Ventura will earn his extension the next 43 games

[Jerksticks]

But ideally, whats acceptable? 99 percent? 80 percent?

Wonderful point. Robin's been great this year with the pen. I think when posters flame Ventura for bullpen management they are forgetting a major major factor:

 

Yes splits mattter but bullpen managing is mostly gut and feel for your guys. A manager doesn't know if a guy is going to "have it" when he comes in. Guys play sick, guys play when personal issues are in their heads, guys play when they don't get sleep the night before, guys play tired, guys just don't "have it" some days. I'd argue it's 90% feel and knowing your guys and 10% splits, metrics, saber bs etc.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Jerksticks

[caulfield12]

The distinction you are trying to draw between 5 and 6 is completely arbitrary, as is all of the rest of the post.

 

 

That's why managers are paid to have a "feel" for the game...and game situations.

 

And maybe it doesn't matter, perhaps the Royals, Tigers and Indians never even get to 5 games over .500 and the White Sox sail through the regular season.

 

It WILL matter in the post-season. Up until these 2 games, it seemed Ventura was managing with a more pronounced sense of urgency, and that's always going to be a good thing when most managers are fairly conservative and traditionalist.

[caulfield12]

1-5 including the Tuesday night Ryan Rua debacle in Texas.

 

No extension forthcoming. 3 1/2 up on the Indians, 4 1/2 on the Royals and just 6 on the Tigers. A week ago it was 6/7/8 games up.

 

 

Fans still on the fence about this team, 13,481 in attendance.

 

Lots of little things, lack of clutch hitting, the defense has started to make some mistakes, the bullpen has completely turned into the Cuyahoga River in the early 1980's other than Robertson, no Frazier, etc.

 

On the plus side, Adam Eaton continues to be one of the best players in the majors. But Jose Abreu, where art thou?

[GreenSox]

8 straight balls, 2 hitters walked, and Ventura orders a bunt. Ventura's limited skillset could not be more clear.

Also note that he gets worse when times get tough - see the last week and see the last month of 2012.

 

But to the Sox a happy mole is more important than a skilled manager.

 

[caulfield12]

The Manager's RULEBOOK says you play for the big innings at home...granted, he wasn't just playing for the tie, as there were two runners on, but our sacrifice bunting has been horrible since, yeah...the year 2000.

 

And the other factor to consider is that holding a 1 run lead (well, ANY lead) has been far from automatic for this team in the past week. Playing for a big inning (especially with Jones unavailable) seemed to be the better play.

 

[Panerista]

OMG. Robin. Stop bunting. It's bad baseball

[shysocks]

#1, stop bunting. PLEASE.

 

#2, and I know it's been beaten to death, but we have ten hitters who you'd call regulars. Why are two of the worst ones hitting second all the time? Lawrie or Melky could easily slide in there. Some would call changing the batting order right now a panic move. I'd call it smart.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

#1, stop bunting. PLEASE.

 

#2, and I know it's been beaten to death, but we have ten hitters who you'd call regulars. Why are two of the worst ones hitting second all the time? Lawrie or Melky could easily slide in there. Some would call changing the batting order right now a panic move. I'd call it smart.

Bunting isn't necessarily a bad thing if there are guys that know how to do it in the right situations. The problem is that no one on the Sox can lay them down consistently.

[OmarComing25]

Bunting isn't necessarily a bad thing if there are guys that know how to do it in the right situations. The problem is that no one on the Sox can lay them down consistently.

No it's pretty much a bad thing 99% of the time. It's intentionally giving away outs.

[shysocks]

Bunting isn't necessarily a bad thing if there are guys that know how to do it in the right situations. The problem is that no one on the Sox can lay them down consistently.

Very rarely is it a good idea.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

No it's pretty much a bad thing 99% of the time. It's intentionally giving away outs.

Very rarely is it a good idea.

That's why I said in the right situations. I'm not a fan of bunting early in games or in low leverage situations, but if you're down by 1 with no outs in the bottom of the 9th with guys on 1st and 2nd, you bunt.

 

To me, it really depends on the situation and the matchups.

[Lip Man 1]

Fans still on the fence about this team, 13,481 in attendance.

 

True but according to the box score it was also a "balmy" 52 degrees at game time and I assume it got colder as the game wore on.

 

Weather has at times really stuck it to the White Sox, can't blame fans for not coming out when the weather remains lousy.

 

Mark

 

[Dick Allen]

True but according to the box score it was also a "balmy" 52 degrees at game time and I assume it got colder as the game wore on.

 

Weather has at times really stuck it to the White Sox, can't blame fans for not coming out when the weather remains lousy.

 

Mark

The place would have been full if JR didn't let Harry get away 34 years ago.

[captain54]

The place would have been full if JR didn't let Harry get away 34 years ago.

