Corpse ball is back

[SCCWS]

Sox were looking like they had "it" at 23-10. Team was rolling and rattling off win after win and winning series after series. It seems like the Sox do more "weird" stuff than most franchises. Like play 23-10 ball and start to look somewhat special then turn to complete crap. Yes it happens, but what's with the 23-10? True at that point we hadn't started playing division teams cept for the Twins. Wait til Detroit starts beating us like a drum to go with Cleveland and KC. Will interest ever be lower in a first place team than after KC kicks our ass 3 of 4 or all 4 this weekend?

 

Greg: I am with you in that I thought they should have taken Francona. But he was lousy in Philly, great in Boston till he lost control and now pretty good in Cleveland. So in the end, he has been bad, great and pretty good. I would say he is as good as the talent he is given. Same as Farrell and Yost that I previously mentioned.

 

[Lip Man 1]

Mark: How important is the manager. I thought hiring Robin was dumb because he had zero experience. You say you want a ML manager w a proven track record. I submit 2 current names

 

John Farrell--- was well respected pitching coach w Francona. Goes to Toronto and has 2 mediocre seasons of sub .500 baseball. Hired by Red Sox and wins World Series in first year. Next year w virtually the same team finished dead last. last year struggle again and then he is forced to leave for health problems. Interim manager comes in and Sox improve over last 2 months. Takes over this season and Red Sox at this point are playing very good baseball. My take---the team play determines his success since his career as a manager is a roller-coaster.

 

Ned Yost---manager for Brewers for 5 years w sub .500 record and no post season appearances. He is fired and hired in 2010 by Royals. In 5+ years w Royals he has a sub-500 record but a 22-9 record in postseason and a WS win.

 

Two guys who managed losing teams were rehired and have won a World Series and both are still sub 500 career managers. I think the team is much more important than the manager or his track record before he is hired.

 

Good managers set the tone, make solid baseball decisions and put the players they have in the BEST positions to win games.

 

That's how a manager is important. He is not the be-all / end-all but a good manager is damn valuable.

 

Mark

 

[kitekrazy]

Good managers still can't win with bad players. This organization could stop being a training ground for managers anytime now.

[SCCWS]

Good managers set the tone, make solid baseball decisions and put the players they have in the BEST positions to win games.

 

That's how a manager is important. He is not the be-all / end-all but a good manager is damn valuable.

 

Mark

 

But again you say good managers set the tone. But John Farrell won a World Series but then has had 2 bad seasons in Toronto and 2 bad seasons in Boston and so far is having a good season in Boston. How can a manager have so many ups and downs. Would that not indicatethat maybe it is not him but he wins when the team plays well and loses when the team plays poorly. Same w Francona and Yost.

 

Now maybe Maddon got solid results w mediocre teams in Tampa and very good results w good talent in Chicago.

 

[caulfield12]

Maddon's TB teams were not untalented. Crawford, BJ Upton, Zobrist and Longoria. All the young pitching in the world. Especially those teams in 2008-10.

 

What set him apart was his use of platoons and turning borderline AAAA players into Jeff Keppingers. He got the most he possibly could out of his roster. Getting the last TB team he took to the playoffs, IMO, was his best managing job of all, especially with all the financial powerhouses in that AL East to contend with.

 

It's all about the wine, mimes and glasses.

[caulfield12]

We always talk about OTHER managers and try to apply that by osmosis to Ventura.

 

According to that "The Only Rule Is It Has to Work" book, any manager over age 48 risks a generation gap with his players (Maddon seems to be the exception again).

 

Robin's right in that borderline area, between this generation's Millennials and the 80's/90's Gen Xers.

 

I will say he's very good at maintaining an even keel and almost never losing his composure. Bland with the media, especially in comparison with Maddon (maybe that's a net minus from a marketing standpoint, but not his main job).

 

Not sure what else is he is good at, to be honest. He probably grades out as average or below average in all those categories like strategy, motivational techniques, bullpen usage, etc. I'm not sure any opposing team is CONCERNED about being outmanaged by Robin compared to the feeling we might be outmanaged by one of our opponents (and that's a bias a lot of fanbases have, grass is always greener or backup QB syndrome.) Perhaps the other managers like Gardenhire, Leyland, Francona, Scioscia, Maddon are better because we keeping hearing about them being better in the media?

 

OTOH, I don't think ANYONE who's regularly posted in the gamethreads over the last 4+ seasons rates him as even an above-average manager and worries about losing him to another organization.

 

And it was an insult to the fanbase, in a way...that they didn't want to hire a more experienced guy. At least Ausmus and Matheny were catchers and always aspired to managing. Same with AJ Hinch (came out of the front office), for that matter.

Edited May 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[captain54]

When Reinsdorf did more interviews, like.. right around the 2003 season, he was asked what the chances were of Jerry Manuel being replaced….

 

I believe it was Mike North on the WSCR… who, more or less, put him on the spot..

 

His comment was "Every manager we hire is given a roster of 25 players. What he does with those 25 players determines whether or not he is under consideration of being replaced"

 

I'm not quoting verbatim, but you get the general idea..

 

I find it interesting that the same philosophy has never been applied to Robin… a choke in 2012 and 3 successive losing season, and it's the players who are thrown under the bus, by management...

Edited May 26, 2016 by captain54

[SI1020]

Good managers set the tone, make solid baseball decisions and put the players they have in the BEST positions to win games.

 

That's how a manager is important. He is not the be-all / end-all but a good manager is damn valuable.

 

Mark

I agree. You could give Robin the 1998 Yanks and he'd still be a lousy manager. I mean if talent wills all then why even have a manager? I don't understand that mindset at all. Edited May 26, 2016 by SI1020

[Y2Jimmy0]

When Reinsdorf did more interviews, like.. right around the 2003 season, he was asked what the chances were of Jerry Manuel being replaced….

 

I believe it was Mike North on the WSCR… who, more or less, put him on the spot..

 

His comment was "Every manager we hire is given a roster of 25 players. What he does with those 25 players determines whether or not he is under consideration of being replaced"

 

I'm not quoting verbatim, but you get the general idea..

 

I find it interesting that the same philosophy has never been applied to Robin… a choke in 2012 and 3 successive losing season, and it's the players who are thrown under the bus, by management...

 

 

This is the last year though. They choked down the stretch in 2012. 2013 and 2014 can't be held against him. Those were con-compete years. Last year was bad. If this year doesn't end up in a playoff appearance, Robin will be gone.