Dick Allen Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 No to Jay. Sheilds, they would have to eat a bunch of cash. Latos has looked decent his last couple of starts. Velocity picking up a tick and he is striking out more guys, but the long ball is a problem. That is a problem with Shields as well. Bartolo took him deep. Gonzalez has been decent as well. Lucky in some cases, but decent. As long as they show some life, I see no reason to pick up Shields. If Latos hadn't been better his last 2 outings, I could see it, but not now. Keep waiting for something better to open up. If either of these guys goes back to gas can, Shields should still be available for next to nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 08:12 AM) No to Jay. Sheilds, they would have to eat a bunch of cash. Latos has looked decent his last couple of starts. Velocity picking up a tick and he is striking out more guys, but the long ball is a problem. That is a problem with Shields as well. Bartolo took him deep. Gonzalez has been decent as well. Lucky in some cases, but decent. As long as they show some life, I see no reason to pick up Shields. If Latos hadn't been better his last 2 outings, I could see it, but not now. Keep waiting for something better to open up. If either of these guys goes back to gas can, Shields should still be available for next to nothing. I am with you on this logic but I think the Sox are in a position to only get guys like Shields. We dont have the talent to trade for anything better and the couple guys we do have that may be able to get something bigger done would leave the farm empty. Now I am not sure that is something the Sox are afraid to do either actually. I think they realize what they are in evaluating talent through the draft and they are overall better at what they believe in selling high on their minor league guys for major league talent then they are at drafting and developing guys that help them down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 PASS on these declining bums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 08:17 AM) I am with you on this logic but I think the Sox are in a position to only get guys like Shields. We dont have the talent to trade for anything better and the couple guys we do have that may be able to get something bigger done would leave the farm empty. Now I am not sure that is something the Sox are afraid to do either actually. I think they realize what they are in evaluating talent through the draft and they are overall better at what they believe in selling high on their minor league guys for major league talent then they are at drafting and developing guys that help them down the road. They don't have the talent, at least should be unwilling to surrender the talent, but they do have LaRoche's cash. When half the season's paychecks are cashed, his $13 million becomes an ability to stay at projected opening day payroll and acquire $26 million in salary. Plus, the longer you wait, the availability should increase as well. The other thing is, you can wait on Shields. If Latos and/or Gonzalez fail, and he's the only option, fine. But they shouldn't be in a rush to acquire him. Edited June 2, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 08:24 AM) They don't have the talent, at least should be unwilling to surrender the talent, but they do have LaRoche's cash. When half the season's paychecks are cashed, his $13 million becomes an ability to stay at projected opening day payroll and acquire $26 million in salary. Plus, the longer you wait, the availability should increase as well. The other thing is, you can wait on Shields. If Latos and/or Gonzalez fail, and he's the only option, fine. But they shouldn't be in a rush to acquire him. I realize that but my point is that they arent going to be able to go out there and get anything more than a bad contract guy with what seem to be declining skills. We are only in the position to take someone off another teams hands because they don't want that player anymore. Usually, you dont wind up with a whole lot when you are forced to make those kind of moves. I am with you on waiting to see what happens with Gonzalez and Latos and being in no rush to just go and take on someone's contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 07:17 AM) I am with you on this logic but I think the Sox are in a position to only get guys like Shields. We dont have the talent to trade for anything better and the couple guys we do have that may be able to get something bigger done would leave the farm empty. Now I am not sure that is something the Sox are afraid to do either actually. I think they realize what they are in evaluating talent through the draft and they are overall better at what they believe in selling high on their minor league guys for major league talent then they are at drafting and developing guys that help them down the road. Ervin Santana or Phil Hughes might be the best options from a team that knows those guys aren't going to be around any longer when their team is ready to compete (that was SUPPOSED to be THIS year) and would be looking more for salary relief...similar to the Liriano for Escobar/Hernandez trade in 2012. Andrew Cashner's name has come up now and again, his performance hasn't been that good this season but it's one of those does Cooper see a mechanical fix...or Clay Buchholz, for example. Chatwood in Colorado, Tanaka if the Yankees fall out of it (no thanks!), Rich Hill, Marco Estrada, Drew Pomeranz in SD (stay away from those Petco pitchers), Teheran (they're asking for the MLB hitting equivalent of their pitcher, so no go), JA Happ, Dan Straily, Jimmy Nelson in MIL. Those are basically some of the best pitchers this season in terms of WAR that MIGHT be available, and none of them would cause Sox fans to be a little bit excited other than maybe Tanaka (and they'd be just as worried about his contract and arm/shoulder/elbow failing). Simon, Wily Peralta, Anibal Sanchez, Jorge De La Rosa (needs desperately to get away from COL), Shelby Miller, Clay Buchholz, Peavy, Ubaldo Jimenez, Pineda and Severino would be among the ten worst. Nolasco from the Twins also has to be on that market, and the first one the