White Sox Acquire James Shields

[Chisoxfn]

That was definitely an issue. The rumored trade did come before the shaming, so that was probably done knowing he was gone. The only question would have been was there enough offered from other teams for him to move, or did the Padres owner know he was going to be a White Sox so he ripped him?

 

I do agree, if they weren't trading him, that doesn't get said.

And it was probably the timing that was the reason why the Sox got Shields. Usually in early June teams still aren't ready to start trading veterans (Padres clearly an exception) so given the Sox slide, I'm guessing the front office knew starting pitching was on there list, and given where they were, they needed to react sooner vs. later and this is the direction they had to go (I don't think they make this trade had they now had as bad of a slide as I think it would have bought them more time to wait out the market). I've long felt they were going to be aggressive this deadline and Hahn has given every indication that will be the case. Things don't work in a vacuum and it isn't like I think this is some awful deal and I hope Shields kicks butt (I like the fact that he's actually been on successful teams and pitched in a lot of success games cause the reality is, until this most recent off-season, by and large, the lockeroom was surrounded mainly by guys who have grown up around losing and who haven't benefited from a culture of winning). Yes, there were exceptions but a guy like Shields does bring some valuable intangibles.

 

I hope Shields opts out cause it means he'd have pitched this club to like a world series cause it is going to take some epic run (including post-season success) to get him more money than what he currently is set to get.

[Balta1701]

That was definitely an issue. The rumored trade did come before the shaming, so that was probably done knowing he was gone. The only question would have been was there enough offered from other teams for him to move, or did the Padres owner know he was going to be a White Sox so he ripped him?

 

I do agree, if they weren't trading him, that doesn't get said.

I have no special insight into the Padres but "owner who put a lot of money into a player and then loses his temper at that player after an embarrassing game and 1.5 frustrating seasons after he spent a lot of money and was promised results and then the team has to dump the player as fast as possible" doesn't seem like an impossible sequence to me. The owner jumping on him before the trade was announced but while the trade was done seems like impressive enough 3-dimensional chess playing that my instinct is that an owner-outburst seems more likely to me.

[Dick Allen]

I think if the White Sox hesitate, the Padres take the 2nd best offer.

I wouldn't disagree. We will never know, but that outing certainly didn't help the Padres side of things. One of the national guys said a couple teams backed off after that. It would seem to me they weren't too serious then to begin with. Everyone has a bad game, and he actually was a bad call from saving himself 8 runs I believe.

[Chisoxfn]

I wouldn't disagree. We will never know, but that outing certainly didn't help the Padres side of things. One of the national guys said a couple teams backed off after that. It would seem to me they weren't too serious then to begin with. Everyone has a bad game, and he actually was a bad call from saving himself 8 runs I believe.

Yeah - I think it is absurd when people write off guys or don't acquire someone because of one game (unless an injury surfaced). Bad games are going to happen. That said, often times it is hard to seperate the emotion from the list.

[shysocks]

You probably wouldn't have gotten Shields then.

What a disaster that would have been, not having the opportunity to pay James Shields for the next 2.5 seasons.

 

Sorry. Just popping in to dump some afternoon salt.

[Dick Allen]

I have no special insight into the Padres but "owner who put a lot of money into a player and then loses his temper at that player after an embarrassing game and 1.5 frustrating seasons after he spent a lot of money and was promised results and then the team has to dump the player as fast as possible" doesn't seem like an impossible sequence to me. The owner jumping on him before the trade was announced but while the trade was done seems like impressive enough 3-dimensional chess playing that my instinct is that an owner-outburst seems more likely to me.

I doubt it. Everything about the trade was already reported by that barstool fellow except for the money. Up until then, Shields wasn't doing too badly. Owners lose their temper all the time. If anyone is ever at a White Sox game in the club level, you can see JR's suite. Look in there when something bad happens. He's not lighting cigars with $100 bills. He gets pretty agitated. But unless your name is George Steinbrenner, owners calling out players by name in public is very rare. I really doubt he gets singled out if there was much of a chance Shields were still going to be taking the mound for them.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Dick Allen

[GreenSox]

The problem with acquiring a guy like Shields is if he does what he was acquired to do, be a 4th starter, it will be a disappointment to the majority of fans who expect him to be an ace.

