Morrissey: JR/Sox don't care what fans think/want

[Wanne]

Toews, Kane, and Keith revitalized the Blackhawks.

 

Yeah...but it wasn't until the old man died and Rocky took over that they actually had some competence in the organization. And what was one of the first things he did?...canned Savard as HC and brought in Quenneville. We're at that crossroad. Robin is Denis Savard....he needs to go.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

And if you run an organization without any accountability you will have no chance. Sometimes those "meathead" fans are right and this is one of those times. Robin is a joke and needs to go.

Exactly. I wouldn't call many on here meatheads. This is a very knowledgeable board. I think the biggest issue with this organization is the accountability or lack-thereof

[The Beast]

I guess we will have to wait until the end of the year to see the changes. I would love to see Renteria get a chance now but I don't think that's going to solve anything. Kenny Williams getting fired and JR selling the team would help, but I honestly think the Sox will move in the next ten years. I went to the Cubs game today because of my fiancé and can't see the Sox competing and staying afloat financially even though deep down I hope they do and get families to the park since that's where I think they can compete with the Cubs. Do you guys think we need to worry about a move?

[GhostofDickeyKerr]

I guess we will have to wait until the end of the year to see the changes. I would love to see Renteria get a chance now but I don't think that's going to solve anything. Kenny Williams getting fired and JR selling the team would help, but I honestly think the Sox will move in the next ten years. I went to the Cubs game today because of my fiancé and can't see the Sox competing and staying afloat financially even though deep down I hope they do and get families to the park since that's where I think they can compete with the Cubs. Do you guys think we need to worry about a move?

 

There's no particular reason for Chicago to have two teams. Clearly the city only cares about one of them.

[Chicago White Sox]

I guess we will have to wait until the end of the year to see the changes. I would love to see Renteria get a chance now but I don't think that's going to solve anything. Kenny Williams getting fired and JR selling the team would help, but I honestly think the Sox will move in the next ten years. I went to the Cubs game today because of my fiancé and can't see the Sox competing and staying afloat financially even though deep down I hope they do and get families to the park since that's where I think they can compete with the Cubs. Do you guys think we need to worry about a move?

No, not at all.

[Lip Man 1]

I guess we will have to wait until the end of the year to see the changes. I would love to see Renteria get a chance now but I don't think that's going to solve anything. Kenny Williams getting fired and JR selling the team would help, but I honestly think the Sox will move in the next ten years. I went to the Cubs game today because of my fiancé and can't see the Sox competing and staying afloat financially even though deep down I hope they do and get families to the park since that's where I think they can compete with the Cubs. Do you guys think we need to worry about a move?

 

If you think the situation is bad now (and it is) just wait till the Cubs start their own TV network in three years.

 

Mark

[greg775]

There's no particular reason for Chicago to have two teams. Clearly the city only cares about one of them.

Sell the team. Move the team to Naperville for gawd sakes. Build a fricking palace (like the one they had in Arlington; same principle; Arlington is not Dallas). The suburbs will go CRAZY for White Sox baseball. Very true you are offending a lot of loyal baby boomer south siders who don't wanna come out to suburbia. That's sad, but how many people you talking about there? 10,000 max true South Siders who go to games? The true blue collar Sox fans from the south side probably can't afford tickets/parking/food anyway.

New owner. New palace in suburbia privately funded. Just.Do.It. Naperville is the spot. The only people against it would be 50 to 70 year old white guys who live on the south side and eat their beef sandwiches and drink their Schlitz/Old Style. True, they won't be caught dead driving to Naperville, but there's not a ton of them anyway.

 

The money is in suburbia anyway. Make us the elite team. New rich owner! New awesome stadium! The Chicago White Sox play in Naperville!!! Can you dig it?

Edited May 31, 2016 by greg775

[caulfield12]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...?client=safari#

 

 

Haugh: The Sox Situation Cries Out for a Change They're Unlikely to Make

[kitekrazy]

Sell the team. Move the team to Naperville for gawd sakes. Build a fricking palace (like the one they had in Arlington; same principle; Arlington is not Dallas). The suburbs will go CRAZY for White Sox baseball. Very true you are offending a lot of loyal baby boomer south siders who don't wanna come out to suburbia. That's sad, but how many people you talking about there? 10,000 max true South Siders who go to games? The true blue collar Sox fans from the south side probably can't afford tickets/parking/food anyway.

New owner. New palace in suburbia privately funded. Just.Do.It. Naperville is the spot. The only people against it would be 50 to 70 year old white guys who live on the south side and eat their beef sandwiches and drink their Schlitz/Old Style. True, they won't be caught dead driving to Naperville, but there's not a ton of them anyway.

