Why is Rollins DHing

[CB2.0]

Tim Anderson has put up a .725 OPS in his 2 months at AAA, is a clearly inferior defender than Saladino and you seriously think he should be in the majors?

 

Definitely bad first month. But, over this last month: .361/.387/.513/.900

 

I wish he was a LH hitter.

Edited June 6, 2016 by CB2.0

[Texsox]

Ugh, same old tired argument. Apparently the 30 smartest & most qualified people in the world are currently managing MLB teams. Might as well shut down this site then. If fans aren't allowed to challenge poor decision-making or even deem a certain manager bad relative to his peers, what else is off limits? I guess the GMs don't make mistakes either, so us "arm chair" GMs really can't question them either. At least we're allowed to rip the players, right Tex?

 

I find it laughable that people continue to defend a guy who literally had no coaching experience before taking the job. The entire hiring process was laughable, ignoring his complete lack of a resume and not interviewing any alternatives. No doubt we had to get the guy with the "Five Star General" traits before the rest of the league realized he was available. And I can already hear the next bulls*** defense coming: he played in the majors for 15 years. Lol at anyone who actually thinks that justifies his hiring.

 

Of course the thirty best are not managing, there are some better candidates that haven't had a chance yet. But why are there thirty people managing that are worse than millions of other people? Why does the system reward people who can't manage as well as the average fan? That has to stop.

 

Another old tired argument of mine is managers receive far too much credit and far too much blame for what happens on the field. Reading the threads some people believe the next guy will be thousands of times better. That just isn't reality. Fire Ventura or don't fire him, but don't expect the next guy to be brilliant. MLB just keeps replacing idiot managers with more idiot managers.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Ugh, same old tired argument. Apparently the 30 smartest & most qualified people in the world are currently managing MLB teams. Might as well shut down this site then. If fans aren't allowed to challenge poor decision-making or even deem a certain manager bad relative to his peers, what else is off limits? I guess the GMs don't make mistakes either, so us "arm chair" GMs really can't question them either. At least we're allowed to rip the players, right Tex?

 

I find it laughable that people continue to defend a guy who literally had no coaching experience before taking the job. The entire hiring process was laughable, ignoring his complete lack of a resume and not interviewing any alternatives. No doubt we had to get the guy with the "Five Star General" traits before the rest of the league realized he was available. And I can already hear the next bulls*** defense coming: he played in the majors for 15 years. Lol at anyone who actually thinks that justifies his hiring.

What I find odd is people with zero managing experience seem to think they know what the guy who had zero managing experience was supposed to do and would have done if he had said experience. Robin now has experience. More than anyone on this board. It's time to give the lack of experience card a toss in the trash. If it is so essential, how the hell does anyone here know what exactly he is doing incorrectly?

[Dunt]

Yeah I don't get the avi hate either. Hasn't been great but certainly better than the alternatives. 2/5 in this series.

 

You dont get the Avi hate? Really? Have you actually closely watched him play? Did you see that SORRY defense in yesterdays game? Have you noticed that his 2016 is identical to his career line? He now has 1270 career plate appearances at the major league level and .261/.310/.385. A guy you were depending on to be a corner outfielder or DH isn't even putting up a .700 OPS. That's bad. Performances like that (and continuing to give players like him chances) are why this offense sucks balls.

[Texsox]

It's time to give the lack of experience card a toss in the trash. If it is so essential, how the hell does anyone here know what exactly he is doing incorrectly?

 

Great point.

 

If every manager followed exactly what stats show is the most correct thing to do every manager would be exactly average. So how do you put your team in a better position to be successful?

[caulfield12]

Experience managing is different than experience PLAYING.

 

Two totally different things. Look at Ted Williams, or Michael Jordan as an executive. Greatness in one usually doesn't lead to even a good manager because great or very good players don't understand what it's like to struggle their whole life just to get to the bigs and get one hit and then spend another 5 years hanging on in the minors while waiting for coaching job to open.

 

They don't understand what it's like to sit on the bench, and they're often high round draft picks, so they don't understand what it means to struggle financially.

 

 

As to Tex's point, it's easier to become a US Senator or member of Congress, by far.

