Quin Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 12:25 AM) I ignore Caulfield posts, but I would bet $ it's about Erik Johnson and the Nationals. Tell me I'm wrong. You win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 :shocker: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The Shields acquistion is pretty mind boggling in retrospect. He has shown nothing this season and we get him and predictably his first two outings are worse than any Erik Johnson outings (with the Sox; he had a lousy start with SD). If Sox are gonna throw away money like that, think how they could have spent that money better last offseason. Shields is even worse than Peavy right now IMO. I mean is Shields going to be any better than Danks?? Shields is so bad so far in a Sox uniform it's beyond belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2016 -> 11:11 PM) Erik Johnson getting rocked again tonight, this time against the Nationals. The only former starting pitcher to get "up in arms" about tonight is Junior Guerra if you're inclined to do so. I would take 5 ER against the Nats then the s*** Shields has given us. And at least Johnson is young and cost peanuts. If Shields can't get it together this is a horrible trade even though it looked good on paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Wait, someone who's ignoring me can still accurately predict my post will be about Erik Johnson? Hmm...this site is too funny sometimes. It probably should ONLY be Greg talking about Bachelor parties and Hillary Clinton, that would be more enjoyable. As far as James Shields' go, there's really nowhere to go but up. It had a bit of a desperation feel, but that has worked out perfectly fine with Tim Anderson (so far), so I guess we have no choice but to roll with it since we're stuck with him for the next 2 1/2 years unless he has a dramatic transformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 08:10 AM) But James Shields will likely make us regret trading for James Shields and his 2.5 year encumbrance. Erik Johnson won't be a top of the rotation guy, nor probably a mid., but he can provide competent back-end performance. Sox will be lucky if Shields provides that Sox seem to find little value in back end young pitchers or position players their eagle-eyes for talent deem "utility"...yet they repeatedly trade or otherwise acquire veterans who can't even provide that. Erik Johnson is Dylan Axelrod with a fastball that is 2 MPH faster and a worse breaking ball. James Shields has actually had success and knows how to pitch. I've never seen anything from Johnson that suggested he had command or control or dominant stuff to get me excited about him. The only thing that ever gave any sort of excitement were his minor league numbers, and I've learned to take those with a grain of salt. James Shields also hasn't suddenly lost the entirety of his velocity or his command. He just needs to be a league average pitcher. If he can't do that, then they have problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) Make it 3 starts in a row that Shields has got rocked. I've never mentioned the word ace and James Shields in the same sentence. Shields keeps this up and he will be a DFA candidate just like Latos. And 5 starts in a row that Chris Sale has looked like a mid to back of the rotation starter. I can hear the fans screaming "WE WANT JOHNSON! ERIK JOHNSON!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 06:05 AM) Shields 5.45 ERA looks so much better Those starts were across 3 seasons. And it's not like our guy who replaced him (Danks) was any better. But we'll trot guys like Shields out there in their age 36-37 season just because they are paid the most. So basically, to have any prayer of contention in the coming years, Fulmer will need to come up and be a #3/4 caliber guy from day one. The question is, if we can't afford to cut loose bad players who are paid a lot why are we aggressively trading for wild cards with a financial commitment lasting 2-3 seasons? Organizational philosophy here is terrible. Incorrect. Those stats were across 4 seasons. He was given multiple opportunities on multiple occasions and failed multiple times. The White Sox gave John Danks 88 starts to see what he had left. They got rid of him because he was DNR. Shields' has life, he actually has stuff. Stuff doesn't mean you're good, but if you think he's done because he's had two bad starts with the White Sox, 3 bad starts in a row, and that the Sox would be better with Danks, then I have ocean view property to sell you in my backyard buddy. "if we can't afford to cut loose bad players who are paid a lot" I've missed a bit the past year a half or so, but this year alone, I've counted John Danks, Mat Latos, and Jimmy Rollins. What other player would you cut that fits your criteria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 08:12 AM) If the White Sox were concerned about his mechanics and ready to trade him after just 3 starts...what's to say that other GM's wouldn't have identified the same issue/s (mechanics/injury risk) with him, or heard whispers around the batting