Early Trade Speculation

[Dick Allen]

The problem with trying to trade with the Yankees is they aren't going to pull the plug at least until the deadline, and who knows if they would even do it then even if they had little hope.

 

They are going to want something other than financial relief for their players. The Sox need to keep their better prospects and spend some of the LaRoche money to enhance their roster.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I never gave Tex a thought because the guy I thought about from NY was Beltran. I'm sure Beltran wouldn't cost a ton especially since he's in his last year of his contract and starting out slow.

[GreenSox]

Low batting average and high walks...and when they come to the Sox, they keep the low batting average and forget how to walk. 36 and in decline.

It's sure to work this time.

[OmarComing25]

Low batting average and high walks...and when they come to the Sox, they keep the low batting average and forget how to walk. 36 and in decline.

It's sure to work this time.

Who are you referring to with this? Because it doesn't describe Dunn, LaRoche, Melky, Frazier, or Lawrie.

[southsider2k5]

Who are you referring to with this? Because it doesn't describe Dunn, LaRoche, Melky, Frazier, or Lawrie.

 

Forget it, he's rolling.

[GGajewski18]

Who are you referring to with this? Because it doesn't describe Dunn, LaRoche, Melky, Frazier, or Lawrie.

 

Texeira.

[GreenSox]

Sox offensive weakness is the 2 hole...they need someone who can get on base. While longing for the Sox to decimate the farm to acquire the next over the hill or bad-splits slugger, no one seems bothered about Rollins' .636 OPS in the 2 hole (if he were a rookie instead of 38 people would be going crazy about it). That's one less runner for Abreu and Frazier (hopefully) to drive in.

Now they could correct that to some extent by moving Lawrie to the 2 hole, but they'd lose something in the mid-back of the order.

[OmarComing25]

Texeira.

He made it sound like there's a bunch of players who come over to the Sox and suddenly have a huge dropoff in their walk numbers, but I can't find a single example of a player who did that.

[hi8is]

they need someone who can get on base.

Good point - why not someone who gets on base at a high clip and has power. If we're going for it... Go for it. Put Lawrie in the two hole and find a LH stud to sandwich between Abreu and Frazier.

[GreenSox]

He made it sound like there's a bunch of players who come over to the Sox and suddenly have a huge dropoff in their walk numbers, but I can't find a single example of a player who did that.

You're right...sometimes it's the batting average that takes the 50 point drop instead.

From a macro perspective:

Ritchie

Swisher

Samardzija

Edwin Jackson (to be fair he was never any better than mediocre; and he was mediocre with the Sox just like with everyone else).

Vasquez - see Jackson

Dunn

Laroche

And, dare I suggest, Frazier., so far...hopefully he turns around. But as of now, Trayce is out-hitting him. So is Lawrie, who didn't cost Trayce et al.

 

The only ones that produced were Thome and Garcia and those were still dubious trades (Thome "allowed" KW to get rid of Frank - while produced .100 OPS points less than Thome, we were stuck with Anderson/Mackowiak instead of Rowand; Garcia was a rent...we could have signed him as a FA). Robertson is excellent and several smaller acquisitions have been pure gold.

 

And yet people are convinced that another blockbuster transaction is the golden key. It's madness.

Heck, look what happened to the Astros after their acquisition of 2 "Elite" pieces, who suddenly aren't so elite.

Edited May 4, 2016 by GreenSox

[southsider2k5]

You're right...sometimes it's the batting average that takes the 50 point drop instead.

From a macro perspective:

Ritchie

Swisher

Samardzija

Edwin Jackson (to be fair he was never any better than mediocre; and he was mediocre with the Sox just like with everyone else).

Vasquez - see Jackson

Dunn

Laroche

And, dare I suggest, Frazier., so far...hopefully he turns around.

 

The only ones that produced were Thome and Garcia and those were still dubious trades (Thome "allowed" KW to get rid of Frank - while produced .100 OPS points less than Thome, we were stuck with Anderson/Mackowiak instead of Rowand; Garcia was a rent...we could have signed him as a FA).

 

And yet people are convinced that another such transaction is the golden key. It's madness.

Heck, look what happened to the Astros after their acquisition of 2 "Elite" pieces, who suddenly aren't so elite.

 

Wait, this was about walks and hitters, but half of that list is pitchers.

 

Now show us all of the prospects that left that didn't fail.

 

 

[hi8is]

... Frazier... But as of now, Trayce is out-hitting him.

In what universe?

[Princess Dye]

Yikes, just noticed how bad Ishikawa has been at Charlotte.

[OmarComing25]

You're right...sometimes it's the batting average that takes the 50 point drop instead.

From a macro perspective:

Ritchie

Swisher

Samardzija

Edwin Jackson (to be fair he was never any better than mediocre; and he was mediocre with the Sox just like with everyone else).

Vasquez - see Jackson

Dunn

Laroche

And, dare I suggest, Frazier., so far...hopefully he turns around. But as of now, Trayce is out-hitting him. So is Lawrie, who didn't cost Trayce et al.

 

The only ones that produced were Thome and Garcia and those were still dubious trades (Thome "allowed" KW to get rid of Frank - while produced .100 OPS points less than Thome, we were stuck with Anderson/Mackowiak instead of Rowand; Garcia was a rent...we could have signed him as a FA). Robertson is excellent and several smaller acquisitions have been pure gold.

 

And yet people are convinced that another such transaction is the golden key. It's madness.

Heck, look what happened to the Astros after their acquisition of 2 "Elite" pieces, who suddenly aren't so elite.

Not sure why Edwin Jackson is on that list, he had a 3.66 ERA with us. Vazquez performed as expected, he did better with the White Sox than he did with other AL teams. And your continued insistence on including Frazier is mindboggling, his .740 OPS is hardly a huge problem, and he's currently one of the more valuable 3B in the league, As for Rollins, have you seen Saladino's batting line this season? Thompson is striking out at a 30% clip and has a .371 BABIP. Nice try.

