Parents Stuck With Their Kids

[southsider2k5]

Am I the only one who remembers working and going to school with a lot of lazy teenagers and 20somethings when I was growing up? GenXers had the same s*** said about them as Xers are now saying about Millenials. I know the WWII generation said the same thing about the Boomers to. It is tradition for people to think that somehow this generation is going to be the one that screws up the world, though the funny part is that the same people b****ing about how bad a current generation is are the ones who raised that damned generation in the first place! If they really are that bad, who made them that way?

[illinilaw08]

Am I the only one who remembers working and going to school with a lot of lazy teenagers and 20somethings when I was growing up? Baby Boomers has the same s*** said about them as Boomers are now saying about Millenials. I know the WWII generation said the same thing about the Boomers to. It is tradition for people to think that somehow this generation is going to be the one that screws up the world, though the funny part is that the same people b****ing about how bad a current generation is are the ones who raised that damned generation in the first place! If they really are that bad, who made them that way?

 

Winner.

[illinilaw08]

I'm with Steve. I hire people all the time, and find it very hard to find people under 30 who can do that job and I would want to hire. I have had countless people show up to interviews completely blank as to what we do and most of the time what the job typically calls for. When I find good people, I find some really good people, but it is tough. And I would say it is tougher than back in the 90's and early 2000's. I get too many people with a super inflated set of job expectations in regards to pay and vacation relative to the amount of work required.

 

And I do realize that my situation was unique. I paid off my college loans within 2 years, mostly because I worked my ass off every summer, every break and 2 nights a week in a factory to cover school costs NOT covered by my small scholarship. I was able to live at home, albeit paying rent, for about 9 months before I got a real job, and mover out a month after that. i realize not everyone could find and work a job like I did to pay for school. Doesn't mean they can't work at McDonalds or Kohls.

 

Alpha - cost of education is significantly higher now than it was even a decade ago. When I was in law school (and tuition was a lot less than it is now), I worked at law firms in Champaign during the school year (and in the summer), had a scholarship that covered half my tuition, lived in crappy houses with a bunch of other dudes paying minimal rent, and still exited school with an amount of debt that I will call a "crapload."

 

I was fortunate enough to not have any undergrad debt, but my law school debt is basically a second mortgage, and it's a second mortgage because of the astronomic cost of education - an issue that my parent's generation didn't have to deal with...

[StrangeSox]

Am I the only one who remembers working and going to school with a lot of lazy teenagers and 20somethings when I was growing up? GenXers had the same s*** said about them as Xers are now saying about Millenials. I know the WWII generation said the same thing about the Boomers to. It is tradition for people to think that somehow this generation is going to be the one that screws up the world, though the funny part is that the same people b****ing about how bad a current generation is are the ones who raised that damned generation in the first place! If they really are that bad, who made them that way?

 

"kids these days!!!"-every generation in the history of man

 

 

[RockRaines]

which is just shy of $50k equivalent today.

 

The last few posts are unintentional versions of this:

Mine was 2004

[StrangeSox]

Alpha - cost of education is significantly higher now than it was even a decade ago. When I was in law school (and tuition was a lot less than it is now), I worked at law firms in Champaign during the school year (and in the summer), had a scholarship that covered half my tuition, lived in crappy houses with a bunch of other dudes paying minimal rent, and still exited school with an amount of debt that I will call a "crapload."

 

I was fortunate enough to not have any undergrad debt, but my law school debt is basically a second mortgage, and it's a second mortgage because of the astronomic cost of education - an issue that my parent's generation didn't have to deal with...

 

Compared to when I went to U of I (03-07), tuition is already more than double, fees are more than double, room and board is up almost double, books are almost double.

 

https://publicaffairs.illinois.edu/surveys/...ee_tracking.xls

[StrangeSox]

Mine was 2004

Figured it was around there, yours is still lower than the average liberal arts starting salary today (~35k).