 

There are only 30 jobs. Since there's never been a female manager, you've just eliminated half the population due to the "good 'ol boys network." Now, out of all those males who are aspiring to become a manager, you've got how many engaged in professional baseball at some level...collegiate or high school, working outside of the U.S. or one of the six or seven minor league affiliates, indy leagues, etc.

 

Let's just say it's 5,000, just to throw out a number. How many of those MLB managers have been given an opportunity without ever having played at least with the minor league affiliate of a major league team? That number must be under 10 in the entire history of the majors. At least if you want to be a big league GM, it's more of an equal opportunity position if you're in the right place at the right time...with the right mentor (one who's not threatened by someone below him)...coupled with a more modern education, now often including MBA's and law degrees and numerous Ivy League/Cal Tech/MIT grads in the quant department.

 

One that comes to mind was the time Bill Veeck gave the fans "flash cards" and everyone sitting in a designated section got to play collective manager for a day. There was Ted Turner managing for the Braves, although they quickly put a stop to that and forced him back to the owner's box.

 

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/mgrnon.shtml

 

Here's a list of the non-player (meaning they didn't make it to the majors) managers. Can anyone think of players from that list that never even played a single inning professionally?

 

That's your answer Tex. Why it's much harder than becoming a US Senator is the fact that basically having a college degree in perceived as the minimum qualification these days for that office. For an MLB manager, it's a professional (at least minor league) playing career.

Edited June 6, 2016 by caulfield12

[LVSoxFan]

Really, can we dispense with the whole "managers" don't matter argument?

 

That Robin has nothing to do with our woes. I understand that the players actually play the game, but if managers don't matter, then why would so much time and effort and interviewing go into hiring them? If it could be any schmuck? Oh, wait, unless it's us: where we hired somebody with no managing experience--as what, an experiment?--and... yeah. Here we are.

 

I will give you that firing Robin would be a feelgood measure at this point, but not for the reasons that most people think. And that's because even if you fire RV, KW is still the president, JR is still the owner, Cooper is still the pitching coach and Hahn still the GM.

 

The fish rots from the head down, folks--we have Ventura because of KW and JR, who had to talk him into the job. I'm going to give Hahn the benefit of the doubt (rightly or wrongly) and assume he's basically under KW's thumb, but yeah: we fire Ventura today and guess what? KW is still the president and JR is still the owner and KW picked not only the manager but also the players. So even if you go the "it's not the manager's fault" route everything still points back to KW, and ultimately to JR for allowing him to continue running the team.

 

It's been said here before that we need a housecleaning like the Hawks did and yes, like the Cubs did. Look where they're at now.

 

I don't know if we have to wait for JR to retire but I'm going to assume so. Until then, though, as long as KW is the man in charge, expect more losing seasons, just as we've been enjoying for a decade now save for 2008, which wasn't going to amount to anything anyway since that was more a contest of who could lose the central between us and Minnesota, more than who could win it--and then get decapitated in the first round of the playoffs.

 

Oh, and BTW, as others pointed out yesterday, our record against the division is absolutely pathetic. We're going nowhere if we can't beat division teams, so for that record alone yeah, KW should be gone. We aren't going anywhere if we can't get out of our division. We certainly knew that in 2005, as it was sort of a mantra--just win the division first.

 

We're nowhere near that so if we're going to blow up the team, now is the time to do it, not after the ASB, not at the end of the season--not when you've basically made it clear that fans are stuck with the losing season because you won't do anything until the offseason.

[Texsox]

I don't believe anyone here believes that the manager doesn't matter. I believe it is more the manager doesn't mean that much and they are all about the same. The differences between managers might not be worth all the angst and bitterness.

[Dick Allen]

I don't believe anyone here believes that the manager doesn't matter. I believe it is more the manager doesn't mean that much and they are all about the same. The differences between managers might not be worth all the angst and bitterness.

Exactly. Plus a huge part of managing is something we never ever see. It is what goes on when the game isn't happening.

[flavum]

Just my 2 cents about hiring an MLB manager:

 

--Hiring a guy with no coaching or minor league managerial experience is dangerous for the game. We're losing out on guys that put in the time and develop baseball instincts. If a guy has major league managerial aspirations and didn't play in the big leagues for years, he is at a huge disadvantage in becoming a manager. There are exceptions, but we're seeing a lot of Celebrity Managers these days, it's not good for the game as a whole.