[caulfield12]

Thompson's an interesting case, in that he again has a higher than expected OPS.

 

Granted, it's in the NL West, so it's harder to make comparisons.

 

Nobody can argue they'd still rather have Micah over Lawrie, and Montas is hurt (could have contributed as our 5th or high leverage reliever, but who knows what the Dodgers will get out of him this year, if anything...)

 

Frazier took a lot of the pressure off Abreu when Jose was struggling recently and brings a veteran "swagger" we were lacking from all those departed guys like Gillaspie (shrugs) and Flowers...well, Gordon had the swagger without the results to match it, but that's another story.

 

At any rate, if we had Thompson instead of Austin Jackson (who has a negative WAR, by the way), I'm not so sure that Eaton is playing the best RF or, heck, the best defense in all of MLB right now. They might have put Eaton back in CF and had Thompson in RF, although maybe not coming off the shoulder surgery. I have a feeling the presence of all those guys like Frazier, Jackson, Avila, Navarro and Jackson has completely changed the overall team attitude for the better, although there's no way for me to prove that or quantify it in any meaningful way.

 

And, as someone wrote, Thompson's BABIP is due for a huge regression, like Avi last year or Flowers a couple of years ago.

 

Jackson had really poor luck the first couple of weeks of the season and was hitting the ball really well before slumping, so there's still hope for him in general to at least be a 675-700 OPS guy when all is said and done, which would be acceptable for an everyday CF who plays solid defense.

 

As far as Freddie Garcia goes, I'm not certain that 2005 team starts out so well without already having added Contreras and Garcia in the previous season...they got their feet wet, and then something carried over to 2005. It's POSSIBLE he would have selected the White Sox as a free agent because of the Ozzie family connection, but there was certainly no guarantee other than trading for him and extending his deal in 2004. And, obviously, none of the players we traded amounted to anything with Seattle. How good Morse was without the PEDS, we'll never know that either.

Edited May 4, 2016 by caulfield12

[Kalapse]

You're right...sometimes it's the batting average that takes the 50 point drop instead.

From a macro perspective:

Ritchie

Swisher

Samardzija

Edwin Jackson (to be fair he was never any better than mediocre; and he was mediocre with the Sox just like with everyone else).

Vasquez - see Jackson

Dunn

Laroche

And, dare I suggest, Frazier., so far...hopefully he turns around. But as of now, Trayce is out-hitting him. So is Lawrie, who didn't cost Trayce et al.

 

The only ones that produced were Thome and Garcia and those were still dubious trades (Thome "allowed" KW to get rid of Frank - while produced .100 OPS points less than Thome, we were stuck with Anderson/Mackowiak instead of Rowand; Garcia was a rent...we could have signed him as a FA). Robertson is excellent and several smaller acquisitions have been pure gold.

 

And yet people are convinced that another blockbuster transaction is the golden key. It's madness.

Heck, look what happened to the Astros after their acquisition of 2 "Elite" pieces, who suddenly aren't so elite.

So at what point are you going to admit that you're flat out wrong about Frazier? I already produced the numbers, yet you seem to be doubling down on your bad opinion.

[Rowand44]

In what universe?

In a universe where everyone over the age of 25 is complete garbage. The Greensox universe.

[Chicago White Sox]

Anyone ripping the Thome & Garcia trades should be banished from this site. Absolutely mind-boggling to dislike either on those deals.

[Bob Sacamano]

While Jackson may be negative right now, Eaton does say in interviews that Jackson takes control of the outfield defense in center and tells him where to play for certain guys.

[BaconOnAStick]

I've definitely been pleased with Frazier lately, but Trayce is a damn fine player and I know from the start he was the wrong guy to give up. Montas and Micah I could handle, Trayce was a bad move.

 

Whatever get past it and move forward, just wish they'd have thrown something else in there for the Dodgers.

[OmarComing25]

And, dare I suggest, Frazier., so far...hopefully he turns around. But as of now, Trayce is out-hitting him. So is Lawrie, who didn't cost Trayce et al.

Since you love your small sample sizes, how's this one. Thompson has 57 PA this year and is hitting .278/.316/.463 with a 5.3% BB% and a 29.8% K%. In Frazier's last 57 PA, he's hitting .250/.351/.521 with a 12.3% BB% and a 12.3% K% despite a BABIP of just .211 over that span. Man, I sure hope Frazier turns it around.

[chitownsportsfan]

I've definitely been pleased with Frazier lately, but Trayce is a damn fine player and I know from the start he was the wrong guy to give up. Montas and Micah I could handle, Trayce was a bad move.

 

Whatever get past it and move forward, just wish they'd have thrown something else in there for the Dodgers.

 

You have to give to get. The Dodger's didn't want a "throw in" they wanted someone that has value. That's Trayce.

[Kyyle23]

Trayce is a 4th outfielder. Not really gonna sweat that

[Chicago White Sox]

Since you love your small sample sizes, how's this one. Thompson has 57 PA this year and is hitting .278/.316/.463 with a 5.3% BB% and a 29.8% K%. In Frazier's last 57 PA, he's hitting .250/.351/.521 with a 12.3% BB% and a 12.3% K% despite a BABIP of just .211 over that span. Man, I sure hope Frazier turns it around.

It's not worth your time putting together a coherent, fact-based argument as GreenSox will simply ignore it and focus solely on DOB.

[Rowand44]

And if we want to overreact to Trayce's 50 some on plate appearances this year then the guy still can't hit rhp. I still think he's probably a 4th OF who could possibly start because of his glove but he's nothing to get super upset about. He's nothing special.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Rowand44