[bmags]

Alpha - cost of education is significantly higher now than it was even a decade ago. When I was in law school (and tuition was a lot less than it is now), I worked at law firms in Champaign during the school year (and in the summer), had a scholarship that covered half my tuition, lived in crappy houses with a bunch of other dudes paying minimal rent, and still exited school with an amount of debt that I will call a "crapload."

 

I was fortunate enough to not have any undergrad debt, but my law school debt is basically a second mortgage, and it's a second mortgage because of the astronomic cost of education - an issue that my parent's generation didn't have to deal with...

 

Here's a good macro report of this, including tuition.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/fi...ials_report.pdf

Money quote:

This cyclical relationship also holds at the state level: states with the largest increases in the

unemployment rate relative to their averages before the Great Recession registered the largest

declines in headship rates on average. With parents helping their children in times of labor market adversity, the majority of young adults living at home report that their own financial situation has improved.59

 

[RockRaines]

Figured it was around there, yours is still lower than the average liberal arts starting salary today (~35k).

Woo hoo.

 

I also worked a weekend job at a bar but rent was 700 ish and it was awesome.

[caulfield12]

1) It's acceptable if they are going to graduate school, for example, as a way to save money.

 

2) As noted, over and over again...most men and women around the world think it's WEIRD to move out at that age, that something is wrong with Americans. Look at all the Greek (once again, economics) and Italian men who stay at home with their families into their late 20's and early 30's. Basically, much of the rest of the world presents a challenging environment to save money when you're getting your first job right out of college, and these are countries where you typically need a 20-30% downpayment to buy a house. Nothing like we used to have in the US with interest only/ARM/no money down/no credit check. We see where that got us. There's something honorable about being patient and having to save and invest in order to earn something you want, instead of everything being so accessible through credit cards and easy loans.

 

3) 2008-09 altered the economic landscape...and blue collar/vocational workers have never faced a more challenging environment, especially when you add the costs of raising children.

 

4) Here in China, almost every girl/woman stays at home with her family (part of it's the feeling for both kids and parents of safety/security) until she marries, usually between age 23-27. My wife stayed at home with her parents (and she graduated from a Top 5 university and has a good job by Chinese standards) until we got married when she was 30. (The other thing is her salary is basically $1250 USD a month, which seems like poverty, but which is "good" here...unfortunately, good isn't nearly enough to pay $1000 a month for a mortgage on a 100 square meter apartment. Cars are also more expensive to buy, imported autos costing roughly 50% more due to high tariffs compared to the US.)

 

The other thing, as noted, is that it makes ZERO sense when real estate prices are so high to put yourself in a huge amount of debt (and the amount of house/apartment/condo you can get is roughly 1/2 what you'd receive in America)...and there's also this idea that families take care of each other, your often see grandparents, parents and grandchildren living together. No such thing as day care here in China, except for elite families who hire nannies and au pairs and have cooks and cleaners and household staff.

 

Nobody trusts strangers to take care of their family, so it's natural to live together. Otherwise, someone's going to have to commute back and forth all the time, and that's inconvenient in a country where many still don't have cars and trips on the subway/bus are often uncomfortable and frustrating because of the crowding. Why deal with all that stress for the illusion of privacy/independence just because it's this unique American idea?

Edited May 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[greg775]

The people that tend to scream at how hard they work tend to be those incredibly out of touch with the efforts of those around them. Not surprised you are drawn to that.

I didn't think Steve was bragging; he was uh, responding to a thread on a message board. I don't think he's out of touch either. He hired the 6 prepared Millenials, not the ones who came in unprepared and overwhelmed.

 

And I do realize that my situation was unique. I paid off my college loans within 2 years, mostly because I worked my ass off every summer, every break and 2 nights a week in a factory to cover school costs NOT covered by my small scholarship. I was able to live at home, albeit paying rent, for about 9 months before I got a real job, and mover out a month after that. i realize not everyone could find and work a job like I did to pay for school. Doesn't mean they can't work at McDonalds or Kohls.

Hmmm .. Hard work, sweat, working one's "ass off during summers" seems to still pay off. Alpha Dog worked hard and paid rent to mom and pops. Good for you, Dog.

