Early Trade Speculation

[southsider2k5]

caulfield, every trade proposal doesnt have to end with "well you have to trade Fulmer or Adams"

 

 

Just because they are some of the better players in the farm system does not mean that they are the only players that will be traded.

 

 

Shields should not cost either of those two, he has a large contract, he is on a bad team, and he is an older player whose skills have declined somewhat and arent likely to get better

 

If we are willing to take on that contract, Shields will be essentially free, considering he has $44 million left after this year on his deal, if he doesn't opt out (which I can't see hapening). If we were to trade for him at the half way point of the season, he would still be owed $10.5 million, which is almost all of the LaRoche savings.

 

Personally that is a huge dollar addition, and I can't see it happening.

[caulfield12]

Yes, and I noted that earlier when Shields was being discussed.

 

Except the difference was that...or speculation was...that the White Sox would need to get a pretty significant amount of cash subsidy coming back their way to make it work financially (see Jim Thome trade). That subsidy would obviously push up the prospect haul for the Padres.

 

In this thread, someone just said they wanted to add a #3 starter.

 

Assuming we had a list of #3 starters that we could agree upon (let's say Teheran with the Braves was one, or one of the Rays' pitchers), explain how we could acquire both Teheran and Vizcaino without giving up one of Fulmer OR Adams.

 

Sending money to the Braves to help subsidize their deteriorating situation with Hector Olivera? Realistically, do you see THAT happening?

 

 

And yes, we can go through all those 2012 transactions (Liriano, Hudson, Youkilis and Myers) and argue the only players we really gave up were a really good utility player in Escobar (fringe starter) and a POTENTIAL starting pitcher in Chris The Dragon Devenski...and that neither one of those guys was a Top 10 (Escobar was at one point, much closer to 10 than 1) prospect in our system, Devenski didn't have enough time to make an impact on those lists.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

Do you have to call Devenski "the dragon" in every post? I still don't even know who he is

[greg775]

Caulfield I don't understand your Rollins love. At least flip flop their roles. Give Saladino five games to every two from Rollins.

[Special K]

Saladino has no business getting more PT than Rollins, IMO. He is not an everyday player. He can't hit. He is Go-awful at bunting. But he's a decent defender. Rollins at least is not a black hole in the lineup offensively.

[BigHurt3515]

Saladino has no business getting more PT than Rollins, IMO. He is not an everyday player. He can't hit. He is Go-awful at bunting. But he's a decent defender. Rollins at least is not a black hole in the lineup offensively.

 

Not sure what Rollins you have been watching..

 

And to be fair pretty much everyone on our team is awful at bunting.

[Special K]

Not sure what Rollins you have been watching..

 

And to be fair pretty much everyone on our team is awful at bunting.

 

 

If Saladino is going to be awful at hitting, he should at least be able to lay down a bunt. I'm not saying Rollins has been lighting it up, but he's been better than Saladino. Should Rollins ever bat 2? Absolutely not. But that's Ventura's terrible decision.

[GreenSox]

Sox need a starter.

The rest of this is silly contrivances that will set the org back years for temporary comfort of some above average veteran in the lineup.

 

I see Junior Guerra struck out 11 today. It certainly would be nice if the Williams/Hahn/Ventura/Cooper could properly evaluate their own prospects. Cooper wanted nothing to do with Guerra, while saddling the Sox with Noesi for a year.

[Bob Sacamano]

Sox need a starter.

The rest of this is silly contrivances that will set the org back years for temporary comfort of some above average veteran in the lineup.

 

I see Junior Guerra struck out 11 today. It certainly would be nice if the Williams/Hahn/Ventura/Cooper could properly evaluate their own prospects. Cooper wanted nothing to do with Guerra, while saddling the Sox with Noesi for a year.

 

He's 31. You should want nothing to do with him.

[soxfan85]

James Shields hasn't missed a start in 9 years. He has been a good pitcher but he'd be a flyball pitcher leaving Petco for USFC and his indicators are terrible. I pay my respects, but I would not pay the ~20 AAV lasting until 2018.

 

He also gave up a dinger to Colon...that alone would make me stay away

 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

He's 31. You should want nothing to do with him.

I'd take a 31 year old Junior Guerra at this very moment over a 26 year old Erik Johnson or a 25 year old Anthony Ranuado.

 

Age only means so much.

[he gone.]

I'd take a 31 year old Junior Guerra at this very moment over a 26 year old Erik Johnson or a 25 year old Anthony Ranuado.

 

Age only means so much.

 

I have a feeling you were the same guy who was saying lock up Latos after 3 starts.

Guerra is a nobody with a few good games.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd take a 31 year old Junior Guerra at this very moment over a 26 year old Erik Johnson or a 25 year old Anthony Ranuado.

 

Age only means so much.

 

I was making a joke...look at the poster I was responding to.