cage that Cooper was frustrated and ready to cut bait, etc.? It's not like it's always a slam dunk that you can trade a top prospect for an established veteran major league pitcher with that kind of talent...Jackson had stretches of success in LA, TB and especially with the Tigers. Maybe so. The Hudson chapters in Jeff Passan's The Arm are fascinating. Kevin Towers loved him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 03:09 AM) Shields' has life, he actually has stuff. I hope you're right about that. Because if you are, they should be able to correct his issues, given his long history of solid pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 09:49 AM) I hope you're right about that. Because if you are, they should be able to correct his issues, given his long history of solid pitching. Do you watch the games? If so, you can tell Shields still does have great movement on all his pitches. Just a matter of fixing his mechanics right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) Do you watch the games? If so, you can tell Shields still does have great movement on all his pitches. Just a matter of fixing his mechanics right now. His very first batter he struck out a guy on an unhittable pitch with great movement. Then it all fell apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 10:21 AM) His very first batter he struck out a guy on an unhittable pitch with great movement. Then it all fell apart. Lol yeah. I was like wow nasty 2-seamer to Revere to start the game. Ended up turning off the game in the first inning lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 If we considered every pitcher who had a horrible 3 game stretch to be done then every pitcher in the game not named Clayton Kershaw would be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 looks like maybe the worst 3 game stretch since 1950. And Sox have 3 of the worst 5! Rk Name Games IP H R ER ▾ BB SO HR ERA 1 James Shields 3 9.2 25 24 23 10 4 6 21.41 2 Jeremy Bonderman 3 13 24 23 23 7 4 6 15.92 3 Jeff Samardzija 3 15.1 23 22 22 6 9 5 12.91 4 Felipe Paulino 3 13 28 22 22 10 8 6 15.23 5 Sean O'Sullivan 3 14.2 30 19 18 3 8 6 11.05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 11:59 AM) looks like maybe the worst 3 game stretch since 1950. And Sox have 3 of the worst 5! Rk Name Games IP H R ER ▾ BB SO HR ERA 1 James Shields 3 9.2 25 24 23 10 4 6 21.41 2 Jeremy Bonderman 3 13 24 23 23 7 4 6 15.92 3 Jeff Samardzija 3 15.1 23 22 22 6 9 5 12.91 4 Felipe Paulino 3 13 28 22 22 10 8 6 15.23 5 Sean O'Sullivan 3 14.2 30 19 18 3 8 6 11.05 To be fair, only 2 of the 3 for Shields were with the White Sox. Coop will fix 'em. Seems unreal there have only been 5 stretches of pitchers having an 11.00 ERA over 3 consecutive starts in the last 65 years. Edited June 17, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) To be fair, only 2 of the 3 for Shields were with the White Sox. Coop will fix 'em. Seems unreal there have only been 5 stretches of pitchers having an 11.00 ERA over 3 consecutive starts in the last 65 years. Really does seem strange. Is that list right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 search was less than 5 innings, more than 6 runs each. don't know if it is accurate, just what baseball reference spit out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) You are selectively looking at stats to fit your narrative. In my case I have a decade of stats, versus the last three starts that are poisoning the well. As to the unrelated second part about Latos, I didn't cut him, so I can't speak to why the White Sox did. But if I had to guess, my guess would be they are looking at the fact that he was pretty bad in 2015 as well, plus the fact that it wasn't just two or three bad starts in a row. He actually put up 6 out of 7 non-quality starts in a row. Latos being cut also probably had a lot to do with Gonzalez having pitched better than he had, plus James Shields pretty much being a done deal. Now we need to take away another one of his bad starts from consideration to get to that magical 3.06 ERA. Wanna just admit that you're wrong yet? Or double down on this insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Can anyone think of a move (FA or trade) in recent Sox history that backfired so spectacularly? Hard to come up with one...and there's plenty of candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 07:13 PM) Can anyone think of a move (FA or trade) in recent Sox history that backfired so spectacularly? Hard to come up with one...and there's plenty of candidates. Two starts. Calm down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 05:14 PM) Two starts. Calm down. 4 starts in a row bud. SEA, WSH, DET, CLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 07:18 PM) 4 starts in a row bud. SEA, WSH, DET, CLE I just got home. I retract my statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Billy Botch as closer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 I guess Coats isn't as good defensively as a lot believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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