 

Alpha - cost of education is significantly higher now than it was even a decade ago. When I was in law school (and tuition was a lot less than it is now), I worked at law firms in Champaign during the school year (and in the summer), had a scholarship that covered half my tuition, lived in crappy houses with a bunch of other dudes paying minimal rent, and still exited school with an amount of debt that I will call a "crapload."

 

I was fortunate enough to not have any undergrad debt, but my law school debt is basically a second mortgage, and it's a second mortgage because of the astronomic cost of education - an issue that my parent's generation didn't have to deal with...

Fair post. Good post. Kids are facing higher costs, but a lot of mamas and daddys are paying for college. They have to. They've raised their toddlers in such a safe, entitled (hey look at my kids, world, they won this trophy!) environment they have to make sure they go to college. Make sure they stay on the right course of being perfect little boys and girls.

I thank my dad for paying for my college. I am privileged and fortunate in that regard. Think of all he saved me, the worry and stress and hardship trying to pay my own way. In that regard I am a spoiled brat, too. But he would have stopped dishing me money once I got my degree. He wasn't going to get taken advantage of, which I think is what is happening in many cases. It's pretty easy to go back home to live while waiting for some employer to see your resume online and decide you are so special the company has to have you, instead of busting your ass like Steve and Alpha to get your first job and 'work' your way up the ladder.

Edited May 26, 2016 by greg775

[Rowand44]

Fair post. Good post. Kids are facing higher costs, but a lot of mamas and daddys are paying for college.

Why do you think this is true? Because it's not.

[greg775]

Why do you think this is true? Because it's not.

I know a lot of a.) rich kids. Parents are paying and buying them cars and luxury apartments. Basically rich kid syndrome. B.) I know some dads and moms who considered it part of their duty as parents to pay for their kids' education. If they were gonna bring 'em into the world, they'd save up and get them through college. A lot also are prepared to pay for their daughter's wedding, too, per the old tradition of doing that.

[pettie4sox]

When I was an entry level chemist (2007-08 and starting salary was $24,000-$26,000) all of the kids I worked with lived at home with their parents. I did not and suffered as a result (and didn't really have the option). I had to work overtime every week just to live paycheck to paycheck. The student loans were almost the same as my rent. I struggled my first two years until I get a job that gave me a significant pay bump, then I just blew all my money paying debt down.

 

America! f*** YEAH!

[Chisoxfn]

I didn't think Steve was bragging; he was uh, responding to a thread on a message board. I don't think he's out of touch either. He hired the 6 prepared Millenials, not the ones who came in unprepared and overwhelmed.

 

 

Hmmm .. Hard work, sweat, working one's "ass off during summers" seems to still pay off. Alpha Dog worked hard and paid rent to mom and pops. Good for you, Dog.

 

 

Fair post. Good post. Kids are facing higher costs, but a lot of mamas and daddys are paying for college. They have to. They've raised their toddlers in such a safe environment they have to make sure they go to college. I thank my dad for paying for my college. I am privileged and fortunate in that regard. In that regard I am a spoiled brat, too. But he would have stopped once I got my degree. He wasn't going to get taken advantage of, which I think is what is happening in many cases. It's pretty easy to go back home to live while waiting for some employer to see your resume online and decide you are so special the company has to have you, instead of busting your ass like Steve and Alpha to get your first job and 'work' your way up the ladder.

Greg - Who is getting taken advantage of. All of these parents who are allowing it to happen, have control, and they are allowing it to happen. This isn't them doing it against their will. Maybe some of them are upset, but lets face the realities of today's environment. Be realistic. Everyone always wants to blame everyone else or feel better about what they've done vs. recognizing that things can be different and that is okay (and not a negative against new generations). What young people today can accomplish can be pretty incredible given technological advances, etc.

 

How many 20 year old were bagillionaires back in the 50's or 70's or even 80's? Think of the Zuckerberg's and whomever else who are self made trillionaires at such incredibly young ages. The ability to invent and come up with revolutionary technology or processes (Airbnb / Uber), etc, is incredible.