 

This Reinsdorf outfit has had 36 yrs to try to put asses in the seats. Still haven't been able to figure it out

 

Maybe more wacky promotions? They've got Bring your Pooch day/night. Then there's Elvis night. How about combining them and having fans bring their pets, dressed as Elvis, Night? Sound like a winner to me. Or maybe Don Cooper dressed as Elvis for home games, the remainder of the season?

 

[Lip Man 1]

This Reinsdorf outfit has had 36 yrs to try to put asses in the seats. Still haven't been able to figure it out

 

Maybe more wacky promotions? They've got Bring your Pooch day/night. Then there's Elvis night. How about combining them and having fans bring their pets, dressed as Elvis, Night? Sound like a winner to me. Or maybe Don Cooper dressed as Elvis for home games, the remainder of the season?

 

Now THAT's funny!

 

Mark

Edited May 18, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[caulfield12]

Have they tried something with Marvel or DC Comics...to try to attract younger fans? I don't know what it would be, Sox Captain America Bobblehead giveaway, Mascot Race with the main characters, comic books giveaway...heck, they could give away those Andy Skanberg White Sox comics, but something to take advantage of the "moment" marketing-wise?

 

I guess Boyer's retort would be that they've been struggling to develop corporate sponsors at "fair prices" over the last 3-4 years, so money has been tighter in terms of filling the schedule with more giveaway/promotional nights or days.

 

For example, the Twins have a Trevor Plouffe as Luke Skywalker Bobblehead promotion.

 

 

 

And back to our regularly scheduled Robin Ventura Talk...

[SonofaRoache]

If the Sox want fans in the seats at a high rate they need a lot of we brought W's to the park night.

[Panerista]

If the Sox want fans in the seats at a high rate they need a lot of we brought W's to the park night.

Pretty much. If the Sox were able to establish a dynasty, they could theoretically change their situation long term.

[Kyyle23]

Have they tried something with Marvel or DC Comics...to try to attract younger fans? I don't know what it would be, Sox Captain America Bobblehead giveaway, Mascot Race with the main characters, comic books giveaway...heck, they could give away those Andy Skanberg White Sox comics, but something to take advantage of the "moment" marketing-wise?

 

I guess Boyer's retort would be that they've been struggling to develop corporate sponsors at "fair prices" over the last 3-4 years, so money has been tighter in terms of filling the schedule with more giveaway/promotional nights or days.

 

For example, the Twins have a Trevor Plouffe as Luke Skywalker Bobblehead promotion.

 

 

 

And back to our regularly scheduled Robin Ventura Talk...

 

Star Wars night.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

2-7 in their last 9.

 

Lead cut by 4 1/2 games, down to 1 1/2 over the Indians and 3 1/2 over the Royals.

 

Royals 22-8 against KC in their last 30 at USCF.

 

 

One thing is for sure. The Twins/Piranhas got into the heads of the White Sox and Ozzie big time. At least we were able to counter in 2005 and down the stretch in 2008.

 

If we can't beat get to the playoffs this year, Reinsdorf needs to give Renteria or someone else an opportunity because next season is absolutely a critical one for the franchise...probably the most important one since 2006 in terms of determining the future direction of this organization.

Edited May 21, 2016 by caulfield12

[Panerista]

All of a sudden, that Robin extension talk looks ridiculous. You can survive a bad week, but a bad fortnight is a lot of bad.

[greg775]

All of a sudden, that Robin extension talk looks ridiculous. You can survive a bad week, but a bad fortnight is a lot of bad.

Thing is ... Sox played so well for such a long period of time (six weeks is a long period of great baseball) it looked like we had a special team. We were rattling off win after win, even without scoring many runs. Now loss after loss. It's true, though, the adage that it's all about the players. At 23-10 Robin looked like a genius, confidently making out the lineup and making the right calls. When the bullpen reeks and nobody can hit a home run cept Frazier and only 2 starters are godly, then the manager looks like a bozo.

[Panerista]

Thing is ... Sox played so well for such a long period of time (six weeks is a long period of great baseball) it looked like we had a special team. We were rattling off win after win, even without scoring many runs. Now loss after loss. It's true, though, the adage that it's all about the players. At 23-10 Robin looked like a genius, confidently making out the lineup and making the right calls. When the bullpen reeks and nobody can hit a home run cept Frazier and only 2 starters are godly, then the manager looks like a bozo.

And Robin is still all nonsense. You can deal with the inopportune bunting and the silly lineup decisions when the Sox are winning, but when they look bad Robin gets exposed.

[GreenSox]

I would suggest that Ventura and Cooper actually try earning their extension, but I'm sure they're doing the best they can. Ventura is limited in ability and Cooper is obsolete. And there's only so much they can do with this core of 4 + mediocre veterans.

Edited May 21, 2016 by GreenSox

[The Beast]

I heard something at today's game about Ventura making a comment about the attendance after Sale's last start. Does anyone know what was said?