Anyone who expects him to be an ace needs a new prescription.

If he can go 7 and give up 3, he's that #4 guy (probably a 5 on a really good team).

 

Latos, season wide, has been a 5. Gonzales not really that (but slowly improving I suppose).

 

So, if the Sox can get 7 give up 3, he'll be a help.

My issue is that I don't think he can deliver that. But maybe he can - when you're on a bad team like the Padres, it's easy to lose focus, etc.

Edited June 6, 2016 by GreenSox

[CB2.0]

I think if the White Sox hesitate, the Padres take the 2nd best offer.

 

I wonder if many teams saw enough value in him to pay even 1/2 his contract if it meant giving up anything at the MLB level. The Sox just so happened to be carrying 6 SPs.

 

[southsider2k5]

Yeah - I think it is absurd when people write off guys or don't acquire someone because of one game (unless an injury surfaced). Bad games are going to happen. That said, often times it is hard to seperate the emotion from the list.

 

Barring injury or something similar, there is no good reason to drop pursuit of a guy based on one game.

[Chisoxfn]

Anyone who expects him to be an ace needs a new prescription.

If he can go 7 and give up 3, he's that #4 guy (probably a 5 on a really good team).

 

Latos, season wide, has been a 5. Gonzales not really that (but slowly improving I suppose).

 

So, if the Sox can get 7 give up 3, he'll be a help.

My issue is that I don't think he can deliver that. But maybe he can - when you're on a bad team like the Padres, it's easy to lose focus, etc.

If he can go 7 and give up 3, he's a #2/#3 on most teams, a #3 on a good team.

[southsider2k5]

If he can go 7 and give up 3, he's a #2/#3 on most teams, a #3 on a good team.

 

Let me put it this way. 7 innings and 3 ER is an era of 3.86. Shields has been below a 3.86 era in every full season he has pitched since 2010. Shields had an era of just over 3 before the 10 run disaster where he was left out there to rot on the vine. In fact if Shields is pulled after he gave up 7 runs in 2 IP in that game, instead of being sent out again for the 3rd inning, his era for the season is sitting at 3.91, or almost exactly what 3 runs every 7 innings would average out to.

[Y2Jimmy0]

White Sox got an innings eating middle of the rotation starter for below market value and gave up nothing to acquire him. Of course people are angry. People are stupid.

[Chisoxfn]

Let me put it this way. 7 innings and 3 ER is an era of 3.86. Shields has been below a 3.86 era in every full season he has pitched since 2010. Shields had an era of just over 3 before the 10 run disaster where he was left out there to rot on the vine. In fact if Shields is pulled after he gave up 7 runs in 2 IP in that game, instead of being sent out again for the 3rd inning, his era for the season is sitting at 3.91, or almost exactly what 3 runs every 7 innings would average out to.

Yes, his ERA would be that, but his ERA was not indicative of how he had been pitching this year. I agree his stats are skewed, plus there is a difference between 7 innings and 3 running's and something less than that. The bold statement if he's good for 7 innings and 3 runs most outings, well, that is not something a huge list of pitchers can do. And his ERA benefited from pitching half his games @ PETCO.

[Hatchetman]

The Sox were willing to pay more than 28 other teams.

[southsider2k5]

Yes, his ERA would be that, but his ERA was not indicative of how he had been pitching this year. I agree his stats are skewed, plus there is a difference between 7 innings and 3 running's and something less than that. The bold statement if he's good for 7 innings and 3 runs most outings, well, that is not something a huge list of pitchers can do. And his ERA benefited from pitching half his games @ PETCO.