 

Oh and a degree isn't a differentiator in today's day and age, it is a necessity and a bare minimum. People need to figure that out first and foremost, it is the equivalent of what a high school degree was when you graduated. So for you, having a college degree differentiated you....it doesn't differentiate the typical college grad today. I am near certain that overall employment rates for college grades are probably far lower now than they were back when there were fewer college grads, etc.

 

Bottom line, I actually think it is worse for the people who just want to spend time belitting everyone else (which is just an indirect way of telling everyone how amazing they are) should do a 180 and take an ego check. You think a lot of these people don't want to live on their own and be independent. It is there own ego check given the state of the economy and the difference in value of a college education today vs. a generation or two generations ago (along with the fact that the inflation adjusted costs differ greatly as well).

[pettie4sox]

greg with yet another silly troll post...

 

Parents paying for college? Some sure but it's getting too expensive even for them!

[Chisoxfn]

I know a lot of a.) rich kids. Parents are paying and buying them cars and luxury apartments. Basically rich kid syndrome. B.) I know some dads and moms who considered it part of their duty as parents to pay for their kids' education. If they were gonna bring 'em into the world, they'd save up and get them through college. A lot also are prepared to pay for their daughter's wedding, too, per the old tradition of doing that.

Well Greg...I think it is my responsibility to save up and get them through college. And didn't your dad think it was important to as well (certainly seems like it). So yes, when I had kids, I thought it was part of my responsibility to do everything I could to best prepare them for life and in my opinion exiting school with a giant pile of debt is something I'd like to be able to prevent my kids from having (and I'd like them to pass it on to future generations of "Chisoxfn's"). I can recognize the difficulties in life and try to best position them so that they can have a head start. I am not going to be some parent who isn't involved, who doesn't share my perspectives with them, and instead just goes and spends all the money on myself and say f*** it, you deal with this s***? I'm also not going to spend it all on them (not on materialistic things, but on things that help better prepare and position them, sure I will, to the extent it is within my means).

 

And I'd think it would be pretty rotten (to the extent that you were in a position where you could afford it), if you told your kids to F off (given that your dad did all that for you). Wouldn't you like to pass it forward. Isn't part of the goal of any parent to try and put the next generation in a better spot than where you are (who wants worse for their kids). Now their are absolutely different ways of going about it. Please note, nowhere did I say shower them with fancy cars, buy them fancy apartments, etc., but the facts are the facts, and I'd like to give them head starts that I think would put them in a far better position to be financially independent (life isn't easy so if I can do things to increase probabilities of long-term success for my kids, I'll do all I can...send them to good schools, have them partake in activities, etc, actually be there for them and teach them lessons and talk to them and listen to them).

 

I have no idea what I've gotten myself into (from a parenting perspective...I learn every day on the job) and no idea what my kids will ultimately turn into, but I'll do what I do out of love for them and my wanting them to be in a position to have the best possible foundation where they can succeed in life (give them the best odds, but ultimately, the end game is up to them).

 

Note: Again, this isn't talking about buying them fancy things or ignoring their responsibility. I'm a huge believer in independence and them learning their own lessons and working and going through all those aspects because it makes them stronger. And yes, I actually do think their are extremely valid arguments to be made for why education should extend to a higher level now (I don't know how to pay for it, but given that college is the new norm and given the skillsets we expect out of our economy, I do think there are real reasons to say after high school you go to a trade school or you go to college and at least to some extend their are ways to make it more inclusive / part of our education program or better incentivized). This of course is all presuming I can afford it and doing what I can (I'm not going to travel the world and give my kids the short end of the stick...but if all I can do was put food on the table than well, that is all I can do). Oh and of course I'd be pushing state tuition, etc.

[greg775]

Greg - Who is getting taken advantage of. All of these parents who are allowing it to happen, have control, and they are allowing it to happen. This isn't them doing it against their will. Maybe some of them are upset, but lets face the realities of today's environment. Be realistic. Everyone always wants to blame everyone else or feel better about what they've done vs. recognizing that things can be different and that is okay (and not a negative against new generations). What young people today can accomplish can be pretty incredible given technological advances, etc.