 

The money is in suburbia anyway. Make us the elite team. New rich owner! New awesome stadium! The Chicago White Sox play in Naperville!!! Can you dig it?

 

Move them out of state where there is no MLB. Create a new fan base. People will tolerate a relocated losing organization. Plus more TV revenue.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Move them out of state where there is no MLB. Create a new fan base. People will tolerate a relocated losing organization. Plus more TV revenue.

There is absolutely no market that offers more upside than a split Chicago. Montreal is probably the closest thing and MLB will likely be adding a team there anyways when they expand to 32 teams in the not too distant future. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that our franchise would be better off moving, but the notion is pure garbage.

[The Beast]

If you think the situation is bad now (and it is) just wait till the Cubs start their own TV network in three years.

 

Mark

How so? I'm not familiar with TV deals outside of the fact that they create revenue.

[The Beast]

There is absolutely no market that offers more upside than a split Chicago. Montreal is probably the closest thing and MLB will likely be adding a team there anyways when they expand to 32 teams in the not too distant future. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that our franchise would be better off moving, but the notion is pure garbage.

I can't think of one - some person wrote that Portland would be a good idea, I don't think it would. I do think that a new owner would really help the Sox, but I wonder if they'd want to keep the team at the Cell, in the suburbs or move out of Illinois. Financially, I doubt the state has enough revenue to help pick up the tab to build another stadium in the suburbs, even though I would love the Chicago White Sox of Oakbrook.

[caulfield12]

I'm pretty sure the Mariners have territorial rights over Vancouver and Portland, but I'd have to double-check that.

 

Not quite the same as the A's trying to move to San Jose and being blocked by the Giants, or the internecine warfare between the Orioles and Nationals for the last decade.

Edited May 31, 2016 by caulfield12

[Lip Man 1]

How so? I'm not familiar with TV deals outside of the fact that they create revenue.

 

Considering Seattle, Arizona and St. Louis recently got deals in excess of multiple Billion dollars, should the Cubs continue to do well on the field they will probably get the most amount of money in history for a TV deal.

 

Crain Kenney already told the media this off season of their plans and because of the expected windfall they took the gamble and signed Heyward to that mega contract. Meaning they know what's coming.

 

They'll be able to basically sign everyone and anyone they wish because of the TV money they'll be getting. Plus advertising and marketing companies will be falling all over themselves and willing to pay just about anything to advertise with them.

 

In short, they'll have more money than God and suck up a lot of the potential advertising / marketing / PR deals for themselves.

 

There won't be much left for the Sox. Plus if the Sox continue to embarrass themselves and make themselves irrelevant in their own market when their TV deal expires (unfortunately for them at the same time as the Cubs basically) they won't even sniff what teams like Seattle and Arizona got...it simply will not be there.

 

Not a good situation at all.

 

Mark

[Thad Bosley]

Considering Seattle, Arizona and St. Louis recently got deals in excess of multiple Billion dollars, should the Cubs continue to do well on the field they will probably get the most amount of money in history for a TV deal.

 

Crain Kenney already told the media this off season of their plans and because of the expected windfall they took the gamble and signed Heyward to that mega contract. Meaning they know what's coming.

 

They'll be able to basically sign everyone and anyone they wish because of the TV money they'll be getting. Plus advertising and marketing companies will be falling all over themselves and willing to pay just about anything to advertise with them.

 

In short, they'll have more money than God and suck up a lot of the potential advertising / marketing / PR deals for themselves.

 

There won't be much left for the Sox. Plus if the Sox continue to embarrass themselves and make themselves irrelevant in their own market when their TV deal expires (unfortunately for them at the same time as the Cubs basically) they won't even sniff what teams like Seattle and Arizona got...it simply will not be there.

 

Not a good situation at all.

 

Mark

The Cubs were a dormant, slumbering giant of a franchise for a very long time, fully capable of realizing the potential of which you speak but had not. And for over three decades the current ownership group had a chance to get out in front of this and take steps to cement and maximize the Sox' place in the market, but did not. The level of relevancy that Jerry Reinsdorf's White Sox have in the market both locally and nationally today is the same as it was when he took over the team in late 1980. And it is this level of relevancy that Eddie Einhorn mocked on the first day of the current regime's ownership when he started spouting off about turning the Sox into a "first class organization". How has that turned out, now nearly 36 years later? It's pretty obvious. As a wise man once said, "Actions speak louder than words".

Edited May 31, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Hatchetman]

The worst part of it all, if the Sox move, the fans will be blamed and not the idiot who ran the team into oblivion.

