Robin Ventura should be fired today

[SoxAce]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ckamka/status/740690814934847489

 

I didn't watch the game yesterday, but when I saw the lineup card and this tweet from Kamka, I was like "Oh Robin"..

[Dick Allen]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ckamka/status/740690814934847489

 

I didn't watch the game yesterday, but when I saw the lineup card and this tweet from Kamka, I was like "Oh Robin"..

So maybe the Sox should bring back Tyler Flowers.

 

This Robin bashing is getting hysterically stupid. Now he's an idiot for not having Navarro catch Shields like if he did, Shields would be a Cy Young guy. Navarro has been catching Latos. In fact after his first few starts, including some time in Cincinatti, it was something like 10 or 12 starts with an ERA below 2.00? How did that hold up once Latos started throwing meatballs?

[SoxAce]

So maybe the Sox should bring back Tyler Flowers.

 

This Robin bashing is getting hysterically stupid. Now he's an idiot for not having Navarro catch Shields like if he did, Shields would be a Cy Young guy. Navarro has been catching Latos. In fact after his first few starts, including some time in Cincinatti, it was something like 10 or 12 starts with an ERA below 2.00? How did that hold up once Latos started throwing meatballs?

 

A guy who just got traded, pitching in a new environment with a catcher he's had success with in his career (who also happens to know his tendencies) would be a pretty smart move for the most part. He might of still got rocked. He might of pitched a quality start. We dont know, but I'd rather see a guy who can call a game he likes in there. But trying to explain anything coaching related to you is pointless. If you were running the Sox office, Greg Walker would still be the hitting coach.

Edited June 9, 2016 by SoxAce

[Dick Allen]

A guy who just got traded, pitching in a new environment with a catcher he's had success with in his career (who also hapoens to know his tendencies) would be a pretty smart move for the most part. But trying to explain anything coaching related to you is pointless. If you were running the Sox office, Greg Walker would still be the hitting coach.

So James Shields would have been much better if Navarro was catching last night. The last time they were teammates was in 2010 when Shields was 13-15 5.18 ERA. Somehow the next year he went 16-12 with a 2.82 throwing to someone else and had been pretty good since.

 

That's all I need to know to realize how little you know. James Shields has thrown to I don't know how many catchers in his day. But a lot more than Dioner Navarro. If he can't throw to Alex Avila, having him on the team is beyond stupid. He's also been in Chicago and on the mound at USCF plenty in his career. If he is that big of a baby, maybe Cooper should have held his hand and walked him to the mound last night.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Dick Allen

[SoxAce]

So James Shields would have been much better if Navarro was catching last night.

 

That's all I need to know to realize how little you know. James Shields has thrown to I don't know how many catchers in his day. But a lot more than Dioner Navarro. If he can't throw to Alex Avila, having him on the team is beyond stupid. He's also been in Chicago and on the mound at USCF plenty in his career. If he is that big of a baby, maybe Cooper should have held his hand and walked him to the mound last night.

 

Typical DA reading what he wants to read. I already said he might of still got rocked, or he might of pitched a quality start. We'll never know. But I'd still rather see him live or die with a guy he's had success with in the past. By your logic, maybe the Cubs front office should tell Jon Lester to stop pitching since it seems he only pitches well when Ross is catching him.

[Dick Allen]

Typical DA reading what he wants to read. I already said he might of still got rocked, or he might of pitched a quality start. We'll never know. But I'd still rather see him live or die with a guy he's had success with in the past. By your logic, maybe the Cubs front office should tell Jon Lester to stop pitching since it seems he only pitches well when Ross is catching him.

Again they were last teammates 6 years ago. That season Shields put up a 5.18 ERA.

 

Your argument is ridiculously laughable.

[caulfield12]

Well, tonight we're moving onto KW in the "looking like a fool" category.

 

Hahn, When He Gone?'s choice of James Shields and now twice-traded Gio, KW's own cross to bear.

 

Crazy you have two Gonzalezes starting against each other, with 3.93 and 3.94 ERA's. Something tells me they won't be exactly 1/100th of a point apart after tonight.

[Bob Sacamano]

Let's just get rid of everyone. Whole front office, entire coaching staff (literally every team gets lucky on developing pitchers who struggled with other teams. Cooper isn't God.)

[SoxAce]

Again they were last teammates 6 years ago. That season Shields put up a 5.18 ERA.

 

Your argument is ridiculously laughable.