 

How many 20 year old were bagillionaires back in the 50's or 70's or even 80's? Think of the Zuckerberg's and whomever else who are self made trillionaires at such incredibly young ages. The ability to invent and come up with revolutionary technology or processes (Airbnb / Uber), etc, is incredible.

 

Oh and a degree isn't a differentiator in today's day and age, it is a necessity and a bare minimum. People need to figure that out first and foremost, it is the equivalent of what a high school degree was when you graduated. So for you, having a college degree differentiated you....it doesn't differentiate the typical college grad today. I am near certain that overall employment rates for college grades are probably far lower now than they were back when there were fewer college grads, etc.

 

Bottom line, I actually think it is worse for the people who just want to spend time belitting everyone else (which is just an indirect way of telling everyone how amazing they are) should do a 180 and take an ego check. You think a lot of these people don't want to live on their own and be independent. It is there own ego check given the state of the economy and the difference in value of a college education today vs. a generation or two generations ago (along with the fact that the inflation adjusted costs differ greatly as well).

Great post. I shouldn't have assumed they are all lazy bums who don't want to be independent. I think Steve's post got me headed more in that direction.

 

Well Greg...I think it is my responsibility to save up and get them through college. And didn't your dad think it was important to as well (certainly seems like it). So yes, when I had kids, I thought it was part of my responsibility to do everything I could to best prepare them for life and in my opinion exiting school with a giant pile of debt is something I'd like to be able to prevent my kids from having (and I'd like them to pass it on to future generations of "Chisoxfn's"). I can recognize the difficulties in life and try to best position them so that they can have a head start. I certainly don't want to raise my kids, not share my perspectives with them, and just go spend all the money on myself and say f*** it, you deal with this s***?

 

And I'd think it would be pretty rotten, if you took a similar treatment with your own kids (given that your dad did all that for you). Wouldn't you like to pass it forward. Isn't part of the goal of any parent to try and put the next generation in a better spot than where you are (who wants worse for their kids). Now their are absolutely different ways of going about it. Please note, nowhere did I say shower them with fancy cars, buy them fancy apartments, etc., but the facts are the facts, and I'd like to give them head starts that I think would put them in a far better position to be financially independent (life isn't easy so if I can do things to increase probabilities of long-term success for my kids, I'll do all I can...send them to good schools, have them partake in activities, etc, actually be there for them and teach them lessons and talk to them and listen to them).

 

I have no idea what I'll get myself into and no idea what my kids will ultimately turn into, but I'll do what I do out of love for them and my wanting them to be in a position to where they succeed in life.

 

Note: Again, this isn't talking about buying them fancy things or ignoring their responsibility. I'm a huge believer in independence and them learning their own lessons and working and going through all those aspects because it makes them stronger. And yes, I actually do think their are extremely valid arguments to be made for why education should extend to a higher level now (I don't know how to pay for it, but given that college is the new norm and given the skillsets we expect out of our economy, I do think there are real reasons to say after high school you go to a trade school or you go to college and at least to some extend their are ways to make it more inclusive / part of our education program or better incentivized). This of course is all presuming I can afford it and doing what I can (I'm not going to travel the world and give my kids the short end of the stick...but if all I can do was put food on the table than well, that is all I can do). Oh and of course I'd be pushing state tuition, etc.

Yes sir. Great post.

[Rowand44]

Parents paying for college? Some sure but it's getting too expensive even for them!

I went to a pretty wealthy high school(shut up Brian) and almost none of the people I knew had their college paid for by their parents and this was a decade ago.

[greg775]

greg with yet another silly troll post...

 

Parents paying for college? Some sure but it's getting too expensive even for them!

I hear stuff on the radio (haven't watched much TV the last year or so except sports) in the car and it intrigues me. Heard the item about all those kids living at home and it strikes me as very interesting. So I post bout it. It's life, not trolling.

[greg775]

I went to a pretty wealthy high school(shut up Brian) and almost none of the people I knew had their college paid for by their parents and this was a decade ago.

