White Sox Acquire James Shields

[caulfield12]

Obviously, having Cabrera and Jackson out came at the worst possible time.

 

But it's up to the coaching staff and front office to figure out how to get through it instead of watching things snowball.

 

KC was 1 game under .500 and got to 8 games over while simultaneously having to replace 25-30% of their roster, including 3 All-Stars.

 

Cleveland has been without Brantley, Almonte (PEDS), Byrd (PEDS), Carrasco missed most of the first two months, and yet that hasn't stopped them from getting on a run. Gomes is clearly not back to the same player he was before his injury, either. Their freakin' outfield is Rajai Davis, Lonnie Chisenhall and Jose Ramirez. C'mon!!!! Uribe and Napoli are playing key roles, too.

Edited June 4, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Realisticlly - there's no way to like this trade for this year unless we also complete more trades. There is also little evidence to support the idea that we are not making more trades.

 

By the end of July, or sooner - I fully expect this lineup or similar:

 

Eaton

Cabrera

Abreu

Frazier

Bruce

Lawrie

Jackson

Anderson

Navarro / Avila

 

At which point Bruce will devolve into the player we've seen the last 2-3 seasons in CINCY but the White Sox will be short Spencer Adams.

 

But that's great because we have a stupid compensation pick instead of Desmond or Fowler. That's really helpful about right now, as we're going to have to give up more than the equivalent of that pick just to get rid of all those AB's for Garcia, Sands, Shuck and Rollins.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by caulfield12

[Lip Man 1]

The Sox are just getting out from under the anchor of Danks' bad deal and now this.

 

Even with S.D. paying a lot the Sox still now owe 27 million from what I read.

 

For a mid 30's pitcher probably on the downward track. That's the way to build a "consistent" winner in my book! (sarcasm implied)

 

Kenny strikes again.

 

Mark

[GhostofDickeyKerr]

The Sox are just getting out from under the anchor of Danks' bad deal and now this.

 

Even with S.D. paying a lot the Sox still now owe 27 million from what I read.

 

For a mid 30's pitcher probably on the downward track. That's the way to build a "consistent" winner in my book! (sarcasm implied)

 

Kenny strikes again.

 

Mark

 

Indeed.

[Jack Parkman]

Watch Shields become a Danks-like Albatross and Tatis Jr. become an uber prospect. Sox gonna Sox.

[caulfield12]

I can just see adding Carlos Gonzalez or Bruce tomorrow.

 

Margalus at SSS might need to rethink his position about the Padres being in even worse shape if Anderson and Fulmer both aren't impact players.

 

Honestly, it really sucks being a Sox fan these days when you have guys like Beckham, Quentin, Viciedo and now Abreu start off with such promise and then completely fall apart. Eaton, Frazier and Saladino are the only reasons to watch, with Lawrie also slumping from his earlier form and Coats of course gets hurt his first game in the bigs. Hopefully he's not out for an extended period of time, as he deserves an opportunity for extended playing time. Does anyone enjoy watching Rollins, Avila, Shuck, Sands or Garcia hit? And, for most of the season, Austin Jackson could be added to that list of offensive anemia except at least he plays pretty good D still.

 

Maybe Abreu comes out of it, but he's about as mentally shot as Matt Albers is right now. Feels like the whole team is shell-shocked, even Sale...and that's coming out of a series where they beat the Mets 2/3 on the road.

 

We did give Pelfrey his first win of the season at least.

[scotty22hotty]

Not a bad trade/price for a #4/5 pitcher. Just doesn't make sense since SP isn't really a top priority right now. Improves chances for a wildcard spot so no real reason to complain.

[caulfield12]

Trayce Thompson and Marcus Semien both make the All-Star team, and Frankie Montas becomes an ace set-up guy for Kenley Jansen. That's the direction this season is headed.

 

Heck, for good measure, Trayce will probably be added to the Warriors' roster to play with his brother and rain down 2-3 treys in garbage time in a clinching Game 5 win at Oracle Arena.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'm sorry but I'm starting to be with Balta. This organization sucks from top to bottom. They were a fraudulent team to start and it's showing. I don't hate this trade but it's more of half measures from Kenny.

[GhostofDickeyKerr]

Not a bad trade/price for a #4/5 pitcher. Just doesn't make sense since SP isn't really a top priority right now. Improves chances for a wildcard spot so no real reason to complain.

 

There will be reason to complain when the funds spent in this acquisition are used as an excuse to not improve the offense.

