Another overreaction I'm done with this team thread

[kitekrazy]

Just face it. It won't get better until this team is gutted from the top down.

 

They don't invest in an experienced manager. Somewhere former players who step in to manage their team should realize you will be remembered as the hated manager and forgotten as the great player. I do wonder if the Sox are the only organization who asked someone to become a manager with that person having no intent of getting back into baseball. Even a guy like Frank Thomas were to become manager we would probably not like him either. I no longer want Sox retreads. It hasn't boosted the teams popularity. I don't think former players should ever manage the team they play for. It's the best way to crap on your legacy.

 

The patterns of incompetence year after year are the fault at the top. We can't change this. So my interest in the team is challenged. I dislike everything White Sox except for Sox Talk. It's the only thing that keeps me interested.

 

I so want new ownership and someone way outside the organization. Most successful owners are very good at handsoff. They also don't allow things as nepotism and employ their buddies. It's difficult for a major league team to lose money these days. I want an owner who wants to win but without a Jerry Jones ego. I want one who tries to get the best scouts and instructors. Those would be evaluated by performance. We see the same mistakes like being clueless at baseball, folding under pressure and yet those people in the organization remain.

 

I feel duped thinking it may be different this year and I know there's a lot of baseball left but how many times will it take for Charlie Brown to realize not to try to kick the football? I feel like this team is cursed. The nice start most likely was due to new players on the field. But one they get assimilated into that Sox uniform they become a Sox and it's downhill after that. This is a mystery I can't solve.

 

I think back when Thomas, Alexi, and Beckham (you can even go back to Thad Bosley) came up. When was the last time a guy from the minors brought excitement to the team? Now it's boneheaded mistakes like bad base running or misplaying a fly ball or the typical exhibit of mental weakness.

 

The only hope I can see if there's a complete change in the top otherwise we will see more of this.

 

 

[Panerista]

The worry is when you look at a team like Houston, which has failed to turn the "bottom up" method into sustained success. The Cubs have had a ridiculous amount of success with their front office moves. Russell and Rizzo are guys they didn't draft.

 

I get your frustration. I want a new story, too. I'm tired of years of bad, too.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Deadpool

[caulfield12]

Just face it. It won't get better until this team is gutted from the top down.

 

They don't invest in an experienced manager. Somewhere former players who step in to manage their team should realize you will be remembered as the hated manager and forgotten as the great player. I do wonder if the Sox are the only organization who asked someone to become a manager with that person having no intent of getting back into baseball. Even a guy like Frank Thomas were to become manager we would probably not like him either. I no longer want Sox retreads. It hasn't boosted the teams popularity. I don't think former players should ever manage the team they play for. It's the best way to crap on your legacy.

 

The patterns of incompetence year after year are the fault at the top. We can't change this. So my interest in the team is challenged. I dislike everything White Sox except for Sox Talk. It's the only thing that keeps me interested.

 

I so want new ownership and someone way outside the organization. Most successful owners are very good at handsoff. They also don't allow things as nepotism and employ their buddies. It's difficult for a major league team to lose money these days. I want an owner who wants to win but without a Jerry Jones ego. I want one who tries to get the best scouts and instructors. Those would be evaluated by performance. We see the same mistakes like being clueless at baseball, folding under pressure and yet those people in the organization remain.

 

I feel duped thinking it may be different this year and I know there's a lot of baseball left but how many times will it take for Charlie Brown to realize not to try to kick the football? I feel like this team is cursed. The nice start most likely was due to new players on the field. But one they get assimilated into that Sox uniform they become a Sox and it's downhill after that. This is a mystery I can't solve.

 

I think back when Thomas, Alexi, and Beckham (you can even go back to Thad Bosley) came up. When was the last time a guy from the minors brought excitement to the team? Now it's boneheaded mistakes like bad base running or misplaying a fly ball or the typical exhibit of mental weakness.

 

The only hope I can see if there's a complete change in the top otherwise we will see more of this.

