Robin Ventura should be fired today

[ptatc]

Is it though? The whole roster has turned over in the past 3 seasons and we're still having this conversation. How many times do players need to be replaced before the organization looks in the mirror and makes a managerial/coaching/scouting/player development change?

 

The problem seems (at least to me) to be with the organization, because it doesn't seem to matter much which names are on the backs of the jerseys.

This is where I think the issues lies.

[harfman77]

The scouting and player development areas are the problem. That's where the heads should be rolling. The manager, not so much.

 

I think that is very true as well.

 

The current club can't be fixed in the short term with scouting and player development improvements though, so it may be time to look at changing the manager to get a new perspective in place to run the team. Robin steered the ship through some lean years, but given where this roster is at and the chance to contend this season, it may be time to get someone else who has experience coaching playoff level teams.

 

Personally I think Robin gets to the ASG and then if the team is floundering Renteria will finish out the season. The Sox are in a rut, but lets give him the chance to steer them out of it before casting him off.

[Chisoxfn]

It really hasn't. no manager would have won games with the 2013-2015 White Sox. But keep kidding yourselves,

While I don't think Robin is the worst manager in the world, you are who you are based upon track record and performance and right now this team is dogging it and this is coming off of an awful 3 year run. We all knew Robin was in a make it or break it year (and he's alluded to it as well IIRC), so everyone knew if this team didn't perform, Robin was likely out. Given the start they had and where they are now, you can't make moves that show you are still in it, while still passing the buck on the overall struggles. At some point, you have to try and see if a change in manager changes things up. Its happened before for teams and could very well happen now.

 

One thing I will say, I don't think Ventura is a good / great manager, if anything he's mediocre (and that is the nicest thing I can say about him). That said, there are very few great managers as the game of baseball is far more reliant on the individual players and I will always say a managers most critical job is actually just handling the clubhouse (vs. day to day / in game aspects, especially in this current era). I think the runway right now has to be extremely short. His track record doesn't merit anything but that (and last year we were expected to contend and this year the expectation was similar and while we have, we certainly haven't been trending in the right direction and if it keeps going much longer, they are going to have to try something and knowing your manager was already gone if you didn't have a successful year, than I think that "lever" is one of the first they'll pull to try and change things.

[harfman77]

Hahnh grew up in the Braves organization, IIRC. I think Hahn is a strong tactician and a good GM, but I think the strategy he's been given and the plan of attack handed down by JR / KW (as well as the overall budget) has hamstrung them to for a lack of a better word, half ass contention.

 

Before coming to the White Sox, Hahn worked as an agent.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-10...gency-rick-hahn

 

[Chisoxfn]

Before coming to the White Sox, Hahn worked as an agent.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-10...gency-rick-hahn

My fault, I am confusing him with someone else in the org. Hahn just always references the "Braves" way.

[Dick Allen]

Before coming to the White Sox, Hahn worked as an agent.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-10...gency-rick-hahn

Didn't Preller get blasted for ruining the Padres system last year? GMs come from all areas. The fact is, most of these players are not personally scouted by the GM, so I don't think Hahn's background works against him. Plus he has been trained by White Sox scouts. I do think he was one of the driving forces, if not the main one in signing Jose Quintana.

 

There isn't a scout alive that hasn't recommended more busts than not in their scouting careers.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Hahnh grew up in the Braves organization, IIRC. I think Hahn is a strong tactician and a good GM, but I think the strategy he's been given and the plan of attack handed down by JR / KW (as well as the overall budget) has hamstrung them to for a lack of a better word, half ass contention.

 

I think you are thinking of Hostetler.

[harfman77]

Is it though? The whole roster has turned over in the past 3 seasons and we're still having this conversation. How many times do players need to be replaced before the organization looks in the mirror and makes a managerial/coaching/scouting/player development change?

 

The problem seems (at least to me) to be with the organization, because it doesn't seem to matter much which names are on the backs of the jerseys.

 

The question in the end always comes down to the capabilities of the White Sox making such a change.

 

The Sox removed Doug Lauman from his role as scouting director because he was not getting the job done, but did not fire him, only re-assigned him to the the senior adviser of scouting operations. His replacement was one of his employees that had worked for him the past 8 years.