 

Navarro caught 331 innings and put up a 2.91 CERA that year with TB. (Team ERA that year was 3.78) Should I bring up his CERA in years after that or Shields FIP/BABIP/SIERA that year?

 

[Dick Allen]

Navarro caught 331 innings and put up a 2.91 CERA that year with TB. (Team ERA that year was 3.78) Should I bring up his CERA in years after that or Shields FIP/BABIP/SIERA that year?

And Shields was horrible that year. And that year was 2010. Shields isn't the same pitcher. It didn't matter who caught him, he was horrible last night. There are things that can be taken as legit arguments against Robin, this isn't one of them.

 

2010 was a long time ago baseball-wise. No one on the 2010 White Sox is even on the team anymore.

 

 

Somehow since 2010 Shields was able to survive with others catching him, and has made a lot of money.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

Hahn deserves the guillotine more than Navarro/Avila/Ventura on this one.

 

A bit of a desperation move. And it's going to be one that will be harder to survive because at least Shark magically disappeared after one year and is now "out of sight, out of mind" on the West Coast.

 

Can't imagine if he was putting up his SF numbers for the Cubs about right now after totally wetting the bed for us.

[SoxAce]

And Shields was horrible that year. And that year was 2010. Shields isn't the same pitcher. It didn't matter who caught him, he was horrible last night. There are things that can be taken as legit arguments against Robin, this isn't one of them.

 

2010 was a long time ago baseball-wise. No one on the 2010 White Sox is even on the team anymore.

 

 

Somehow since 2010 Shields was able to survive with others catching him, and has made a lot of money.

 

I miss the shakes head emoji.

 

Keep fighting the good fight there DA.

[Special K]

Hahn deserves the guillotine more than Navarro/Avila/Ventura on this one.

 

A bit of a desperation move. And it's going to be one that will be harder to survive because at least Shark magically disappeared after one year and is now "out of sight, out of mind" on the West Coast.

 

Can't imagine if he was putting up his SF numbers for the Cubs about right now after totally wetting the bed for us.

 

 

Totally agree. Complete desperation move that just took $10 million out of hands in FA spending next year. Would've had $30 million coming off the books between LaRoche and Danks, which is enough to sign a big FA ... This team is not going anywhere this year, unfortunately. This down spiral has to be historic. In my opinion, the series against KC is a must win (not sweep, but at least 2 of 3). It will put some life in this team..

 

Oh, and RV should be canned.

[Dick Allen]

I miss the shakes head emoji.

 

Keep fighting the good fight there DA.

Whatever. Dioner Navarro isn't in the line up. Robin is a moron. Maybe the biggest stretch so far. It is good to know that since Navarro catches Latos, this stretch he has had is just a mirage.

[LVSoxFan]

Even WITH the s*** years we've had for, oh, the last decade--does anybody remember a streak this brutal? Because I don't. Maybe it's exacerbated by the fact that they jumped to such an amazing start but OMG I can't remember a time where they lost this many games just one after another, for such an extended period of time. I mean, losing 20 out of the last 26? Good God.

 

It's just sad to me. For a hot minute there in April I thought wow, this is going to be a fun season.

 

Serves me right for thinking we'd actually do something in the KW era.

[Dick Allen]

Even WITH the s*** years we've had for, oh, the last decade--does anybody remember a streak this brutal? Because I don't. Maybe it's exacerbated by the fact that they jumped to such an amazing start but OMG I can't remember a time where they lost this many games just one after another, for such an extended period of time. I mean, losing 20 out of the last 26? Good God.

 

It's just sad to me. For a hot minute there in April I thought wow, this is going to be a fun season.

 

Serves me right for thinking we'd actually do something in the KW era.

They actually have done something in the KW era.

 

I don't remember anything this bad. Shields looked about as bad as someone could look last night. He won't be that bad. If he is, someone has to go, whether it is KW, RH or a scout who recommended it be done. I just think it is right now a when it rains it pours situation. They will turn it around eventually, hopefully before it's too late. It's been a dramatic fall. But even the 2005 White Sox lost 13 or 14 games in the standing at one point, then got on a roll and were just about unbeatable. The 2014 Giants had a 6-18 streak.

 

It does seem like this will never end, but it will, and if Hahn does what he has been telling people he will do, the team should be pretty good.

[caulfield12]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CH...le-scores.shtml

 

June 15th-July 15th, 2010.

The closest we can come up with to the opposite of 2016.

 

2007 and 2013 had some similar stretches. Before that, you'd have to go back to the mid to late 90's or mid to late 80's.