 

2014 Abreu

2009 Beckham

2008 Alexei/Carlos Quentin (probably would have been MVP if not missing the final month, self-inflicted)

2007 Josh Fields

2000's Rowand/Crede (although far from instant sensations)

 

Then you have Konerko/Magglio/CLee all coming up together, a year or two after Ray Durham.

 

I was quite excited when they signed Viciedo. Didn't last, and it took him 4 years to really make an impact.

 

I was super excited when they traded for Sosa and Alvarez (but rued not getting Juan Gone).

 

 

On the pitching side, well...I'm not going to go there. Obviously Sale in 2010. Rodon last year. Many examples dating back to the late 80's/early 90's such as McDowell, Fernandez and Alvarez.

 

Garland in 2001 (although not a strikeout pitcher). Kip Wells in 1999.

 

Contreras in 2005/06 when he was a roll like Sale before last night's game and clearly the best pitcher in the game.

 

Loaiza in 2003 until the final month.

 

Heck, even Shingo Takatsu in 2004/05 with the gong and then Jenks was awesome for 2-3 years before fading.

Edited May 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

If only we would have signed Cespedes. Imagine what his OPS would have translated to in terms of wins above Avi.

[Chicago White Sox]

If only we would have signed Cespedes. Imagine what his OPS would have translated to in terms of wins above Avi.

That's the only thing that pisses me off about the offseason. It was clear we needed another impact bat and Cespedes was there for the taking. I blame ownership more for that than I do Hahn though. He was a player worth opening the checkbook for and it seems like Hahn didn't have enough financial flexibility to add an impact free agent. Hell, Ian Desmond would be looking pretty good right now at SS over Rollins.

[caulfield12]

Well, realistically, there weren't many teams willing to pay $27.5 million or whatever it was.

 

And LaRoche was still on the payroll then. Finally, no guarantee he puts up those same numbers for us (obviously, he did for the Tigers, though).

 

However, the Tigers could make the same argument (Cespedes over Upton), the Royals (over Gordon, which has fizzled) or imagine him playing with Brantley, Kipnis, Santana, Lindor, Ramirez and Gomes...that would be an explosive offense.

 

Cespedes on any of the AL Central teams gives them the division, in all probability.

[jenksycat]

JR needs to go really, same s*** until that happens.

 

I usually give up on the Sox around mid-april, so bravo for stringing me along till nearly June this time. Only 2 reliable starters (luckily both happen to be aces), flash in the pan bullpen, best power hitter now a slappy singles hitter who looks completely lost most of the time, corpse batting 2nd the entire season.

[caulfield12]

The bottom of the line-up with Lawrie (big homer Monday, otherwise...), Garcia, catcher and Jackson.

 

Pretty darned corpsey. If that's word.

 

Potentially better than Mark Johnson and Royce Clayton. (Of course, we had at least 5-6 mashers who could jack 20+ homers at that time, so that offset the two automatic outs).

Edited May 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

I really hope this year proves to be the year these types of threads eat crow. I'm unbiased and just will wait to see.

[Panerista]

I really hope this year proves to be the year these types of threads eat crow. I'm unbiased and just will wait to see.

It would take years of success for that to happen. Heck, Blackhawk boards like this are a bloodbath with people calling for Bowman's head continually.

[Bob Sacamano]

The worry is when you look at a team like Houston, which has failed to turn the "bottom up" method into sustained success. The Cubs have had a ridiculous amount of success with their front office moves. Bryant, Russell, and Rizzo are all guys they didn't draft.

 

I get your frustration. I want a new story, too. I'm tired of years of bad, too.

 

Huh?

 

[Panerista]

Huh?

I don't know what I was thinking.

[caulfield12]

Arrieta? Soler? Strop? Hector Rondon was Rule 5 from CLE.

 

 

[Rowand44]

My favorite line is the "I know there's a lot of baseball left" part making it sound like we're in last place or something. If there wasn't baseball left in the regular season we'd be in the playoffs.

[kitekrazy]

If only we would have signed Cespedes. Imagine what his OPS would have translated to in terms of wins above Avi.

 

I don't know. If he wore that Sox uniform....he'd be like the others. In a slump, at least 3 other guys would slump.