 

Since Hahn has been GM, they have been able to go outside the org for coaching hires, McEwing, Parent, Renteria, Steverson, but the upper level roles in the org seem to churn incestually which is why we don't see a lot of change in the approach to player development and scouting which leads to the GM having to constantly go outside the org to patch the ship.

 

I really think Hahn could do a great job if unencumbered, but I think the good ole boy network that JR has set up makes him run the team with one arm tied behind his back.

[Chisoxfn]

I think you are thinking of Hostetler.

Yeah - I knew Hostetler was from the Braves, for whatever reason I thought somewhere Rick spent some time in Atlanta before joining Chicago (remembered his prevent agency background).

[harfman77]

Didn't Preller get blasted for ruining the Padres system last year? GMs come from all areas. The fact is, most of these players are not personally scouted by the GM, so I don't think Hahn's background works against him. Plus he has been trained by White Sox scouts. I do think he was one of the driving forces, if not the main one in signing Jose Quintana.

 

There isn't a scout alive that hasn't recommended more busts than not in their scouting careers.

 

I wasn't implying that it did, just pointing out that he didn't work for the Braves. The new scouting director Hostetler did for three years in between his two stints (12 years) with the White Sox.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah - I knew Hostetler was from the Braves, for whatever reason I thought somewhere Rick spent some time in Atlanta before joining Chicago (remembered his prevent agency background).

 

IIRC, Hahn sent personal letters to JR begging him to give him a chance to work for the Sox.

[caulfield12]

But Hahn at least had numerous connections built up due to his educational background.

 

The "average" twenty-something out there begging for a job in a front office (with a Master's in Sports Admin/Management) or even an internship in broadcasting (that area's 10X more competitive than front office work even) just doesn't stand a chance. Right place, right time.

 

I'll give a personal example.

 

For example, I turned down an internship with the Red Sox for "only" $300 per month back in late 1993 because I knew if I could do sales fairly effectively I could earn, let's say $1000-1250 per month (and free rent) working for a minor league team. Knowing what I know now, I would have asked to borrow money from my dad and figured out how to survive in Boston financially because it's just not that easy to transition from working for a minor league team to a major league front office (unless its owned by a major league team). I screwed up my Cardinals' interview by making a joke about selling complimentary tickets that front office members (even interns) receive...they are super serious about that, and I should have known better. Of course, who wants to work in ticketing? (Yes, I know, I know...there are major league GM's who have started off in even lower positions than THAT).

 

The other path which could have had a positive result would have been developing Spanish skills more and going to work in the Winter Baseball Leagues in places like the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico or Venezuela. I always helped our Spanish speaking players (Jose Guillen in particular, because he always was getting into trouble at age 19)...but you couldn't work as a "translator" full time in the minor leagues, that position simply didn't exist at that time, or even working in one of the baseball academies in the DR or VZ (which was alluring from an adventure side but scary from a personal safety standpoint.)

 

And yeah, back then I remember sending out resumes to every MLB GM and all 130 something minor league teams. About half the MLB GM's responded, or at least their secretaries/admin assistants. Wish I had kept all of them.

Edited June 6, 2016 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

But Hahn at least had numerous connections built up due to his educational background.

 

The "average" twenty-something out there begging for a job in a front office (with a Master's in Sports Admin/Management) or even an internship in broadcasting (that area's 10X more competitive than front office work even) just doesn't stand a chance. Right place, right time.

 

I'll give a personal example.

 

For example, I turned down an internship with the Red Sox for "only" $300 per month back in late 1993 because I knew if I could do sales fairly effectively I could earn, let's say $1000-1250 per month (and free rent) working for a minor league team. Knowing what I know now, I would have asked to borrow money from my dad and figured out how to survive in Boston financially because it's just not that easy to transition from working for a minor league team to a major league front office (unless its owned by a major league team). I screwed up my Cardinals' interview by making a joke about selling complimentary tickets that front office members (even interns) receive...they are super serious about that, and I should have known better. Of course, who wants to work in ticketing? (Yes, I know, I know...there are major league GM's who have started off in even lower positions than THAT).

 

The other path which could have had a positive result would have been developing Spanish skills more and going to work in the Winter Baseball Leagues in places like the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico or Venezuela. I always helped our Spanish speaking players (Jose Guillen in particular, because he always was getting into trouble at age 19)...but you couldn't work as a "translator" full time in the minor leagues, that position simply didn't exist at that time, or even working in one of the baseball academies in the DR or VZ (which was alluring from an adventure side but scary from a personal safety standpoint.)