[LittleHurt05]

I know nothing about Tatis and EJ wasn't getting it done with this organization, but its really hard to like anything about this trade. It smells of desperation from a team with much larger holes to fill.

[caulfield12]

And this is one of the two reasons I haven't been posting. Because if you're not a fan of this team, its now personal for too many people.

 

Agreed, 100%.

 

Being compelled to feel a certain way when when your heart and head tells you the opposite just doesn't sit well with me.

 

It's like the more someone tries to convince you that your argument is wrong, the more hardened your position becomes.

 

Having followed the White Sox for most of my 46 years on this planet, that Texas game and this past weekend against the Royals are hard to recover from...you need to have a really good manager, not just an "average/run of the mill" one. And it's not just one specific decision by Ventura, it's a serious of increasingly questionable decisions that have added up over 4+ years. There just haven't been many tangible signs of improvement in his managing, the first time you have hope that the worm has turned, then you have this complete collapse that just sucks the wind out of your sails and makes you want to give up on baseball for a while just for your sanity's sake.

 

We keep hearing managers don't matter...especially the sabermetricians, but they hate discussing something that's not statistically quantifiable beyond something idiotic like pythagorean wins and losses.

Edited June 4, 2016 by caulfield12

[ChiSox59]

He's doom and gloom on the Sox. The Padres were the opposing force against the Sox here so naturally Balta is going to support them. Your take is strong and without holes, but when I have posters messaging me with the "Balta would come back at this time in the Sox season" and "Of course Balta hates the trade" I feel the I have to say something. I wasn't going to nitpick through his argument, but his shtick is annoying people to a point where they come to me to complain or poke fun at it.

 

Youre not alone in your stance. His Bs and obvious agenda has bugged me for years, even when I was just a daily lurker and didn't post.

 

[elrockinMT]

What are we complaining about? A trade to help the team and we predict doom and bad mouth management for trying

[caulfield12]

Youre not alone in your stance. His Bs and obvious agenda has bugged me for years, even when I was just a daily lurker and didn't post.

 

 

He's one of the best five posters on this board, and he knows his stuff about non-baseball related matters as much as anyone here.

 

It doesn't matter what someone's opinions are, or it shouldn't, as long as they are well-informed. And his always have been.

 

If you went back about 5 years, you'd see guys like Balta or Lip were pretty consistently optimistic and hopeful. These last 4-5 seasons have taken a lot out of MANY White Sox fans, which have been reflected in the tv and radio ratings.

 

 

[ChiSox59]

He's one of the best five posters on this board, and he knows his stuff about non-baseball related matters as much as anyone here.

 

It doesn't matter what someone's opinions are, or it shouldn't, as long as they are well-informed. And his always have been.

 

If you went back about 5 years, you'd see guys like Balta or Lip were pretty consistently optimistic and hopeful. These last 4-5 seasons have taken a lot out of MANY White Sox fans, which have been reflected in the tv and radio ratings.

 

Dude knows the game. That's obvious. But it's always doom and gloom. It's annoying as hell. There is no reason to dislike this trade. They gave up close to nothing and got a mid rotation innings eater for under market value. He can be bad and still be worth $9M AAV. I agree that offense and bullpen and bigger priorities, but it's the first week of June.

[caulfield12]

And yeah, I'm usually doom and gloom too, but I have no problems with the trade...partially because I know what Shields has meant to the Rays and Royals from following those two teams closely.

 

The ONLY problem I would have is if they don't address the OTHER obvious, elephant in the room hitting problems...and maybe find a replacement for Avila if he continues to have 0 homers and 2 RBI's into July.

 

One more BIG bat (preferably with an 850+ OPS split against RHP) and a return to health from Jackson and Cabrera in the line-up changes things a lot. Obviously, no 2014-15 Abreu, they're still not going anywhere. Sale, Quintana and Rodon even feel like concerns right now, especially Chris and Carlos, and Jose in the sense that you don't want him to get down on himself again losing all these 1-2 run games with negligible run support.

 

If Anderson and Fulmer are for real, then they just might be okay...not sure about 2016, but going into 2017, they have a shot.

 

It just sucks we've given up so much ground winning the division feels like a pipe dream since we've shown no signs of being able to beat any of our divisional opponents other than the Twins.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Watch Shields become a Danks-like Albatross and Tatis Jr. become an uber prospect. Sox gonna Sox.

 

 

Yeah because they've traded so many young studs away.....

[caulfield12]

Micker Adolfo is more likely to be a stud than Tatis, and the success rate from those signings is a LOT lower than the ROI in free agency, which is still pretty terrible.