Twins want to dump. And Sonny Gray isn't going anywhere with a 6.19 ERA. Edited June 2, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 12:17 AM) The love of mediocre declining veterans is endless. But I have little doubt that ace evaluator Williams will grant all wishes. Stop me if you have posted this one before... No really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 09:15 AM) Do you just have like three or four posts saved as drafts that you can reuse over and over again? [Control-V] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 08:24 AM) They don't have the talent, at least should be unwilling to surrender the talent, but they do have LaRoche's cash. When half the season's paychecks are cashed, his $13 million becomes an ability to stay at projected opening day payroll and acquire $26 million in salary. Plus, the longer you wait, the availability should increase as well. The other thing is, you can wait on Shields. If Latos and/or Gonzalez fail, and he's the only option, fine. But they shouldn't be in a rush to acquire him. That's a very good point. I didn't really consider the fact that taking on a bigger contract half way through the season and then using the LaRoche money saved is better than taking on a bad contract in say April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 12:17 AM) The love of mediocre declining veterans is endless. But I have little doubt that ace evaluator Williams will grant all wishes. That "ace talent evaluator" helped bring the Sox their first WS in 90 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 09:32 AM) That "ace talent evaluator" helped bring the Sox their first WS in 90 years. Probably the same reason JR hired Jerry Krause to unearth Latin American talent for the White Sox...especially in Central/South America. That one didn't last very long. Loyalty over logic. All that said, KW has a superior eye for talent than Hahn if that was the ONLY qualification to be the GM. Edited June 2, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 10:35 AM) Probably the same reason JR hired Jerry Krause to unearth Latin American talent for the White Sox...especially in Central/South America. That one didn't last very long. Loyalty over logic. All that said, KW has a superior eye for talent than Hahn if that was the ONLY qualification to be the GM. I'm always gona have love for KW because of it. I think it's time he goes or loses some of his power however but I'm not gona listen to the almighty antagonist trash him likes he's some s*** talent evaluator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 So KW deserves the job for life? Because of what happened back in 2005? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 09:54 AM) So KW deserves the job for life? Because of what happened back in 2005? Apparently in the White Sox organization he does. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 10:54 AM) So KW deserves the job for life? Because of what happened back in 2005? QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 10:56 AM) Apparently in the White Sox organization he does. Mark QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 10:42 AM) I'm always gona have love for KW because of it. I think it's time he goes or loses some of his power however but I'm not gona listen to the almighty antagonist trash him likes he's some s*** talent evaluator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 That's not at all what I said. I just said I appreciate what he's done for this organization and I consider myself blessed to have witnessed it. I've said its time for a power structure change however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I would be fine with adding Jay, gives Jackson a platoon partner and gives insurance against further injuries in the OF. An OF of Jay, Jackson, and Eaton defensively would be top notch and Jay gets on base at a decent clip. Johnson, Tatis Jr, and Beck for Shields, Jay, $35M and the #71 draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) I would be fine with adding Jay, gives Jackson a platoon partner and gives insurance against further injuries in the OF. An OF of Jay, Jackson, and Eaton defensively would be top notch and Jay gets on base at a decent clip. Johnson, Tatis Jr, and Beck for Shields, Jay, $35M and the #71 draft pick. You cant trade draft picks in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) You cant trade draft picks in baseball. Yeah, you can. The Braves have acquired a bunch of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) You cant trade draft picks in baseball. Except compensation picks iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 11:26 AM) Yeah, you can. The Braves have acquired a bunch of them. I see that they acquired one so I am not sure if that one falls under what Tex is talking about or what? I cant say I know what the restrictions are on trading picks but they must be so tight its basically non existent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 11:34 AM) I see that they acquired one so I am not sure if that one falls under what Tex is talking about or what? I cant say I know what the restrictions are on trading picks but they must be so tight its basically non existent. Only competitive balance picks can be traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Isn't Shields Aaron Rowand's cousin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 This doesn't come up often but I seem to remember some trades that went down right after the draft that were prearranged. Draft this guy and we'll trade this for that kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 QUOTE (Tex @ Jun 2, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) This doesn't come up often but I seem to remember some trades that went down right after the draft that were prearranged. Draft this guy and we'll trade this for that kind of thing. A PTBNL can not be a draft pick anymore. The new rules dictate that draft picks can't be traded until after the World Series, and that any PTBNL cannot include a player that would have been ineligible to be traded before that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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