 

Agreed. A solid innings eating pitcher is not an easy thing to find. Getting a guy who will pull down 200 to 230 innings per year makes a big difference. Let me put it this way. If you get 210 innings out of Shields (30 starts x 7 IP average) versus 165 innings out of a guy like Gonzalez (30 x 5.5 IP average) that is a difference of 45 IP being pitched by your bullpen. Dan Jennings pitched 56 innings last season. Adding a guy like Shields is literally saving almost an entire season's worth of IP for a reliever in your bullpen.

[Dick Allen]

Agreed. A solid innings eating pitcher is not an easy thing to find. Getting a guy who will pull down 200 to 230 innings per year makes a big difference. Let me put it this way. If you get 210 innings out of Shields (30 starts x 7 IP average) versus 165 innings out of a guy like Gonzalez (30 x 5.5 IP average) that is a difference of 45 IP being pitched by your bullpen. Dan Jennings pitched 56 innings last season. Adding a guy like Shields is literally saving almost an entire season's worth of IP for a reliever in your bullpen.

Plus it moves Gonzalez to the bullpen which, depending on how Latos holds up, could save you from having to acquire maybe even 2 bullpen pieces. The more that one thinks about this, the more it makes sense, assuming Shields can deliver the goods at the level the White Sox expect.

[Black_Jack29]

I just hope that Shields is more like 2015 Danks than 2016 Danks. His loss of velocity makes me a little nervous.

 

[Black_Jack29]

Plus it moves Gonzalez to the bullpen which, depending on how Latos holds up, could save you from having to acquire maybe even 2 bullpen pieces. The more that one thinks about this, the more it makes sense, assuming Shields can deliver the goods at the level the White Sox expect.

 

I feel bad for Gonzalez. His last few starts were pretty solid.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

We'll see. If he performs as you suggest AND the Sox at least seriously contend for the playoffs, the trade will have worked.

 

But I think the only way this team contends is to do what this board has been begging them to do - trade any prospect necessary (with the requisite holdback of Anderson) for Brewers, Reds and Rockies. And it will be all or nothing for 16 and 17. And then nothing for a long time.

 

Me, I wish they had continued what they started in 2013 for 2 more years: a sensible build-up of organizational depth. that would have allowed for contention for years to come, starting in 17.

 

Help me out here GreenSox. How many young guys have the Sox traded for in the last few years. I can think of Davidson , Eaton , Avisail Garcia and Michael Ynoa.

 

Nevermind I'm looking it up.Got a couple of stiffs for DeAza who are no longer in the org. August 2014.

 

Frankie Montas, Cleuluis Rondon and JB Wendelken in the Peavy trade. Rondon is the only one left .

 

Tommy Kahnle from the Rockies, Conor Gillaspie from the Giants and Ranaudo recently from the Rangers though basically all of these guys were just very minor deals , minor leaguers for minor leaguers.

 

By the way who is this 25 yr. old hitting .279 .362 OBP 9 HR's .566 SLG and .928 OPS. If the Sox had this guy do you think he would be considered the most offensively well rounded player on the team with those stats ?

[Dick Allen]

I feel bad for Gonzalez. His last few starts were pretty solid.

His last one he was Houdini with the leadoff walks, but he has been decent. Certainly decent enough to be a #5 starter. But he's still in the show, and is there if Latos can't do the job.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

White Sox got an innings eating middle of the rotation starter for below market value and gave up nothing to acquire him. Of course people are angry. People are stupid.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say they are stupid. That is rude and ill informed. It's basically a move for this year and next year. It seems as though many moves the Sox have made have no future beyond 2017 and that's the whole point All have been patchwork moves giving up talented cost controlled youngsters who do have futures that will vary greatly but have a chance to be better.

 

How have all these moves worked out the past few years ? Are the Sox any better now than they might be if they had just kept some of these kids ? Hard to know, but it's just seems as though the Sox are spinning their wheels the past few years while giving the fans nothing to look forward to .