 

--You should hire a guy that fits in with a philosophy that fits in with the type of team you're fielding.

 

--Once you hire a manager that fits in with what you're fielding, a three year contract is pretty standard. If that manager doesn't stand out after three years, you move on to the next one.

 

I'll admit, a lot of managers are interchangeable. You can give them the information, they can play by the book, and do nice interviews before the game and after the game...and they may actually win because the talent is superior. But if the manager doesn't stand out and doesn't win when you're trying to win, that manager should be replaced.

[GreenSox]

Cooper has influence on our lineup now?

he probably makes a concerted effort not to. That's the point. As you detailed below, Ventura didn't have the credentials for the job (you're finally coming around). What's Cooper's excuse?

Cooper has been KW's most trusted and loyal dugout chief. for years He'd be manager now, except that he doesn't have the personality for it. Cooper is one of the reasons that Ventura is manager.

Cooper has the organizational power and the brains to shave down some of Ventura's warts, if he chose to.

 

it's always going to be tough to bring in a real professional, experienced manager, when the pitching coach has more org. power.

Edited June 6, 2016 by GreenSox

[Dick Allen]

Perception and reality play a role as well. Ozzie was supposedly a baseball savant when his attention mongoring took the attention away from the players, thus supposedly lessening the pressure on them. But when the exact same thing went on during seasons the team didn't win, he was just an attention whore.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Just my 2 cents about hiring an MLB manager:

 

--Hiring a guy with no coaching or minor league managerial experience is dangerous for the game. We're losing out on guys that put in the time and develop baseball instincts. If a guy has major league managerial aspirations and didn't play in the big leagues for years, he is at a huge disadvantage in becoming a manager. There are exceptions, but we're seeing a lot of Celebrity Managers these days, it's not good for the game as a whole.

 

--You should hire a guy that fits in with a philosophy that fits in with the type of team you're fielding.

 

--Once you hire a manager that fits in with what you're fielding, a three year contract is pretty standard. If that manager doesn't stand out after three years, you move on to the next one.

 

I'll admit, a lot of managers are interchangeable. You can give them the information, they can play by the book, and do nice interviews before the game and after the game...and they may actually win because the talent is superior. But if the manager doesn't stand out and doesn't win when you're trying to win, that manager should be replaced.

I really don't know how much different philosophy baseball managers have. It isn't like football and basketball and hockey. Baseball is far more standard, which is why even Hawk says many viewers could run a game. As long as they aren't miserable schmucks, it's pretty much about talent. There isn't a manager alive who people would agree with every move. For instance, Joe Maddon, who seems to be the greatest of all time now, does not like to shift at all.

[LVSoxFan]

Well one question I have to ask is: how many World Series champions had sh*tty managers? That's one way to look at it.

[Jose Abreu]

I find the whole "Robin has more experience than you, you pathetic message board poster!!" argument to be very amusing. When we had threads about John Danks, Adam LaRoche, Adam Dunn, etc. did people ever say "he's a better baseball player than you!!!!"? No. Obviously, we're not saying that we could do a better job as manager than Ventura. What we are saying is that he is bad at his job and he should be replaced by somebody who is qualified, such as Renteria.

[Texsox]

Well one question I have to ask is: how many World Series champions had sh*tty managers? That's one way to look at it.

 

While they won? None. At some point later? All of them with possibly the exception of Tommy Lasorda. You win a World Series and everyone thinks you are a great manager, then a few years later the fans want your head. Then, if you are say a Larussa you become a great manager again. At least in the eyes of the fans.

[Dick Allen]

Well one question I have to ask is: how many World Series champions had sh*tty managers? That's one way to look at it.

A lot of them were considered stupid in previous or future seasons. Probably most if not all of them. Ned Yost won last year. He's been a total idiot. Bochy has been an idiot. Torre was an idiot. Ozzie is a fool. Farrell was a genius then stupid. LaRussa was an idiot. Matheny is considered an idiot by many.

 

Just about any guy who has ever managed can't do it as well as the people in the stands.

