like Bruce or Cargo. And HE WILL BE TRADED at some point in his career to a American League team so why not now and why not us? Believe me Theo doesn't care if its the Sox or whoever he just wants the best return. I think he would be great with us and we don't have to sacrifice defense and the minor leagues to acquire him. A Voglebach- Avi lefty/ righty DH combo doesn't sound half bad. With Eaton doing a great job in right Avi really doesn't have a position and i would take Voglebach over him as DH for sure. They are absolutely sacrificing defense with a Vogelbach-Avi DH platoon. Neither of those guys can field their positions competently, and you are removing a bench player like Saladino or Sands who can actually play their positions and hit competently. You act like Vogelbach is a sure thing, just plug and play. This guy hasnt proven anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I still think Chris Carter is realistic option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 12:01 PM) I still think Chris Carter is realistic option. The Sox don't need another right handed version of Dunn/LaRoche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxSteve Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 11:46 AM) They are absolutely sacrificing defense with a Vogelbach-Avi DH platoon. Neither of those guys can field their positions competently, and you are removing a bench player like Saladino or Sands who can actually play their positions and hit competently. You act like Vogelbach is a sure thing, just plug and play. This guy hasnt proven anything How are you sacrificing defense? You don't think Voglebach can play 10 games a year at first? And Frazier can play some first so you can put Saladino at 3rd when that happens. And who says anything about getting rid of Saladino? And did see Sands at first the other day? Not good. The only question here is would you rather have the right handed hitting Sands on your roster or the left handed hitting Voglebach? Sands is very easily replaceable player on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 11:16 AM) Voglebach is strictly a DH and not a good fielding backup ist baseman. That's all. And I'm not saying he is the answer but he has a good OBP and power and he will come a lot cheaper than any of the other guys like Bruce or Cargo. And HE WILL BE TRADED at some point in his career to a American League team so why not now and why not us? Believe me Theo doesn't care if its the Sox or whoever he just wants the best return. I think he would be great with us and we don't have to sacrifice defense and the minor leagues to acquire him. A Voglebach- Avi lefty/ righty DH combo doesn't sound half bad. With Eaton doing a great job in right Avi really doesn't have a position and i would take Voglebach over him as DH for sure. He is also absolutely unproven in any way shape or form. He hasn't even had a single major league AB. We'd have to give up some pretty serious assets to get a guy who has never seen the inside of a major league clubhouse. If you are looking at 2017 and beyond, sure. But for 2016? We need someone a lot more proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 12:45 PM) I don't care about anything else, I want him on the team just for the bat flip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxSteve Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 12:31 PM) He is also absolutely unproven in any way shape or form. He hasn't even had a single major league AB. We'd have to give up some pretty serious assets to get a guy who has never seen the inside of a major league clubhouse. If you are looking at 2017 and beyond, sure. But for 2016? We need someone a lot more proven. Well if you want to see Avi and Sands at DH then i understand. If you want to give up one of our top 3 minor leaguers to get Cargo or Bruce then i understand. And you think we have to give up serious assets for a guy who hasn't seen a major league clubhouse and is ranked like 15th to 20th in their System? Wow they do have a AWESOME system Apprarently, lol. And Schwarber didnt see a major league clubhouse either and that turned out pretty good. I'm saying Voglebach is the 2nd coming but he is attainable without draining our minor leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 12:18 PM) How are you sacrificing defense? You don't think Voglebach can play 10 games a year at first? And Frazier can play some first so you can put Saladino at 3rd when that happens. And who says anything about getting rid of Saladino? And did see Sands at first the other day? Not good. The only question here is would you rather have the right handed hitting Sands on your roster or the left handed hitting Voglebach? Sands is very easily replaceable player on the roster. Because you are taking two players, Avi and Vogelbach, and using them both for one position, and removing any sort of flexibility that robin has with the bench because now he has TWO players that cant play defense, and MAYBE one of them can hit his weight. I am willing to bet Sands is better than Vogelbach and Avi combined playing the outfield, which means he knows what a glove is and how to use it. But you seem content to just throw him in there because....well i dont really know why because the guy hasnt really proved anything in the minors. Cool bat flip tho QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 12:51 PM) Well if you want to see Avi and Sands at DH then i understand. If you want to give up one of our top 3 minor leaguers to get Cargo or Bruce then i understand. And you think we have to give up serious assets for a guy who hasn't seen a major league clubhouse and is ranked like 15th to 20th in their System? Wow they do have a AWESOME system Apprarently, lol. And Schwarber didnt see a major league clubhouse either and that turned out pretty good. I'm saying Voglebach is the 2nd coming but he is attainable without draining our minor leagues. Schwarber raked at every level he stopped at. Not even close to the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 12:51 PM) Well if you want to see Avi and Sands at DH then i understand. If you want to give up one of our top 3 minor leaguers to get Cargo or Bruce then i understand. And you think we have to give up serious