 

The last time we developed Latin American players (other than Carlos Sanchez), you have to go back nearly 20 years to Ordonez and Carlos Lee.

 

All the Cubans came ready to play, Alexei, Abreu, Contreras and El Duque. We didn't "develop" Jose Quintana, but they do deserve credit for tracking him with the Mets and Yankees in their minor league systems.

[GreenSox]

E Johnson is major league pitcher, albeit one Cooper didn't like (and it's Cooper's world).

Tatis is/was the best young international player org

I see why the Sox aren't going all in on international players, unlike winning organizations...they don't value them.

 

Meanwhile Williams and Hahn continue to employ Ventura and Cooper.

Edited June 5, 2016 by GreenSox

[Lip Man 1]

Yeah because they've traded so many young studs away.....

 

With respect that's not the point, they probably didn't.

 

What is a valid point is the 27 million they are going to owe a pitcher in his mid 30's with a lot of wear on his arm.

 

The Yankees can afford that type of gamble. The Sox can't because they either can't or won't spend the additional money then to make up for it if he's terrible.

 

Mark

 

[caulfield12]

E Johnson is major league pitcher, albeit one Cooper didn't like (and it's Cooper's world).

Tatis is/was the best young international player org

I see why the Sox aren't going all in on international players, unlike winning organizations...they don't value them.

 

Meanwhile Williams and Hahn continue to employ Ventura and Cooper.

 

 

Cooper also didn't like McCarthy and Hudson for mechanical reasons.

 

That said, I'm still pissed he didn't have a clue how to help Liriano in 2012 after watching him so many freaking time since 2006 and the next year the Pirates' coaching staff came up with a very modern and effective strategy to get the most out of both him and Volquez.

 

Then again, in the NL, Cueto and Shark look like Cy Young candidates when they were terrible in the Central.

Edited June 5, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Personally, I would have waited this one out. Tatis is is a wildcard, so far away, so I wouldn't sweat his loss. EJ has had numerous chances and the same thing keeps happening. There is really no reason to think that won't change, I do think Shields is an upgrade over Gonzalez/Latos, but not a big one. I just hope they still have money to spend on a hitter, and maybe another reliever as Kanle doesn't look like a guy you really want to have on the mound now.

 

Shields will give you an extra inning than the pitcher he replaces, that could help the bullpen. But they need to score runs.

 

A positive is if he can pitch like a #4 starter, that is one less piece next season they have to acquire. Still, I would have waited a bit. Maybe with the owner's comments SD was going to get what they could for him right now, and they couldn't wait, but I see no reason why there would be much of a market for him.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Jack Parkman]

What are we complaining about? A trade to help the team and we predict doom and bad mouth management for trying

They shouldn't be trying. They should be cleaning house at all levels of management and player development, trading whatever assets they have and doing a scorched earth rebuild. I'd rather watch horrendous baseball knowing there is a plan in place than watching horrendous baseball with no plan in place. Re: The piece that that SSS wrote about the Padres, I'd argue that the Padres are at a better and more advantageous place because they realize where they are as an organization. The Sox either have no clue, are in denial, are delusional or a combination of the previous 3. Over the winter of 2014-2015 I said what are they doing, they made a 77-79 win team. They should not have traded off minor leaguers, they should have been gutting the major league roster. Do you think it is any coincidence that once players are here they get worse??? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Until they fix the stench, nothing will change.

 

I have watched 120-145 games/season since 2001. I love baseball as entertainment. I have always said that baseball is your friend, it is there for you every day and even when the game ends, there is a new one tomorrow. I am a Sox fan, so replace baseball with Sox. My friend is betraying me, because I believe my friend will no longer exist in 5-10 years.

 

Furthermore the Cubs success combined with the Sox incompetence, may signal the beginning of the end for the Chicago White Sox. We may be looking back 5-10 years from now saying "Why is there only one team here now?" We would be able to point to 2009-2011 where the fortunes of both teams changed. The Sox took a bad approach by not firing KW and bringing a group of aging "heroes" back for a couple more failed runs rather than starting over from scratch. Might I point out that the last 2 times the Sox started from scratch were the periods from 1986-89 and 1997-99 and from 87-90 they drafted the cornerstones of some highly competitive teams from 1990-94, and trading some of those guys in 1997 turned into pieces of the core of the competitive teams from 2000-06. Maybe they should look back at those successes and wake up.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Elgin Slim

[napa_soxfan]

So unenthused. Entire lineup is batting under 250!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!