Early Trade Speculation

[caulfield12]

Well, the Reds have Hamilton and the Royals have Gore/Dyson, but I'm not sure if the tradeoff would be worth it since Hamilton simply can't get on base often enough.

 

Hamilton, Jackson and Eaton with Melky DHing against RHP would be the best possible defensive alignment. Three CFers in one outfield. But you're giving up a lot of power potential at USCF, the obvious downside. You can get away with a Pods when you're receiving decent power numbers from nearly every other position on the diamond (Dye, Thome/Rowand, Konerko, Crede, Iguchi, Uribe, Everett/Thomas, etc.)

 

Not sure what the cost would be at this point, the Reds might be reaching the point where they're willing to cut bait but they have a rebuilding season, so there's nothing to lose by giving him at least 3-4 more months this season to turn things around.

Edited April 28, 2016 by caulfield12

[BaconOnAStick]

It's an underrated aspect of the team, but I'd like to see the Sox get a legit speed burner that can swipe a bag at any time. Those 1 run games are important during the pennant race and having a guy like that would be really nice in those situations.

Wholeheartedly agree. I wanted Billy Hamilton in the offseason (though he probably would not be a bench guy)

[Buehrle>Wood]

Leury is at Triple A. You're not gonna get faster then him.

[SoxSteve]

Let me clue you in. Vogelbach isn't going to be free. That means we are either giving up one of the pieces you just mentioned, or a starting pitcher to get him. Who exactly do you think the Cubs are going to ask for? They are going to look for someone who can help them this year, or such a good prospect they can't pass up the deal.

Obviously you never heard of a 3 team trade but apparently you forgot about the Frazier deal. And one one hand you say he is not ready and hasn't been on a major league clubhouse and on the other you say we have to give up one of the big 3 to get him. Which is it? That means you think Voglebach will cost the same as Cargo or Bruce right? And apprently you think he is as valuable as Frazier seeing we would have to give up more to get him. And your a mod? And to ,the other guys post i don't have a fascination with him i just think he attainable.

[BlackSox13]

With yet another Danks implosion happening as we post, it might be a better idea to look at starting pitchers available instead of an MiLB 1B/DH that has yet to see his power fully develop in the minors and is in his first season at AAA.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Obviously you never heard of a 3 team trade but apparently you forgot about the Frazier deal. And one one hand you say he is not ready and hasn't been on a major league clubhouse and on the other you say we have to give up one of the big 3 to get him. Which is it? That means you think Voglebach will cost the same as Cargo or Bruce right? And apprently you think he is as valuable as Frazier seeing we would have to give up more to get him. And your a mod? And to ,the other guys post i don't have a fascination with him i just think he attainable.

 

Man you are just going around in circles. You have an idea, but you only seem to want to attack anyone who tries to fill in all of your blanks with some common sense. Who do you actually think we would need to give up in this deal, and why do we need to do it now if it doesn't help us at all this year?

[caulfield12]

Sonny Gray is available for the entire White Sox farm system, basically...A's are going to get a king's ransom if they auction him off to the highest bidder.

[SoxSteve]

Man you are just going around in circles. You have an idea, but you only seem to want to attack anyone who tries to fill in all of your blanks with some common sense. Who do you actually think we would need to give up in this deal, and why do we need to do it now if it doesn't help us at all this year?

And no biggie but i thought i mention Markakis has 411 OBP,11 doubles and 19 RBI 's from the lead off spot on the worse team in baseball.

[BlackSox13]

Man you are just going around in circles. You have an idea, but you only seem to want to attack anyone who tries to fill in all of your blanks with some common sense. Who do you actually think we would need to give up in this deal, and why do we need to do it now if it doesn't help us at all this year?

That's the part of the discussion I do not understand. Trade for a young and promising prospect in Vogelbach because his high BA/OBP could help the Sox now and yet won't cost much to acquire from a cross-town rival? If Vogelbach is good enough to help the Sox now, his cost will not be cheap, especially to a cross-town rival. I don't get it.

[caulfield12]

Markakis is a fine "complementary" player at this point in his career.

 

The only question with him is how highly motivated the Braves are to get rid of that contract, as they've done with Bourn and Swisher already.

 

There's something like 3 years and $30-32 million remaining.

 

As far as making statistical comparisons, you're much better off looking at his last two seasons in Baltimore than one month in the NL East. While he has always maintained very high OBP rates, his power has fallen off precipitously, and his formerly Gold Glove level defense has degraded to well below average. What that's worth to the White Sox, I'm not sure. They would probably be more interested if his contract was expiring after next season...fwiw.