 

[kitekrazy]

My favorite line is the "I know there's a lot of baseball left" part making it sound like we're in last place or something. If there wasn't baseball left in the regular season we'd be in the playoffs.

 

and looking like they don't belong in there

[spiderman]

The White Sox, when Chris Sale isn't pitching, are, at best a .500 type team. Thankfully, he pitches 20% o the time.

 

As improved as the defense has been, unfortunately, it was going to be tough to win behind the success of the starting rotation/defense because the rotation was going to come back to earth and it was never good enough to support a poor offensive lineup.

[caulfield12]

 

 

 

A lot of us predicted 82-85 wins. That's exactly what we're looking at right now.

 

We're very fortunate to be 6-0 versus the Twins (Royals and Tigers are 8-1, KC just lost today after having a 5-3 lead)...whereas the Indians are 2-4 against the Twins.

 

Basically the main difference in the division, because the Indians are actually 9 games over .500 against the Sox, Royals and Tigers.

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

Is it better to have won and lost than never to have won at all?

 

It feels like many on the board wish we had been .500 from the start.

[caulfield12]

No, that's not what I meant. Simply saying that if we were 6 games over now and in first place because we had just won 11 of our last 15 (similar to the trajectory of the Indians and the Royals to a lesser extent)...then the perception is quite a bit different. Especially considering winning 3 consecutive games and beating our opponent's two best pitchers (including the likely Cy Young winner).

 

Glass is half-empty or half-full I suppose. 88-74ish team or 83-84?

 

.500 is death in today's game. Look at last season, it led to hesitation and holding onto Shark when we theoretically could have gotten something useful for this season (and not a draft pick who conceivably MIGHT help the team in 2020 or 2021).

 

If we had a plethora of prospects that other teams were interested in, it wouldn't be such a big deal. As it is, the Indians have the best farm system, and the Tigers and Royals have the ability to spend...so it all depends on how much JR is willing to add to payroll, especially in light of "saving" the money that was going to be allocated to DH/LaRoche.

 

As it is, if we do fall back in the standings, there's always the possibility we hear "we're waiting on Anderson and Fulmer (for 2017)" and then spin will be we were competitive one year earlier than projected (throwing out the 3 year window stuff for a moment).

Edited May 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[Harry Chappas]

A modern philosophy to hitting is what this team needs.

 

Bad at-bats and making easy outs on pitches they should take for a strike.

 

I'd rather strike out looking on a close pitch that could go either way then swing at it on 3-2 and ground out weakly to second.

 

Doing this when it is 0-1 or 2-0 is the mindlessness of this team and the mantra of corpseball.

 

 

[Texsox]

Caulfield For the record I wasn't directly responding to your post. Sorry if it seems like I was. I was speaking more to the general mood in multiple threads.

[kitekrazy]

Is it better to have won and lost than never to have won at all?

 

It feels like many on the board wish we had been .500 from the start.

 

Or they want the team to tank bad enough that Robin gets fired

 

[LVSoxFan]

Well I covered this yesterday but yeah, I'm in agreement here.

 

I've always said that as long as KW is in charge, expect more of what you've been getting for the past decade. For a hot minute (ok a hot month) there I thought: "Oh.... maybe he pulled it off this time."

 

Nope.

 

They seemed like they had such a spark and talent in April--I still don't know what happened. But here we are again: a couple of big-time pitchers whose impact is (or is going to be) negated because we are horrible at the plate. And for all the great defense in the first month, what happened to that?

 

At this point--and this is my non-baseball-expert take on this--I wonder what this team would look like with a proven, experienced manager? It just seemed like they all had/have some ability (unlike recent years) and they definitely had heart so I wish I could see them with a Maddon-type figure, just to see if that made a difference.

 

Or is that crazy? Because I realize the manager's not the one actually playing the game.

 

SUCH a disappointment though, to be back here. I really was excited for this season after that start.

[Texsox]

I'm sitting here wondering how many franchises deserve dedicated fans over the past 50 years. Yankees? Dodgers? Cardinals? Braves? Red Sox? I have to believe our Sox are somewhere in the upper half.