Ventura will earn his extension the next 43 games

[caulfield12]

Obviously that game and the way it ended was terrible, you just had a notion after Duke gave up the hit against Moreland up the middle that it was possible to lose the lead, and all along had that uneasy feeling that the game was never ever over, not in Texas, not even when it was 10-5 or 11-6.

 

Ventura's defenders will state the obvious. Major league relievers should be able to preserve a five run lead with only six outs to go. That said, he was asleep at the wheel a bit because he didn't have Putnam or Albers ready to go at the start of the 8th inning...and, if they were both capable of warming up and pitching, there's just no reason to put the game in the hands of Carroll after he got out of the previous inning.

 

You certainly put in Albers after the first two reached, or Duke to face Mazara. You can make an argument he only gets ONE hitter because of where they were, in the heart of the Rangers' line-up. Loading the bases there, especially walking Mazara...that's what set the whole thing in motion, regardless of any strike call against Andrus going against them.

 

 

Looking forward, have an absolutely killer schedule coming up until we play the Twins on June 28th.

 

43 games against good/solid/playoff teams, with the "easiest" ones being the Astros for three.

 

 

 

My personal feeling is that this team is similar to the 2008/2010/2012 teams, that we SHOULD be a playoff team after having taken a rather significant (statistically) six game lead in the division by the middle of May. We are clearly a pitcher and hitter away from being a very good or great team...but you don't have to be great to make the playoffs. The 2005/06, 03-04 (before injuries) and 2000 teams were stronger IMO.

 

So it will be interesting to see which way this goes...the doubters/skeptics now have some new evidence against Ventura, despite how "invisible" he has been this season in terms of tactical decisions/blunders.

 

We have sprung leaks in the starting rotation (Rodon and Latos looking vulnerable) and the entire bullpen, it feels like we don't have a single reliever at the moment that we can rely on 100%. Before, it was Albers and Robertson and Nate Jones were all very good, but all three of those guys have been shaky in the last week or two. That happens over the course of a season. The offense, defense (outfield the last two nights) will ebb and flow. We weren't the best pitching staff in the AL, and we certainly weren't one of the worst offenses. It has been really fun to see the offense firing on all cylinders, however...something that didn't happen much except for a stretch in 2014 when Abreu was murdering the ball.

 

 

After all this time, 4+ years, I still can't say that I feel 100% confident in Ventura as a manager. Not because of tonight, but because of everything that happened at the end of 2012 and then the last three years. We know that Sale/Quintana/Latos/Gonzalez won't continue their 22-1 pace, and Rodon/Danks their 1-10 clip...it's just a statistical impossibility, something has to give, probably tomorrow with Latos facing Hamels.

 

If Ventura can get through these next 43 games at 22-21 (45-32), I'll buy the argument that he deserves strong consideration for an extension. If we start to founder and fall back into a three or four way race with the Indians, Royals and Tigers, then my confidence level about winning the division in August and September barring some divine intervention from Rick Hahn/KW/JR will be down...forced to confront this franchise's historical struggles to close out seasons and push through into the post-season.

 

But thankfully, the Indians, Royals and Tigers are all blessed (or cursed) with major flaws. So there's that, above all else.

 

Nevertheless, we need to go out there soon and prove we can hold our own against those three and not become "mental midgets" again.

Edited May 11, 2016 by caulfield12

[soxforlife05]

I think RV's only real blunder was not letting Duke face Mazara. But Albers didn't have good stuff at all looked gassed to me velocity down and not locating well giving up laser line drives. Wouldn't have made much difference if he was brought in earlier.

 

We can still win the series tomorrow. I'll take a road series win against a playoff contender every time. With no Sale or Quintana to boot!!!

 

Wait till after the season on extending RV he's not going anywhere.

 

[caulfield12]

Yeah, Albers (I think) has given up runs in three consecutive appearances.

 

We knew he wasn't THAT good (the scoreless streak) but he's probably been pushed too hard so early in the season...it's not like he is in that great shape to begin with.

 

It does expose that area of weakness that most teams have, which is the bullpen second unit. Petricka has had stretches the last two years where you wonder why he's so erratic because his stuff can be closer-esque at times...and Putnam was absolutely a pleasant surprise like Albers (this year) in 2014 when that forkball/splitter was almost unhittable there for a stretch.

 

Someone said that Putnam was also warmed up and ready to go...following on ESPN Game Cast so I'm not sure if that is/was true or not. (Of course, it's easy to argue that Ventura should have used Putnam as well).