That shocks me. Mom and dad just sent you packing to a good college and said, "Deal with the costs?" For me, growing up in Chicago, later suburbia, any of my friends whose parents had a lot of cold, hard, cash definitely paid for their kids' college. In my case I had summer jobs and stuff and paid for all my incidentals, but yes I was spoiled by daddy in that regard. Free room, board, tuition, books and even made sure I had some money in the bank.Like chisox said I think he felt it was his responsibility to get me through and yes hoped I could pass it down.

Now being a successful businessman and kind of a mean guy, not a patsy, he monitored what was going on with my grades, etc. And he made it clear no five year plan for me. Four years baby. I think as long as he felt he wasn't taken advantage of, five, six year plan, he'd dish out the costs of college.

Edited May 26, 2016 by greg775

[caulfield12]

https://internationalschoolsreviewdiscuss.w...teven-e-hudson/

 

Thought Greg would enjoy this one, although it's on "entitled" students from all around the world, moreso than Americans.

 

The problem is everywhere, not just the US.

 

 

I think it's fair to say the default belief from most American parents is that they would like to pay for at least half...and maybe they believe that summer jobs and part-time work (weekends, mostly) will meet that gap, along with student loans to supplement.

 

I'm kind of in the middle of this. Pretty spoiled only child, my two best friends went to Northwestern and I went to Iowa because 1) I was studying English/History/Political Science and 2) I thought I was doing my parents a favor saving them money and didn't feel justified spending the money it took for a school like NU or ND. After my father died and I realized that it wouldn't have been unreasonable financially, I still felt it was the right decision, because I never had any student debts and have been a teacher/non-profit worker for most of my life now, so why burden myself or family with debt that's harder to pay off at a lower salary?

 

I do think that when you don't have to work (except for summertime in university) at all in fast food or retail, you miss out on an important (and humbling experience). Being allowed to travel, to play sports year-round, I just assumed it was that way for all kids...but I was actually very privileged to have all those opportunities in life and appreciate them more now than I did back then.

 

And having the financial ability to help, it seems cruel not to do so...at least 50%. Don't have to worry about it now, though, as son is only 15 months old. (For now, the biggest debate is how long to stay in China and improve his Chinese/math/science skills vs. the allure of free and high-level education back in the US in Iowa).

Edited May 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[greg775]

https://internationalschoolsreviewdiscuss.w...teven-e-hudson/

 

Thought Greg would enjoy this one, although it's on "entitled" students from all around the world, moreso than Americans.

 

The problem is everywhere, not just the US.

 

 

I think it's fair to say the default belief from most American parents is that they would like to pay for at least half...and maybe they believe that summer jobs and part-time work (weekends, mostly) will meet that gap, along with student loans to supplement.

 

I'm kind of in the middle of this. Pretty spoiled only child, my two best friends went to Northwestern and I went to Iowa because 1) I was studying English/History/Political Science and 2) I thought I was doing my parents a favor saving them money and didn't feel justified spending the money it took for a school like NU or ND. After my father died and I realized that it wouldn't have been unreasonable financially, I still felt it was the right decision, because I never had any student debts and have been a teacher/non-profit worker for most of my life now, so why burden myself or family with debt that's harder to pay off at a lower salary?

 

I do think that when you don't have to work (except for summertime in university) at all in fast food or retail, you miss out on an important (and humbling experience). Being allowed to travel, to play sports year-round, I just assumed it was that way for all kids...but I was actually very privileged to have all those opportunities in life and appreciate them more now than I did back then.

 

And having the financial ability to help, it seems cruel not to do so...at least 50%. Don't have to worry about it now, though, as son is only 15 months old. (For now, the biggest debate is how long to stay in China and improve his Chinese/math/science skills vs. the allure of free and high-level education back in the US in Iowa).

 

Thanks, great article. I can only imagine what grade school teachers go through if they are "hard graders."

[Quin]

Greg works in a college town and doesn't know how student loans work. Amazing.

[Big Hurtin]

Greg works in a college town and doesn't know how student loans work. Amazing.

Greg lives on planet Earth and doesn't realize... , ugh, nevermind.