Edited June 6, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

I wouldn't go so far as to say they are stupid. That is rude and ill informed. It's basically a move for this year and next year. It seems as though many moves the Sox have made have no future beyond 2017 and that's the whole point All have been patchwork moves giving up talented cost controlled youngsters who do have futures that will vary greatly but have a chance to be better.

 

How have all these moves worked out the past few years ? Are the Sox any better now than they might be if they had just kept some of these kids ? Hard to know, but it's just seems as though the Sox are spinning their wheels the past few years while giving the fans nothing to look forward to .

 

It is very fair to look at this as a free agent signing for 2017 and 2018, in addition to being a trade for 2016.

[GreenSox]

.928 OPS. If the Sox had this guy do you think he would be considered the most offensively well rounded player on the team with those stats ?

Right on the money.

 

I deleted the rest of my gibberish and my apologies again.

Edited June 6, 2016 by GreenSox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Davidson hasn't worked out (although he's having a good year).

Eaton has been very good.

Avisail is part of the Rodon, Montas, Wendelken. Montas was a top 50 prospect and part of the Frazier trade. Wendelkin was part of the Lawrie trade. Rodon can't hit. I assume that that you wanted to KEEP Peavy on that 62 win team????? Whatever that trade was, it brought back a lot more value than a year and 2 months of Peavy would have brought to the major league club.

 

De Aza, Rios and Beckham were dumped for nothing. What they got were not real prospects. Maybe they should have gotten

something better, maybe they shouldn't, but there's nothing for me to defend because none of those prospects were held in any regard by anyone.

 

 

Okay. Nothing for nothing. And?

 

 

I'm sorry - you're telling ME, ME that we should have kept Trayce Thompson? What do you think I've been talking about every day?

 

I don't know how you misunderstood my intent in making my comments to you. I am actually supporting you . I must have made 5 posts during the off season about trying to get Trayce back. Maybe you are so used to being attacked around here you automatically think you are under attack.

 

I hope you have read the post I made after that regarding the Shields trade. Maybe that will make things clearer.

 

I took my share of grief also for also liking Montas while everyone else was thinking Fulmer was awesome . I didn't understand why Mpontas was being pegged as a reliever whereas so many thought Fulmer had the better shot at being a satrter. Both had critics who saw them as future BP pieces but somehow around here Fulmer got all the support.

Edited June 6, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

I wouldn't go so far as to say they are stupid. That is rude and ill informed. It's basically a move for this year and next year. It seems as though many moves the Sox have made have no future beyond 2017 and that's the whole point All have been patchwork moves giving up talented cost controlled youngsters who do have futures that will vary greatly but have a chance to be better.

 

How have all these moves worked out the past few years ? Are the Sox any better now than they might be if they had just kept some of these kids ? Hard to know, but it's just seems as though the Sox are spinning their wheels the past few years while giving the fans nothing to look forward to .

 

 

RF Eaton

2B Tim Anderson

1B Jose Abreu

DH Melky Cabrera (Hayes/Coats)

LF Ian Desmond/Fowler/Trumbo or Michael Saunders (trade)

CF Trayce Thompson

SS Marcus Semien

C BLACK HOLE

3B Juan Uribe (Davidson/Trey M./Delmonico)

 

UTIL Saladino

 

Now that team has much more balance, although it's a bit light in homers in the clean-up spot with Frazier removed...seemingly, you've got 5-7 to more than make up for that, and Uribe has occasional pop too, even at his age. And it would have four home grown players as well as one of my personal all-time favorites in Juan Game Winning Uribe.

 

I'd MUCH MUCH rather watch that team from a fan standpoint than what we have right now (much younger, more dynamic/exciting/athletic). The bottom 3 would still be relatively weak, but it would have offensive pop and not be 600-650 OPS weak.

 

Plus, you'd still have Montas in reserve to throw into the bullpen or save having to trade for James Shields.

 

And you'd have a lot more financial flexibility and future years of control, to where you wouldn't have to tear things apart after 2017.

Edited June 6, 2016 by caulfield12