 

I also think Rua was something like 1/11 with RISP and hitting .160 against RHP, so statistically it was the right move to have Albers or Putnam there (assuming Jones and Robertson weren't available).

 

The other reason to use Putnam is simply the fact that he's much more likely to keep the ball on the ground and not allow the Rangers to elevate...as the ONE thing you can't have happen there is the home run.

 

 

 

 

“We’ve been using these guys a lot, and this is a game that you tip the cap to (the Rangers),” Sox manager Robin Ventura said. “They didn’t give up. … Just an off night, bullpen-wise. That’s going to happen in a long season. As far as faith in these guys going forward, we have all that for them. Tonight is just a tough night.”

 

www.chicagotribune.com/sports

 

 

Everyone is VERY lucky. They can at least go to sleep and not have to stew about this game all day, haha. 2:30 in the afternoon here. Maybe SLIGHTLY worse if you're the poster who woke up in Ireland while this whole situation was transpiring in the late innings.

 

I still remember walking around the beach in Thailand all day after that stupid game in 2008 that Carlos Gomez and the Twins single-handedly beat the White Sox and Jenks late in the season...just couldn't let it go and think about something else the whole day long.

Edited May 11, 2016 by caulfield12

[soxforlife05]

Yeah, Albers (I think) has given up runs in three consecutive appearances.

 

We knew he wasn't THAT good (the scoreless streak) but he's probably been pushed too hard so early in the season...it's not like he is in that great shape to begin with.

 

It does expose that area of weakness that most teams have, which is the bullpen second unit. Petricka has had stretches the last two years where you wonder why he's so erratic because his stuff can be closer-esque at times...and Putnam was absolutely a pleasant surprise like Albers (this year) in 2014 when that forkball/splitter was almost unhittable there for a stretch.

 

Someone said that Putnam was also warmed up and ready to go...following on ESPN Game Cast so I'm not sure if that is/was true or not. (Of course, it's easy to argue that Ventura should have used Putnam as well).

 

I also think Rua was something like 1/11 with RISP and hitting .160 against RHP, so statistically it was the right move to have Albers or Putnam there (assuming Jones and Robertson weren't available).

 

The other reason to use Putnam is simply the fact that he's much more likely to keep the ball on the ground and not allow the Rangers to elevate...as the ONE thing you can't have happen there is the home run.

 

Carroll never sees the bigs if Petricka and Webb aren't on the DL right now. Albers is a sinker/slider guy so it was the right guy for the situation. The Rua HR was lucky no doubt .160 hitter vs RHP 2016 and .188 hitter vs RHP 2015.

 

Putnam would've been the 2nd choice but then you'll have people blame RV if it goes wrong for not going with our high leverage relievers.

[caulfield12]

Not sure about Webb...seems his control has been so spotty almost everyone has given up on him.

 

He also has never shown the consistent ability to maintain his once-reported upper 90's fastball.

 

 

We also had Kahnle, heck Michael Ynoa and Eric Johnson for that matter.

[greg775]

After tonight's debacle I agree he should be judged after this season.

[oldsox]

Every move Robin made in the 7th and 8th cost us runs. This one is on him.

[Kyyle23]

I like when these threads pop up in the heat of the moment after a ugly loss, and they determine that the ugly loss means everything now and forever

[harkness99]

I've always been apprehensive about Ventura - but I can't really blame him for last night.

 

The Bullpen has had a couple rough nights in a row... it was going to happen eventually. Last night was horrible beyond belief -

 

If I'm going to blame anyone its Albers... he might have been taxed or tired or a million different things. But on 2 strikes two

 

batters in a row he left pitches right over the heart of the plate - those two bad pitches were the biggest reason we lost. He doesn't do that we still are up 11-8 or around that and the game is still ours.

 

Now we just have to hope these guys can get their confidence back.

[kitekrazy]

It's just a reminder this team still has its mental midgets and I wonder how long it will take for the new players to settle in that same role. Sure it was bad game but even when the team is behind there are people in the pen who will give up a run.

[OmarComing25]

Every move Robin made in the 7th and 8th cost us runs. This one is on him.

I can't agree, the loss was on the pitchers (and Jackson's poor defense). Robin really didn't have much choice with a gassed pen, Carroll, Duke and Albers should have been able to hold a 5-run lead.

[OmarComing25]

It's just a reminder this team still has its mental midgets and I wonder how long it will take for the new players to settle in that same role. Sure it was bad game but even when the team is behind there are people in the pen who will give up a run.