[Jose Abreu]

At this point, even Nick Delmonico could be a better DH option than Rollins.

[soxforlife05]

At this point, even Nick Delmonico could be a better DH option than Rollins.

 

Yeah an A ball guy we picked up off the scrap heap might actually get a look with the big club this year. Says a lot about our minor league system.

[Jose Abreu]

Yeah an A ball guy we picked up off the scrap heap might actually get a look with the big club this year. Says a lot about our minor league system.

He's in AAA, but yes

[harkness99]

Exactly. Plus a huge part of managing is something we never ever see. It is what goes on when the game isn't happening.

 

This is where I feel Robin doesn't have the ability.

 

His strategic decisions... meh.. some are bad but I don't think it means all that much.

 

What I see are players that in key situations... clench up.

 

I'd like to think that the ability to get players to relax and perform is where managers they make their impact.

 

 

Here are my ideas!

 

Play little side games... keep track of the team "Leaders" at getting the runner in from 3rd.

 

Give fun little awards like a case of your favorite beer...

Maybe if you win that week you get to pick a players intro music for a game on the homestand.

Get to play a nice golf course.

Someone has to bring you some Dairy Queen if you win...

 

Do they do s*** like that? I don't know but these guys just look so tense all the time.

Edited June 6, 2016 by harkness

[Dick Allen]

This is where I feel Robin doesn't have the ability.

 

His strategic decisions... meh.. some are bad but I don't think it means all that much.

 

What I see are players that in key situations... clench up.

 

I'd like to think that the ability to get players to relax and perform is where they make their impact.

 

 

Here are my ideas!

 

Play little side games... keep track of the team "Leaders" at getting the runner in from 3rd.

 

Give fun little awards like a case of your favorite beer...

Maybe if you win that week you get to pick a players intro music for a game on the homestand.

Get to play a nice golf course.

Someone has to bring you some Dairy Queen if you win...

 

Do they do s*** like that? I don't know but these guys just look so tense all the time.

I don't know if that is really on him either. He is obviously kind of a laid back guy. Other posters want him screaming and publicly humiliating players when they fail. That would make things worse. They were getting the big hits earlier, and got some big hits in KC onky to blow the leads. Ever since then, offense has been a problem. Melky being gone didn't help, but it isn't like that cost them 3 runs a game. I think they will get rolling again, but it is no secret they need another hitter preferably left handed, but anyone that can provide consistent offense would really help. It seems almost every player goes through so many stretches where they have no business grabbing a bat. It is almost as fascinating as frustrating. It seems the team is full of really streaky guys.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Dick Allen

[greg775]

I don't know if that is really on him either. He is obviously kind of a laid back guy. Other posters want him screaming and publicly humiliating players when they fail. That would make things worse. They were getting the big hits earlier, and got some big hits in KC onky to blow the leads. Ever since then, offense has been a problem. Melky being gone didn't help, but it isn't like that cost them 3 runs a game. I think they will get rolling again, but it is no secret they need another hitter preferably left handed, but anyone that can provide consistent offense would really help. It seems almost every player goes through so many stretches where they have no business grabbing a bat. It is almost as fascinating as frustrating. It seems the team is full of really streaky guys.

Now you know how I felt when I backed Ozzie through thick and thin. Since I loved Ozzie because of 2005 I never turned on him. I hold no emotional ties to any of the hacks running our team now. True Jerry and KW helped us win a title and for that I am grateful, but KW rubs me the wrong way. Like he's very very cocky (true Ozzie was cocky as well). Jerry is OK I guess but our team certainly has rested on its laurels and sucked for the most part since '05 and it's Jerry's organization.

[reiks12]

Tim Anderson has put up a .725 OPS in his 2 months at AAA, is a clearly inferior defender than Saladino and you seriously think he should be in the majors?

 

He has 0 walks in his last 46 AB (could even be more, didn't look past that)

[caulfield12]

4 homers at least for Anderson...although a 720ish OPS at Charlotte translates to 630-650ish at the MLB level.

 

Unless he pulls a Trayce, puts up a 900 slash line (that goes completely counter to his MILB lines for the most part) and gets inserted as the 3 hole hitter by Dave Roberts, like last night.

 

There's always hope.