assets for a guy who hasn't seen a major league clubhouse and is ranked like 15th to 20th in their System? Wow they do have a AWESOME system Apprarently, lol. And Schwarber didnt see a major league clubhouse either and that turned out pretty good. I'm saying Voglebach is the 2nd coming but he is attainable without draining our minor leagues. What makes you know that this guy will be able to hit in a professional line up, from day one, in a pennant race? And please don't say because Schwarber did it. Nothing about those two players is the same, other than that they are Cubs that can field to save their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 12:08 PM) The Sox don't need another right handed version of Dunn/LaRoche. Adam dunn would be a huge help, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxSteve Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 12:58 PM) What makes you know that this guy will be able to hit in a professional line up, from day one, in a pennant race? And please don't say because Schwarber did it. Nothing about those two players is the same, other than that they are Cubs that can field to save their lives. I'm not saying he can be a major leaguer. I think he can beacuae he doesnt strike out alot and gets alot of walks and looks like a professional hitter. No one knows. But again i don't want to sacrifice any of our top 3 minor leaguers for Cargo or Bruce which we probably have to do. And too the other guys comments about carrying both him and Avi on the roster. Kinda like carrying Sands and Avi. Sands is useless to me and would much rather have a left handed bat. And does anyone here really have faith in Avi? I don't but maybe I'm in the minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 01:02 PM) Adam dunn would be a huge help, actually. Yeah I'd take 2012-2014 Adam Dunn at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 01:36 PM) I'm not saying he can be a major leaguer. I think he can beacuae he doesnt strike out alot and gets alot of walks and looks like a professional hitter. No one knows. But again i don't want to sacrifice any of our top 3 minor leaguers for Cargo or Bruce which we probably have to do. And too the other guys comments about carrying both him and Avi on the roster. Kinda like carrying Sands and Avi. Sands is useless to me and would much rather have a left handed bat. And does anyone here really have faith in Avi? I don't but maybe I'm in the minority. Then why would be worried about trading for him now? We need guys who can help now, not in 2017 and beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Aside from the fact and reality that these trades for sluggers rarely work, and usually are terrible, there is also this reality with the Sox roster. We lose 2 starters, 2 catchers and our CF after this year. We lose our 2B and 3B after next year. And those won't be easy to fill. It will only be harder if you waste scarce pieces on another 1/2 or 1.5 year player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 03:13 PM) Aside from the fact and reality that these trades for sluggers rarely work, and usually are terrible, there is also this reality with the Sox roster. We lose 2 starters, 2 catchers and our CF after this year. We lose our 2B and 3B after next year. And those won't be easy to fill. It will only be harder if you waste scarce pieces on another 1/2 or 1.5 year player. Just because their contracts expire does not mean we lose them. Other contracts can be offered. Thats kind of how it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxSteve Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) Then why would be worried about trading for him now? We need guys who can help now, not in 2017 and beyond. Because you snooze you lose. Because he is going traded sometime and and if we don't have to raid our minor leagues why not do it now. Unless you want to give up Adams, Fulmer, or Anderson when you get in a bidding war for Cargo or Bruce. And he can help now IMO. Why can't he? Unless your in love with Jerry Sands and if that's the case my apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Volgelbach is such an utterly random player to have such a bizarre fascination with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 05:12 PM) Volgelbach is such an utterly random player to have such a bizarre fascination with. And apparently if you don't want him, you are in love with Sands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Apr 28, 2016 -> 05:07 PM) Because you snooze you lose. Because he is going traded sometime and and if we don't have to raid our minor leagues why not do it now. Unless you want to give up Adams, Fulmer, or Anderson when you get in a bidding war for Cargo or Bruce. And he can help now IMO. Why can't he? Unless your in love with Jerry Sands and if that's the case my apologies. Let me clue you in. Vogelbach isn't going to be free. That means we are either giving up one of the pieces you just mentioned, or a starting pitcher to get him. Who exactly do you think the Cubs are going to ask for? They are going to look for someone who can help them this year, or such a good prospect they can't pass up the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) And that's where this whole idea falls apart, regardless of whether he could actually come up and make an instant impact offensively, which is clearly arguable. Let's say they asked for, let's say, Petricka and Jordan Stephens. Now maybe the White Sox bullpen chemistry wouldn't be affected in a major way, but it would still be a risk, because then Webb or Kahnle would be taking Jake's place and Stephens could be a sleeper who suddenly puts it all together and rises. Fwiw, I thought about Putnam, but he was already on the Cubs before, or Jennings...but Petricka sounds about as realistic as any in terms of an ask. Edited April 28, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 It's an underrated aspect of the team, but I'd like to see the Sox get a legit speed burner that can swipe a bag at any time. Those 1 run games are important during the pennant race and having a guy like that would be really nice in those situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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