 

And yeah, back then I remember sending out resumes to every MLB GM and all 130 something minor league teams. About half the MLB GM's responded, or at least their secretaries/admin assistants. Wish I had kept all of them.

You're right it is quite an experience working in that league. It was worth the experience and really wasn't all that "unsafe." I did it in the early 90's and had a blast and it got me full season work. I would highly recommend it for someone looking to break into professional sports. Although, in the medical field I don't recommend baseball, way, way too many hours for the pay.

[Dizzy Sox]

All day I've been checking the site every 20 min to see if there's even a hint that RV (or anyone for that matter) will get canned today. You'd think I'd know better by now...

[Saufley]

All day I've been checking the site every 20 min to see if there's even a hint that RV (or anyone for that matter) will get canned today. You'd think I'd know better by now...

 

I posted on another site that I hoped I would read about a Ventura firing when I went to the site. Post was pending as the Admin. had to approve. Must have been too negative because it never did get posted. Oh well.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Saufley

[Thad Bosley]

IIRC, Hahn sent personal letters to JR begging him to give him a chance to work for the Sox.

Like, as in 'snail mail'? That's weird!

 

"Dear Jerry,

 

I am taking pen to paper today to implore your consideration in the hiring of Nicholas Hostetler to be our new amateur scouting director. He comes with unparalleled qualifications and you'll just love him. My return address is on the envelope, so write me back at your earliest convenience.

 

Yours Truly,

 

Rick

 

P.S. - Wish you had let Kenny go to Toronto when you had the chance!"

[ChiSox59]

I'd be completely fine with the Sox moving on from Ventura, but we all know that isn't going to happen right now. I don't think he is the difference between this team making the playoffs and not - I think that relies on how Jose Abreu bounces back from his dreadful start and if the Sox go get a real bat from the left side and how that player does.

 

But it perhaps would light a fire under the team's ass. But I just don't see it happening.

[greg775]

I don't understand your point here. You think firing Robin would mean the whole team wouldn't support Renteria as their new manager ?

Please, fellow Sox fans, get off the Renteria bandwagon. Please. If he is the interim, keep Robin the rest of the season. Then quietly let Robin fade away with no new contract. Just say no to Renteria.

[harkness99]

Other than the support of the entire baseball team?

 

What does that even mean...the support of being a 4th place team the past 4 years?

 

Oh you are right hell we could slide into 5th place.

 

Seriously lol

[Bananarchy]

Please, fellow Sox fans, get off the Renteria bandwagon. Please. If he is the interim, keep Robin the rest of the season. Then quietly let Robin fade away with no new contract. Just say no to Renteria.

Please explain.

[southsider2k5]

Please explain.

 

FWIW, you just asked greg to be rational.

 

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Like, as in 'snail mail'? That's weird!

 

"Dear Jerry,

 

I am taking pen to paper today to implore your consideration in the hiring of Nicholas Hostetler to be our new amateur scouting director. He comes with unparalleled qualifications and you'll just love him. My return address is on the envelope, so write me back at your earliest convenience.

 

Yours Truly,

 

Rick

 

P.S. - Wish you had let Kenny go to Toronto when you had the chance!"

The image I have in my head is of the letter Owen Wilson's character sent to Bill Murray's character in The Life Aquatic With Steve Zissou.

[greg775]

Please explain.

Renteria has been part of this bizarre dysfunctional team this season. Need I say more? He could have helped Robin get this team to compete after the Texas debacle. Robin seems easy going. Where's the Renteria influence? Is he just sitting on the bench waiting to be manager? No. He has a job and the team's results speak for themselves.

[Bananarchy]

FWIW, you just asked greg to be rational.

I deserved what I got.

 

My mistake.

[CB2.0]

Like, as in 'snail mail'? That's weird!

 

"Dear Jerry,

 

I am taking pen to paper today to implore your consideration in the hiring of Nicholas Hostetler to be our new amateur scouting director. He comes with unparalleled qualifications and you'll just love him. My return address is on the envelope, so write me back at your earliest convenience.

 

Yours Truly,

 

Rick

 

P.S. - Wish you had let Kenny go to Toronto when you had the chance!"

 

lol