[Lip Man 1]

The Cubs were a dormant, slumbering giant of a franchise for a very long time, fully capable of realizing the potential of which you speak but had not. And for over three decades the current ownership group had a chance to get out in front of this and take steps to cement and maximize the Sox' place in the market, but did not. The level of relevancy that Jerry Reinsdorf's White Sox have in the market both locally and nationally today is the same as it was when he took over the team in late 1980. And it is this level of relevancy that Eddie Einhorn mocked on the first day of the current regime's ownership when he started spouting off about turning the Sox into a "first class organization". How has that turned out, now nearly 36 years later? It's pretty obvious. As a wise man once said, "Actions speak louder than words".

 

Just FYI, Mike Veeck's take on that comment. From my interview with him:

 

ML: That group made the first in a long line of faux paux's when Eddie Einhorn made a statement the day they bought the club along the lines of ‘we’re going to start running a first class operation.’ Many Sox fans and reportedly your dad were shocked and insulted by that comment. Making it worse was that your dad was right there when it was said. How did your dad and the Veeck family feel about that comment?

 

MV: “We have never equated money with class. Just because we didn’t wear two hundred dollar shirts and three thousand dollar suits didn’t mean we didn’t have manners or didn’t respect other people. The one thing that my family has always done first and foremost was respect the fans of baseball and the game of baseball.”

 

ML: I have heard that supposedly, Eddie Einhorn over the years privately apologized to your dad and tried to mend fences with him to no avail. Is that true?

 

MV: “No Eddie Einhorn never apologized for that remark, Jerry Reinsdorf did, and there is a difference between those two men.”

 

ML: Mike you’ve followed the Sox in various forms and capacities for forty years. You were here when the Sox owned Chicago, won on the field seemingly every season, and got the lion’s share of the media coverage. Today it’s completely opposite. The Sox have been ignored starting around the mid 80's. How did this happen, what in your opinion has gone wrong with the marketing / PR / on field approach that this ownership group has taken?

 

MV: “When you veer from your history you take chances. We were proud of the ‘blue collar / working class’ nature of our fans. Our fans worked for a living, that’s why we played night games. Being a Sox fan isn’t for the faint. We were the team of “Jungle” Jim Rivera, Earl Torgeson and Early Wynn. Day baseball is for the Cubs. The club has gone away from their history.”

 

“Old Comiskey Park was destroyed and it didn’t need to be, it could have been fixed for a modest amount of money... that hurt many fans. When the Sox announced the formation of ‘Golden Box Seats,’ I had to laugh...’Golden Box Seats’... just exactly what is that outside of a way to raise ticket prices? Eddie Einhorn said that the Sox would never have rock and roll concerts at Comiskey Park like we did, like it was distasteful. Three years later Michael Jackson played at Comiskey Park..”

 

“The Sox owned every underdog in Chicago. The Sox were much more comfortable to them. If I had a part of this club I’d have so much fun at the Cubs’ expense. I would not be ‘politically correct.’ Chicagoans expect that, they embrace honesty. ‘Disco Demolition’ was ridiculed, but it got the Sox into Rolling Stone magazine.”

 

Mark

Edited May 31, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[southsider2k5]

Considering Seattle, Arizona and St. Louis recently got deals in excess of multiple Billion dollars, should the Cubs continue to do well on the field they will probably get the most amount of money in history for a TV deal.

 

Crain Kenney already told the media this off season of their plans and because of the expected windfall they took the gamble and signed Heyward to that mega contract. Meaning they know what's coming.

 

They'll be able to basically sign everyone and anyone they wish because of the TV money they'll be getting. Plus advertising and marketing companies will be falling all over themselves and willing to pay just about anything to advertise with them.

 

In short, they'll have more money than God and suck up a lot of the potential advertising / marketing / PR deals for themselves.

 

There won't be much left for the Sox. Plus if the Sox continue to embarrass themselves and make themselves irrelevant in their own market when their TV deal expires (unfortunately for them at the same time as the Cubs basically) they won't even sniff what teams like Seattle and Arizona got...it simply will not be there.

 

Not a good situation at all.

 

Mark

 

The Dodgers and Yankees are having trouble getting the cable companies to pay the carrying fees associated with their networks. With Comcast being the company they are leaving, I can't see things being nearly as easy for the Cubs as you think. In fact, for someone who follows history as much as you do, the parallels to White Sox leaving for SportsVision are pretty impressive. The Cubs are going to leave an existing network which is carried on every single cable and satellite company for one that doesn't yet exist, and will need to fight to get those networks to pay extra for them. Seeing how hard that has been for Houston, LA, and even the Yankees, I don't see your level of optimism.