Man what a hot take.

Edited May 11, 2016 by OmarComing25

[bmags]

That albers looked so bad should let you know why Robin's instinct was to let Carroll pitch a whole inning. The pen was gassed. ALl of our guys look tired.

 

That carroll is our best "longman" option is scary, as we've always had a plethora of AAAA pitchers that can come up in a pinch and be okay in that scenario. Carroll clearly has lost his.

[chitownsportsfan]

Where the hell were petricka and putnam? Your mopup man is not the guy you EVER want starting the 8th up five runs. He should only be used to mop up early in games where the starter s*** the bed.

 

Awful managing.

[chitownsportsfan]

That albers looked so bad should let you know why Robin's instinct was to let Carroll pitch a whole inning. The pen was gassed. ALl of our guys look tired.

 

That carroll is our best "longman" option is scary, as we've always had a plethora of AAAA pitchers that can come up in a pinch and be okay in that scenario. Carroll clearly has lost his.

 

There was no need for a longman with six outs left.

[Dick Allen]

Where the hell were petricka and putnam? Your mopup man is not the guy you EVER want starting the 8th up five runs. He should only be used to mop up early in games where the starter s*** the bed.

 

Awful managing.

Just awful not using a guy on the DL. He needs to be fired immediately.

 

To think this poster thinks ROBIN is clueless.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

That albers looked so bad should let you know why Robin's instinct was to let Carroll pitch a whole inning. The pen was gassed. ALl of our guys look tired.

 

That carroll is our best "longman" option is scary, as we've always had a plethora of AAAA pitchers that can come up in a pinch and be okay in that scenario. Carroll clearly has lost his.

 

Carroll has actually been decent in this role historically with the White Sox. Much better than as a starter.

[OmarComing25]

Where the hell were petricka and putnam? Your mopup man is not the guy you EVER want starting the 8th up five runs. He should only be used to mop up early in games where the starter s*** the bed.

 

Awful managing.

Petricka is on the DL and Putnam threw 22 pitches the previous night. He likely would have come in the 9th inning anyway. I don't have a problem with the call.

Edited May 11, 2016 by OmarComing25

[shysocks]

Where the hell were petricka and putnam? Your mopup man is not the guy you EVER want starting the 8th up five runs. He should only be used to mop up early in games where the starter s*** the bed.

 

Awful managing.

You say this like it's some universally accepted axiom. Carroll has like a 4.50 career ERA. He should have been able to get this done.

 

Petricka is on the DL. Putnam threw 20 pitches the night before.

[Y2Jimmy0]

It's just a reminder this team still has its mental midgets and I wonder how long it will take for the new players to settle in that same role. Sure it was bad game but even when the team is behind there are people in the pen who will give up a run.

 

 

Who exactly is a mental midget?

[Dick Allen]

Who exactly is a mental midget?

Every pitcher who gives up a run, and every hitter who isn't on base at least 2 or 3 times every game.

[chitownsportsfan]

Wtf when did he go on the dl? That makes more sense to me then. I will say then that the team put rv in a bad spot. Carroll never should have been the guy called up. Longman is not needed in todays mlb.

 

I was out hiking all day yesterday was he put on the dl prior to the game?

[southsider2k5]

You say this like it's some universally accepted axiom. Carroll has like a 4.50 career ERA. He should have been able to get this done.

 

Petricka is on the DL. Putnam threw 20 pitches the night before.

 

The actual numbers:

 

As a reliever in the majors; Scott Carroll 3.26 ERA, 1.335 whip, 1.91 k/BB

As a starter; 5.40 era, 1.566 WHIP, 1.33 k/bb

 

Realistically his stuff is good enough to go through the line up once, MAYBE twice. Definitely not 3 or 4 times.

[Dick Allen]

Wtf when did he go on the dl? That makes more sense to me then. I will say then that the team put rv in a bad spot. Carroll never should have been the guy called up. Longman is not needed in todays mlb.

 

I was out hiking all day yesterday was he put on the dl prior to the game?

Last Thursday.

[flavum]

Ventura in summary for me:

 

He should have never been hired.

 

He definitely shouldn't have made it to a fifth year.

 

I don't necessarily think he has anything to do with a 23-10 start. Plenty of "experts" think some World Series winning managers were bad managers.

 

If the Sox don't make the playoffs after this start, he definitely shouldn't be renewed.

 

That's all I have to say about the manager the rest of the season.