 

 

[Harry Chappas]

They actually have done something in the KW era.

 

I don't remember anything this bad. Shields looked about as bad as someone could look last night. He won't be that bad. If he is, someone has to go, whether it is KW, RH or a scout who recommended it be done. I just think it is right now a when it rains it pours situation. They will turn it around eventually, hopefully before it's too late. It's been a dramatic fall. But even the 2005 White Sox lost 13 or 14 games in the standing at one point, then got on a roll and were just about unbeatable. The 2014 Giants had a 6-18 streak.

 

It does seem like this will never end, but it will, and if Hahn does what he has been telling people he will do, the team should be pretty good.

 

Last evening Navarro was a better option because of familiarity there is no question about it, it is not a debate.

 

Maybe James Shields said he does not like to throw to Navarro in which case we are all wrong.

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

Yes, the White Sox lost 12 1/2 games in the standings to the Indians.

 

But that took place because the Indians were in the midst of an unreal 33-11 stretch.

 

And Ozzie's Sox weren't playing terribly, but they did slow down (30-28 the last two months)...nothing like losing 20/26. We'd still be in first place by four games if we were just "holding serve" and 2 games over .500 during this ongoing recent stretch, leaving us at 37-22 and firmly in control of the division.

 

Flavum would approve of that pace.

Edited June 9, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Last evening Navarro was a better option because of familiarity there is no question about it, it is not a debate.

 

Maybe James Shields said he does not like to throw to Navarro in which case we are all wrong.

He hasn't caught him for 6 years. Shields isn't the same pitcher he was 6 years ago, or if he is and all that is needed is Dioner Navarro behind the plate, Rick Hahn and KW need some extensions as they just robbed SD blind.

[shysocks]

Where can I find what our team's BB rate was during our hot stretch vs. what is has been during our slump? Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but it seems like when our offense was really clicking we were drawing a ton of walks and recently we've lost that discipline. If there is a noticeable difference, to me that's proof we're really pressing right now and IMO a coach should be held accountable for that change in approach. Again, I could be totally wrong here, just what it feels like.

I was curious so I looked it up.

 

First 33 games: 9.12% walk rate

Last 26 games: 7.75% walk rate

 

There's an appreciable difference there, but 7.75% is not bad per se. It would be smack in the middle for AL teams if it was our full-season number.

 

Lawrie's unsustainable rate from the start of the season is largely responsible. If he keeps walking at that rate during the 6-20 stretch, the team's figure shoots up to 8.48%.

[Doc Edwards Shot]

Let's just get rid of everyone. Whole front office, entire coaching staff (literally every team gets lucky on developing pitchers who struggled with other teams. Cooper isn't God.)

 

Don't forget the stadium, too. If we're blowing up everything having to do with the White Sox and starting fresh, might as well.

 

I was just in WDC at the Nationals stadium a few weeks ago and it was WAY BETTER than the Cell. Unlike our still-horrible upper deck, the elevated seats are much closer to the field with a more intimate feel to it. It wasn't cavernous like the Cell.

 

[LVSoxFan]

I dunno--I like the Cell and the upper deck. Either way, the Stadium is the least of our problems.

 

I'd support a new one if they put it on the lakefront, say, where the George Lucas museum is now not going to go, where it should have gone in the first place.

[Dick Allen]

I dunno--I like the Cell and the upper deck. Either way, the Stadium is the least of our problems.

 

I'd support a new one if they put it on the lakefront, say, where the George Lucas museum is now not going to go, where it should have gone in the first place.

 

While it might be a pretty place, it would be an awful place for a ballpark. No public transportation. LSD would be a headache. It's fine for the Bears 8 days a year, but 81? People aren't going to want much of it. I always though the park should have been around Roosevelt and the River. You have Red line, Green line and Orange line stops a couple of blocks away. You have the downtown work people extremely close. Could have built a riverwalk type thing, and opened it up to the skyline a bit. But the park now is fine.

[ptatc]

While it might be a pretty place, it would be an awful place for a ballpark. No public transportation. LSD would be a headache. It's fine for the Bears 8 days a year, but 81? People aren't going to want much of it. I always though the park should have been around Roosevelt and the River. You have Red line, Green line and Orange line stops a couple of blocks away. You have the downtown work people extremely close. Could have built a riverwalk type thing, and opened it up to the skyline a bit. But the park now is fine.

I think it would be great. The metra line stops right there. That's how I get to Bears games. It would be a lot easier for me than the current location.

Of course you couldn't get me to live anywhere near the actual city either.