 

[kitekrazy]

I can't think of one - some person wrote that Portland would be a good idea, I don't think it would. I do think that a new owner would really help the Sox, but I wonder if they'd want to keep the team at the Cell, in the suburbs or move out of Illinois. Financially, I doubt the state has enough revenue to help pick up the tab to build another stadium in the suburbs, even though I would love the Chicago White Sox of Oakbrook.

 

That's because you can only think as a fan. I'm sure a businessman with little emotional interest and very deep pockets could do research to prove us wrong. Attendance, and potential TV and Radio revenue would probably prove you wrong. If you move where there is little competition with other pro sports teams people will flock there.

In my perfect world owners would foot the bill for their own stadium. They don't because they know it's a bad investment and they use the usual "extra revenue in the off season" lie. They hold a city and its taxpayers hostage with the threat of leaving. Yet no politician has the balls to let them leave. BTW unless it has changed but the IL taxpayers shell out $500K to the White Sox.

 

 

[kitekrazy]

The Dodgers and Yankees are having trouble getting the cable companies to pay the carrying fees associated with their networks. With Comcast being the company they are leaving, I can't see things being nearly as easy for the Cubs as you think. In fact, for someone who follows history as much as you do, the parallels to White Sox leaving for SportsVision are pretty impressive. The Cubs are going to leave an existing network which is carried on every single cable and satellite company for one that doesn't yet exist, and will need to fight to get those networks to pay extra for them. Seeing how hard that has been for Houston, LA, and even the Yankees, I don't see your level of optimism.

 

If you are referring to WGN that's not happening anymore. I think TBS stopped that some time ago. I can see your point to an extent that cable companies are losing revenue with plenty of cable TV cancellations.

 

[southsider2k5]

If you are referring to WGN that's not happening anymore. I think TBS stopped that some time ago. I can see your point to an extent that cable companies are losing revenue with plenty of cable TV cancellations.

 

CSN is carried everywhere now.

[kitekrazy]

CSN is carried everywhere now.

 

Local coverage.

 

[southsider2k5]

Local coverage.

 

Absolutely. The point is that the Cubs new network won't have that. They will need to cut deal with Comcast, Dish, etc to get onto their feeds. As it stands now, CSN is already on. The Cubs will go from being on every outlet in Chicago to none. Even YES isn't available on every network in NY. In places like LA and Houston the carrying numbers are very low. This is the reality the Cubs are going to try to start a new network in. What incentive does a company like Comcast have to cut a deal with the Cubs, when them leaving already hurts the bottom line at CSN? More and more the carriers are sticking to their guns against paying the prices to add these types of networks at an additional cost.

[he gone.]

Absolutely. The point is that the Cubs new network won't have that. They will need to cut deal with Comcast, Dish, etc to get onto their feeds. As it stands now, CSN is already on. The Cubs will go from being on every outlet in Chicago to none. Even YES isn't available on every network in NY. In places like LA and Houston the carrying numbers are very low. This is the reality the Cubs are going to try to start a new network in. What incentive does a company like Comcast have to cut a deal with the Cubs, when them leaving already hurts the bottom line at CSN? More and more the carriers are sticking to their guns against paying the prices to add these types of networks at an additional cost.

 

I lived in Houston last year and wanted to watch a fun, young team. Couldn't do it. Cubs are a different beast, just like the Yankees, but I can't imagine a Cubs fan being happy about a Cubs network. It all comes down to money and how much you can drain from your fan base, however I think there is certain mental pushback from fan bases when this happens. How much can you squeeze?

 

[Lip Man 1]

The Dodgers and Yankees are having trouble getting the cable companies to pay the carrying fees associated with their networks. With Comcast being the company they are leaving, I can't see things being nearly as easy for the Cubs as you think. In fact, for someone who follows history as much as you do, the parallels to White Sox leaving for SportsVision are pretty impressive. The Cubs are going to leave an existing network which is carried on every single cable and satellite company for one that doesn't yet exist, and will need to fight to get those networks to pay extra for them. Seeing how hard that has been for Houston, LA, and even the Yankees, I don't see your level of optimism.

 

Simply because over the past 30 years the town has turned completely on to the Cubs. Those fans (some call them lemmings) will pay any amount of money to watch "their Cubbies..."

 

And if they happen to get to or win a World Series in the next few years, cable companies will be breaking down their doors to put them on.

 

The Cubs aren't totally stupid they took the gamble on Heyward for a reason Kenney came right out and said why.

 

Time will tell of course, but I'm willing to put up a few dollars that when all is said and done my scenario will be closer to reality.

 

SportsVision was a huge gamble, the idea was brilliant but ahead of its time. History has shown that since RSN's dominate the market now, the Cubs aren't dealing with the same landscape from many areas and standpoints.

 

Mark