Edited April 29, 2016 by caulfield12

[SoxSteve]

Markakis is a fine "complementary" player at this point in his career.

 

The only question with him is how highly motivated the Braves are to get rid of that contract, as they've done with Bourn and Swisher already.

 

There's something like 3 years and $30-32 million remaining.

 

As far as making statistical comparisons, you're much better off looking at his last two seasons in Baltimore than one month in the NL East. While he has always maintained very high OBP rates, his power has fallen off precipitously, and his formerly Gold Glove level defense has degraded to well below average. What that's worth to the White Sox, I'm not sure. They would probably be more interested if his contract was expiring after next season...fwiw.

True but last year in Atlanta he hit 39 doubles and 379 OBP. Not bad

[caulfield12]

True but last year in Atlanta he hit 39 doubles and 379 OBP. Not bad

 

At some point, they'll have to do something if Garcia's OPS is still in the low 700's.

 

The last thing they're going to do is overpay in early May for Nick Markakis when he'll come back down to earth and they'll eventually have to send money the other way to clear an open spot for a player who will be part of their long-term future in the new ballpark.

 

 

Having watched hundreds of veteran players come into Chicago at least 2-3 years (others more like 3-5 years) past their prime career seasons, I've come to expect realistically expect disappointment rather than over-performance since that's been the case 85-90% of the time since I started following the White Sox in 1979. Every once in a while, you can catch lightning in a bottle, but it's pretty darned rare that it's sustainable. For example, Markakis being 4/5 tonight with 3 RBI's and now 11 doubles on the season. Somehow, someway...that wouldn't be happening on the White Sox when they're in first place and sporting the best record in baseball.

Edited April 29, 2016 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

The Sox have several options at AAA they can try for 5th starter.

I realize that Danks is cooper's guy, but enough is enough. Sox owe him nothing.

 

The problem with trading for some starter, aside from the fact that most 4th/5th starters blow, is that they are of no use in the playoffs. Your top 3 pitch. I realize that's getting ahead of myself some, but the idea is to win in the playoffs as well.

The Sox have put a lot of resources into young starting pitching so that they can grow their own for most key spots.

[caulfield12]

But you can't have a repeat of 2003 (and Lip mentioned 1996, which I don't remember as clearly) where you lose 85% of the starts from the fifth starter.

 

Kenny Rogers for the Twins (relatively cheap signing) was single the biggest difference in that 2003 season. Nightmares will result from reading the list of all the guys who had a shot to start in the fifth spot and failed in epic fashion, as well as in 2010 and 2012.

 

At least we did manage to win the one Gonzalez start, but we've already given away four games in the Danks spot in the rotation. Just an incredibly reasonable expectation of 1-3 in those games puts the Sox record at 17-6, for example.

[beautox]

But you can't have a repeat of 2003 (and Lip mentioned 1996, which I don't remember as clearly) where you lose 85% of the starts from the fifth starter.

 

Kenny Rogers for the Twins (relatively cheap signing) was single the biggest difference in that 2003 season. Nightmares will result from reading the list of all the guys who had a shot to start in the fifth spot and failed in epic fashion, as well as in 2010 and 2012.

 

At least we did manage to win the one Gonzalez start, but we've already given away four games in the Danks spot in the rotation. Just an incredibly reasonable expectation of 1-3 in those games puts the Sox record at 17-6, for example.

Relax, the sox 5th starter will sort it self out in the near future, Fulmer's last start was very promising and he needs more time. Personally I would like to see Erik Johnson get another look at the major league level.

[caulfield12]

I've been hearing that "relax" line ever since the 2000 rotation started to fall apart in the second half of that season...obviously, you don't idiotically run out and overpay, but you need to be more proactive this year (perhaps more than any other) because it has been 4 years since our last competitive team and everyone who followed the team through 2003/2006/2008/2010/2012 knows how critical starting pitching can be in the 2nd half.

 

They were VERY fortunate to have Latos fall into their laps at the last minute for a bargain basement price, or the situation would be close to dire. Counting on Latos with those peripherals to recreate Loaiza's 2003 or Contreras' Aug, 2005 - May 2006 isn't particularly wise, either.

 

At any rate, I don't think anyone in that front office is feeling a false sense of security about the starting pitching right now, or resting on their laurels.

 

 

In the end, the ONE season we should have been able to RELAX was 2005 the final week, but not after having the --IT scared out of us the three prior weeks by the hard-charging Indians.

