Robin Ventura should be fired today

[CB2.0]

If this home stand tanks, especially the one against Detroit, what possible excuse would we have for doing nothing, even IF firing Ventura would be simply symbolic?

 

Isn't Detroit sort of our Packers? Like, if we can't beat them, we're not going anywhere? (Granted it used to be Minnesota but I guess it could be any central team at this point).

 

It literally could and SHOULD be any team at this point since all have held 1st at some point this season except the Twins.

Edited June 6, 2016 by CB2.0

[ptatc]

I know right. Just be content with a s***ty team, lineup, and manager. Hey at least we're 1 over! Firing him wouldn't fix everything but it'd show everyone that they're serious about winning this year. Let a real manager take over like Renteria.

Making trades to improve the team doesn't?

[he gone.]

I tend to stay away from the board during losing as it makes it even worse. So my quick 2 cents on this subject are:

 

If you can't win your own division games you are never going to get to the playoffs. Robin has consistently been unable to win within the division. I think he only has a winning record (and by like 2 games over .500) against the lowly Twins.

 

Sorry, but that right there is a reason to be canned.

 

Other than that, I think his lineups and management of the team has been pour.

 

This team needs a kick in the rear. Now, will it be a solution to where we are in the playoffs if he is fired? No. a LH power bat and a reliever will help that. But something has to happen to kick this team into gear. Cutting a manager that is probably going to be fired anyways at the end of the year is a good place to start.

 

Renteria can run with this team for the rest of the year.

[flavum]

Making trades to improve the team doesn't?

 

You can't do both?

 

Are people actually wanting Robin to stay because:

 

A) He's a good manager

B) Manager doesn't matter, so why change in the middle of a season?

C) I take the side of management no matter what, so until they make the move, I support their decisions.

D) It's mostly unlikely they make a change, so I'll take that side because it's the "winning" side.

[CB2.0]

I think not being able to assemble a hitting team in a decade is another reason to be canned.

[Jose Abreu]

I think not being able to assemble a hitting team in a decade is another reason to be canned.

2012

[ptatc]

You can't do both?

 

Are people actually wanting Robin to stay because:

 

A) He's a good manager

B) Manager doesn't matter, so why change in the middle of a season?

C) I take the side of management no matter what, so until they make the move, I support their decisions.

D) It's mostly unlikely they make a change, so I'll take that side because it's the "winning" side.

I don't think many are opposed to RV going but are making the case that it won't make much of a difference. Making the player changes are much more important.

 

you are spending far too much energy and angst on a move that won't make the difference. Channel the energy at the players to improve or for Hahn to improve the roster.

[Black_Jack29]

I don't think many are opposed to RV going but are making the case that it won't make much of a difference. Making the player changes are much more important.

 

you are spending far too much energy and angst on a move that won't make the difference. Channel the energy at the players to improve or for Hahn to improve the roster.

 

That's basically where I stand. And that firing a manager mid-season is a desperation move that conveys the message that the organization is out of answers.

 

[flavum]

I don't think many are opposed to RV going but are making the case that it won't make much of a difference. Making the player changes are much more important.

 

you are spending far too much energy and angst on a move that won't make the difference. Channel the energy at the players to improve or for Hahn to improve the roster.

 

That's a chance I'd like them to take. Ventura should have never managed a major league game to begin with, and he'll never do it again. So having a built in interim manager like Rick Renteria makes sense to most. It's absolutely worth a shot since it's already most likely the Sox won't make the playoffs and they won't renew Ventura after the season anyway.

 

Big homestand coming up. 6-3 is a must, in my opinion.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Making trades to improve the team doesn't?

Depends on the trade. Trading for a mid 30s SP? Gota be more because that can't be the only trade and I'm sure it won't. Honestly they need a bat and a reliever ASAP. Go get CarGo or something along that lines. Get Chapman or something along those lines. We all know Robin sucks at his job. It's just time. But then again this is the front office that hired him in the first place.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I don't think many are opposed to RV going but are making the case that it won't make much of a difference. Making the player changes are much more important.

 

you are spending far too much energy and angst on a move that won't make the difference. Channel the energy at the players to improve or for Hahn to improve the roster.

The single most important thing it shows is accountability. There is none right now. Firing Robin shows that there is some.

[Dick Allen]

That's basically where I stand. And that firing a manager mid-season is a desperation move that conveys the message that the organization is out of answers.

Yes. I wouldn't cry if they fired Robin at noon today. But those calling for his head, if they don't do something about the offense, will be calling the next guy a goof as well.

 

Robin Ventura knows more about the White Sox personnel and about baseball than any of us on this board. Some people don't believe it, but it's true.

[GreenSox]

You can't do both?

 

Are people actually wanting Robin to stay because:

 

A) He's a good manager

B) Manager doesn't matter, so why change in the middle of a season?

C) I take the side of management no matter what, so until they make the move, I support their decisions.

D) It's mostly unlikely they make a change, so I'll take that side because it's the "winning" side.

E) The front office, primarily the top of the front office, is the problem in this organization.

I don't think he's a good manager, but I'm indifferent re firing him at this point.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Yes. I wouldn't cry if they fired Robin at noon today. But those calling for his head, if they don't do something about the offense, will be calling the next guy a goof as well.