[caulfield12]

Simply making a pitcher's age as the PRIMARY argument doesn't make a whole lotta sense...because you have lots of guys like Esteban Loaiza, Matt Thornton or Jose Contreras that had their best years with the White Sox (well) past 31. Phil Humber, off the top of my head, was another guy who became serviceable well after his expiration date as a prospect.

 

That said, I have a hard time believing Mr. Guerra would be putting up the same exact statistics as a starter with the White Sox in the AL Central. If we don't make it to the playoffs, letting him go will be about reason #59 for us not getting there.

[Bob Sacamano]

Simply making a pitcher's age as the PRIMARY argument doesn't make a whole lotta sense...because you have lots of guys like Esteban Loaiza, Matt Thornton or Jose Contreras that had their best years with the White Sox (well) past 31. Phil Humber, off the top of my head, was another guy who became serviceable well after his expiration date as a prospect.

 

That said, I have a hard time believing Mr. Guerra would be putting up the same exact statistics as a starter with the White Sox in the AL Central. If we don't make it to the playoffs, letting him go will be about reason #59 for us not getting there.

 

It was a joke. Refer to the post right above yours.

 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I was making a joke...look at the poster I was responding to.

Sorry, that completely went over my head haha.

[OmarComing25]

I would love Rich Hill but by now his acquisition cost is probably too high.

[BigHurt3515]

If Saladino is going to be awful at hitting, he should at least be able to lay down a bunt. I'm not saying Rollins has been lighting it up, but he's been better than Saladino. Should Rollins ever bat 2? Absolutely not. But that's Ventura's terrible decision.

 

What makes Saladino an awful hitter this year and Rollins isn't awful?

[caulfield12]

What makes Saladino an awful hitter this year and Rollins isn't awful?

 

Going into yesterday, about 60 OPS points.

 

Both aren't exactly lighting the world on fire, and Rollins struggles as LHB and should be lower in the order, but the team seems to play better/with more confidence when he's out in the field.

 

 

 

Shields is pitching well tonight against the Giants. ERA around 3 and 46 strikeouts. What are his peripherals at the moment?

 

You just get the feeling he might be motivated to mix it up one more time in the AL Central, especially after the Royals didn't make any attempt to sign him after 2014 (and watching the team he once led win the World Series the following year).

Edited May 20, 2016 by caulfield12

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Going into yesterday, about 60 OPS points.

 

Both aren't exactly lighting the world on fire, and Rollins struggles as LHB and should be lower in the order, but the team seems to play better/with more confidence when he's out in the field.

 

 

 

Shields is pitching well tonight against the Giants. ERA around 3 and 46 strikeouts. What are his peripherals at the moment?

 

You just get the feeling he might be motivated to mix it up one more time in the AL Central, especially after the Royals didn't make any attempt to sign him after 2014 (and watching the team he once led win the World Series the following year).

That would be intriguing. He'd also bring that bulldog championship mentality we need. He instilled it into the Royals. I'd love to go bigger though. We have a chance to make it to the World Series. We need another starter, reliever and an impact bat.

[soxfan85]

That would be intriguing. He'd also bring that bulldog championship mentality we need. He instilled it into the Royals. I'd love to go bigger though. We have a chance to make it to the World Series. We need another starter, reliever and an impact bat.

 

Shields is definitely intriguing. But what about that Jeff Samardzija guy he is going up against tonight, is he available? That guy is having a hell of a year thus far

Edited May 20, 2016 by soxfan85

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Reddick is out 4-6 weeks with a fractured thumb. FYI

[Lillian]

Just as a point of information; Shields actually has pitched better on the road than he has in Petco Park, since joining the Padres.

[Eminor3rd]

Just as a point of information; Shields actually has pitched better on the road than he has in Petco Park, since joining the Padres.

 

Yeah, I think I've read that Petco has actually been playing more like a neutral park the past couple years, so much so that SafeCo is the new consummate pitcher park.

[caulfield12]

That will knock Reddick's trade value down a notch because he might not even be available until the beginning of July...otoh, it just puts all that much more focus on the Padres (Shields/Myers/Kemp), Brewers (Braun/Carter), Reds (Bruce/Phillips), Braves (Markakis/Inciarte/Olivera/Teheran/Vizcaino) and possibly the Rockies (Jake McGee/Jorge de la Rosa/CarGo/Parra).

 

Chapman of the Yankees is becoming the reliever everyone wants to add in order to give them that added edge...would be a huge help to the White Sox, but at the cost of...? Beltran and Gardner both interesting names as well for OF/DH duties.

 

The Phillies have been the surprise of the AL, but they're -30 in runs scored/allowed differential despite being 7 games over .500 and will eventually regress to mean. Not sure exactly who they'd be willing to trade, they have mostly younger players they're looking to hold onto as part of their core as they realistically now look to compete in 2017/18.