 

 

[beautox]

I've been hearing that "relax" line ever since the 2000 rotation started to fall apart in the second half of that season...obviously, you don't idiotically run out and overpay, but you need to be more proactive this year (perhaps more than any other) because it has been 4 years since our last competitive team and everyone who followed the team through 2003/2006/2008/2010/2012 knows how critical starting pitching can be in the 2nd half.

 

They were VERY fortunate to have Latos fall into their laps at the last minute for a bargain basement price, or the situation would be close to dire. Counting on Latos with those peripherals to recreate Loaiza's 2003 or Contreras' Aug, 2005 - May 2006 isn't particularly wise, either.

 

At any rate, I don't think anyone in that front office is feeling a false sense of security about the starting pitching right now, or resting on their laurels.

 

 

In the end, the ONE season we should have been able to RELAX was 2005 the final week, but not after having the --IT scared out of us the three prior weeks by the hard-charging Indians.

Give credit where credit is due, Hahn did his due diligence and brought on Latos, no sox fan in their right mind is expecting him to keep up his performance but if you regress to his fip and xfip hes is more than a capable mid rotation starter which is exactly what the sox need. As you already stated they seem to be ok with moving on from dead money in Danks and a 5th starter isn't going to be what makes or breaks this team from being competitive. The offense is.

[ChiSoxJon]

Bats I'd target are guys who can make a Cespedes-like impact from last year on us and I can only see even fractions of that with Bruce or Braun

Erik Johnson/Chris Beck/ Carson Fulmer are in house options to replace Danks

[Lemon_44]

The Reds are basically out of it already and building to the future. I would target Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey from them. For Bailey, the Sox would have to get Cincy to eat a bunch, maybe half, of his contract to do it. Bailey is currently making rehab starts but should be back this not too far from now, maybe about 4-5 more rehab starts. With the Reds rebuilding, shedding salary would be key and I don't think it would even cost that much prospect-wise. Tyler Danish, Chris Beck, and Matt Davidson or a package of similar prospects may get the deal done.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Lemon_44

[Buehrle>Wood]

I'm not paying Homer Bailey even 40 of the 80 hes owed coming off Tommy John

[iamshack]

Ryan Braun?

[Bigsoxhurt35]

The Reds are basically out of it already and building to the future. I would target Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey from them. For Bailey, the Sox would have to get Cincy to eat a bunch, maybe half, of his contract to do it. Bailey is currently making rehab starts but should be back this not too far from now, maybe about 4-5 more rehab starts. With the Reds rebuilding, shedding salary would be key and I don't think it would even cost that much prospect-wise. Tyler Danish, Chris Beck, and Matt Davidson or a package of similar prospects may get the deal done.

 

From rotoworld.com

 

Reds manager Bryan Price revealed Sunday that Homer Bailey (elbow) has suffered a "slight setback."

The club doesn't think it's serious, although it's unclear how long this might delay Bailey's return. The Reds are also dealing with a setback for Anthony DeSclafani (oblique) and a shoulder injury to Raisel Iglesias. Bailey had been expected back by mid-May.

Source: C. Trent Rosencrans on TwitterMay 1 - 11:23 AM

[GreenSox]

In the end, the ONE season we should have been able to RELAX was 2005 the final week, but not after having the --IT scared out of us the three prior weeks by the hard-charging Indians.

The 2 positions that aren't producing offensively are SS and Catcher...of course, those are two DEFENSIVE positions.

 

I agree that the Sox will probably have to go out and get a 5th starter. It shouldn't cost that much and it probably would help. There are in-house options, although Cooper doesn't appear to like them much (of course, if he can't do anything with the 5th starter we trade for, that won't help either).

 

And that 2005 wasn't a cakewalk had nothing to do with Williams' failure to make some trade for a "star" in mid-season. The Sox won 99 games. What more do you want?

And had Williams made the trades the fans wanted, the Sox don't win the WS (Joe Randa; give up "everything" for the "elite" AJ Burnette).

 

The trades for pitching in 2012 didn't help a lick. Probably hurt us, in fact. The June trade for the 3B was critical...but then again, we gave up exactly zero for him.

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by GreenSox

[southsider2k5]

Ryan Braun?

 

The White Sox are on his no trade list, even without getting into that horrible contract he has.

[BlackSox13]

The White Sox are on his no trade list, even without getting into that horrible contract he has.

Same for his age and off season back surgery.

 

I still cling to hope that the Sox can find in-house options for the 5th starter and potential holes at SS and DH. Would hate to pay trade deadline prices. Good thing is that it's only May so the Sox have plenty of time to explore in-house options.