 

Robin Ventura knows more about the White Sox personnel and about baseball than any of us on this board. Some people don't believe it, but it's true.

There's a difference between making a move at manager to make a move and firing a guy who has no business being one in the first place. Yes these players aren't getting it done but Robin also isn't putting these guys in the best situations to succeed either. #WeDeserveBetter

[Bigsoxhurt35]

E) The front office, primarily the top of the front office, is the problem in this organization.

I don't think he's a good manager, but I'm indifferent re firing him at this point.

I actually really like Rick Hahn. I like what's he's done but don't believe he's been given full reigns like he should. I trust Hahn with a rebuild but his hands are tied at the same time with the budget.

[CB2.0]

2012

 

2012 LgAvg Slash: .255/.319/.405/.724

 

2012 Sox Slash: .255/.318/.422/.740

 

 

Now THIS team:

 

2006 Slash: .280/.342/.464/.806

 

That team could hit.

Edited June 6, 2016 by CB2.0

[Jose Abreu]

2012 LgAvg Slash: .255/.319/.405/.724

 

2012 Sox Slash: .255/.318/.422/.740

 

 

Now THIS team:

 

2006 Slash: .280/.342/.464/.806

 

That team could hit.

I was more referring to the 2012 team's 4.62 runs per game (4th in AL) and 211 home runs (3rd in AL).

[CB2.0]

I was more referring to the 2012 team's 4.62 runs per game (4th in AL) and 211 home runs (3rd in AL).

 

Fair enough.

 

Still - rather have 5.36 runs per game (3rd in MLB/AL) and 236 (#1 in AL).

[oneofthemikes]

I don't think many are opposed to RV going but are making the case that it won't make much of a difference. Making the player changes are much more important.

 

you are spending far too much energy and angst on a move that won't make the difference. Channel the energy at the players to improve or for Hahn to improve the roster.

 

Is it though? The whole roster has turned over in the past 3 seasons and we're still having this conversation. How many times do players need to be replaced before the organization looks in the mirror and makes a managerial/coaching/scouting/player development change?

 

The problem seems (at least to me) to be with the organization, because it doesn't seem to matter much which names are on the backs of the jerseys.

[Black_Jack29]

There's a difference between making a move at manager to make a move and firing a guy who has no business being one in the first place. Yes these players aren't getting it done but Robin also isn't putting these guys in the best situations to succeed either. #WeDeserveBetter

 

I disagree with this as well. Robin knows more than enough baseball to set the lineup, give guys their days off, and competently handle a pitching staff. (He's a lot better at the latter than Dusty Baker and Josh Gibbons.) Outside of putting Rollins in the lineup too often, he's doing a reasonable job.

 

The other aspects of Robin's job include handling an antagonistic media, protecting his players, diffusing tension, and promoting a good clubhouse atmosphere. I don't see where he's gone wrong in any of those areas.

 

[Black_Jack29]

Is it though? The whole roster has turned over in the past 3 seasons and we're still having this conversation. How many times do players need to be replaced before the organization looks in the mirror and makes a managerial/coaching/scouting/player development change?

 

The problem seems (at least to me) to be with the organization, because it doesn't seem to matter much which names are on the backs of the jerseys.

 

The scouting and player development areas are the problem. That's where the heads should be rolling. The manager, not so much.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Other than the support of the entire baseball team?

 

I don't understand your point here. You think firing Robin would mean the whole team wouldn't support Renteria as their new manager ?

[kitekrazy]

Agreed. On a decision of that nature JR has to give his blessing. For example he OK'd letting go Tony LaRussa (and has admitted publicly many times afterwards that was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made as owner. The others? OK'ing the trade of Jerry Koosman and hiring Hawk as G.M.)

 

Mark

 

JR was not fortunate to have a crystal ball to tell him otherwise. We fans wanted LaRussa fired as well. There is no guarantee LaRussa would have been successful here anyway. The Cardinals are a complete 180 of the White Sox. I would imagine their success is based on every one from the scouting, development, management, are all on the same page. I believe the reason why Ozzie quit was this organization is a dead end when it comes to winning.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Here's the thing with Hahn...though.

 

He's the flip side of AJ Preller, whose success in the Rangers' front office was almost entirely wrapped up in international scouting, running the minor league system/new trends in coaching and player evaluation and development.

 

What evidence do we have that Hahn really knows how to pull that off? Because if he was mentored by Hahn and JR over all those years, their approach has been the completely, exact opposite of what the organization SHOULD have been doing?

 

So, because Hahn is very good at "negotiating contracts," that makes him the best qualified to create and manage an entirely new ecosystem, a "White Sox Way" or whatever you want to call it? Is keeping someone who is too close to see "the forest for the trees" involved in turning things around really the best approach here? It's certainly the most LOYAL, but we've seen where that's getting the Bulls and Sox these days. Dysfunction.

Hahnh grew up in the Braves organization, IIRC. I think Hahn is a strong tactician and a good GM, but I think the strategy he's been given and the plan of attack handed down by JR / KW (as well as the overall budget) has hamstrung them to for a lack of a better word, half ass contention.

[ptatc]

The single most important thing it shows is accountability. There is none right now. Firing Robin shows that there is some.

I think the trade shows more accountability. The players are the ones who make or break the season. They are the ones who need to held responsible for their performances. The team showed early in the season it could win.