ptatc Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:16 PM) Ventura isn't a major league manager. At least with Renteria, we know that he is one. Won't always agree with any manager but knowing we have an actual manager will be great. A lot of its on the players and I understand that. How do you know this? He was a manager for 1 year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:21 PM) How do you know this? He was a manager for 1 year. He was fine with the Cubs. The only reason they got rid of him is Joe Maddon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:23 PM) He was fine with the Cubs. The only reason they got rid of him is Joe Maddon. So his qualifications of being a real MLB manager is 1 season of being fine with the Cubs. They may want to aim for higher than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 The saddest part to me is you're going to lose a whole generation of young would-be fans to the Cubs, because they've been on an upward trend for years--and now it's peaking--while we've gone the complete opposite direction. Forget those of us who have been around--how long do you think youngsters are going to get behind the Sox because their parents did when all their classmates are enjoying a first-class, winning team (in a great park) that's probably going to the World Series this year and probably more than one in the near future? Again: the last decades speaks for itself. The system doesn't work. There's no learning curve. Even having an ace like Sale doesn't help, or potential ace Quintana who's been getting completely shafted by having no run support. Our big signings are busts, our farm league is in shambles--just what exactly is competently run at this organization? Then there's the other weird thing with seemingly good players like Eaton or even Frazier apparently regressing while White Sox. The whole thing screams: Blow. It. Up. Unfortunately, I think we're in a McCaskey situation here with JR as owner. The difference being the Bears sell out regardless. We don't. Not even close. Hell, even the hardcore fans are bailing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:25 PM) So his qualifications of being a real MLB manager is 1 season of being fine with the Cubs. They may want to aim for higher than that. Renteria would be the interim and I'd be fine with that. I don't know what they'll do in the offseason. My guess is Sandy Alomar is next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 12:20 PM) It's not hard to do since the pattern in the organization is to use former players. Then the assumption is since the Sox last boneheaded move was to pick someone who decided not to be involved any longer in professional baseball. If you had said Paul Konerko, ok. But this is very specific to AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (South Sider @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 01:01 PM) I would love to be proven wrong, but the Sox just continue to embarrass themselves against divisional opponents and I don't really see that changing aside from the few series the Sox will eventually win. It's been said before and bears repeating: This is not an organization with a winning culture. As much as I'd love to see the Sox right the ship here and win the division or make it to the playoffs, I think that most of us are thinking that Robin and his management team are going to be unable to get this team ready to defeat the Tigers, Indians and Royals. If you can't beat them, you can't make it to the playoffs barring some insane luck. A good team in a tricky slump would have found a way to put their foot down and gone .500 in all the recent games against divisional rivals. Why? Because they are the guys you want to beat. Instead, the Sox have let this slump turn into a death spiral with seemingly no end in sight. I fully believe the team will get hot again, possibly go on another tear and get themselves back into the divisional race, but there is one common denominator that we all dread that has been a theme of the White Sox of recent times: That they will find ways to lose against their main competition. Momentum may or may not be a real thing in sports, but confidence is, and I believe the Sox have given the Indians, Tigers, and Royals all the confidence they will ever need against them. When you couple that with an apparent lack of confidence from the Sox end, it's easy to see that failure is imminent. Obviously, Robin is part of the problem, and it is definitely time for him to go. But who or what else is contributing to the problem? Do KW/RH lack the ability to hold their employees accountable and create a new organizational culture? Do players despise KW and their hatred for him affects their ability to play to their highest potential? Is Don Cooper too set in his ways? What exactly has Todd Steverson and his hitters been trying to do to improve their hitting? What is wrong with the players? Are none of our players strong leaders? I have hundreds of questions! I'd love to eat some nasty crow, but I think the Sox are toast. The arrivals of Chris Sale and Jose Abreu could have rejuvenated the organization, but did not. The hot start of this year was certainly deceiving because we are not used to hot starts. We are used to mid-season hot streaks that bring us close to .500, but not a hot start. It was nice, but has been proven to be nothing more than a regular hot streak just at a different part of the season. Moreover, and bash me all you want for this, but I am DONE with this version of the White Sox. This JR/KW/RH/RV/DC clown show. As a diehard fan, I am ready for significant organizational change and I know I probably will not get it. Unless magic and miracles really can happen, I won't be attending another Sox game this year. We vote with our dollars. Ideally, Jerry finally sells the team and the new owner makes changes across the board. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, but this grass here hasn't been cut in a long time and at least the grass over there will be freshly mowed. If Jerry doesn't sell the team, he needs to launch almost everyone in a management position and surround himself with new people (yeah right). These are dark days for the White Sox and their fans. They are going to lose tons of new baseball fans to the now amazing Cubs organization, revenue will continue to fall as more and more fans reach decisions like mine and there will seemingly always be a complete failure from the owner and his management team to instill a winning culture. I love watching the game of baseball, but if I want to watch bad baseball I'll go see the Kane County Cougars and save a bunch of money. Right now it just completely sucks to be a fan of this organization, but one day things will finally change. I just hope it is sooner rather than later. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly! As a die hard...it's not what we want. We have poured our hearts and souls into players like Adam Dunn, LaRoche and Garcia in the same way we have pulled for guys like Sale and Abreu. We wanted to see ALL players succeed here. Some did, some didn't, but it didn't change the fact that we wanted them all to be successful. We wanted this to be a different story...we wanted to see Robin Ventura carry our team back to the series. It just didn't happen! Not only did it not happen, but our whole organization has decayed greatly while waiting for it to happen. I keep saying...for the fans to believe in the management again anytime soon, it will take another championship with these guys on the field--like NOW...this year. Let them have their "told you so" moment and we will start to believe again. They better be SURE this is what they want to ride their ship down. Most people gave up 2 years ago when they saw the writing on the wall. Management keeps riding the ship down by adding more and more players...it's like the poker addict who runs out of $ and throws the deed to his house on the table, then his wedding ring...it's sad....especially when he's bluffing and everyone at the table knows it. Lipstick on a pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:25 PM) So his qualifications of being a real MLB manager is 1 season of being fine with the Cubs. They may want to aim for higher than that. So technically Ventura is 3 times as qualified, as he has been a big league manager for three years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 08:27 PM) The saddest part to me is you're going to lose a whole generation of young would-be fans to the Cubs, because they've been on an upward trend for years--and now it's peaking--while we've gone the complete opposite direction. Forget those of us who have been around--how long do you think youngsters are going to get behind the Sox because their parents did when all their classmates are enjoying a first-class, winning team (in a great park) that's probably going to the World Series this year and probably more than one in the near future? Again: the last decades speaks for itself. The system doesn't work. There's no learning curve. Even having an ace like Sale doesn't help, or potential ace Quintana who's been getting completely shafted by having no run support. Our big signings are busts, our farm league is in shambles--just what exactly is competently run at this organization? Then there's the other weird thing with seemingly good players like Eaton or even Frazier apparently regressing while White Sox. The whole thing screams: Blow. It. Up. Unfortunately, I think we're in a McCaskey situation here with JR as owner. The difference being the Bears sell out regardless. We don't. Not even close. Hell, even the hardcore fans are bailing. The only good thing about the Sox and only thing to attract kids/fans is the uniforms. They are the best in baseball with the black and white stripes and the Sox logo. The hat also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Rick Renteria managerial winning pct. .451 Robin Ventura managerial winning pct. .461 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:42 PM) The only good thing about the Sox and only thing to attract kids/fans is the uniforms. They are the best in baseball with the black and white stripes and the Sox logo. The hat also. LOL Yeah thats it. Uniforms are their biggest attraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:43 PM) Rick Renteria managerial winning pct. .451 Robin Ventura managerial winning pct. .461 Rick Renteria managed a team in total rebuild that was expected to have loosing seasons. Robin Ventura managed a team that was thought to be good enough to compete year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I agree that the Sox have the best uniform/hat in baseball but I don't think that's going to be enough to entice a new generation of fans--they suck, but they have cool stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) I don't know about biggest attraction, but the Sox logo is certainly iconic. I'm not sure if it's for all the right reasons all the time or if it even pays off, but there's something to be said about it. Edited June 13, 2016 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:43 PM) Rick Renteria managerial winning pct. .451 Robin Ventura managerial winning pct. .461 "Some other managers who turned out to be good had bad records at first, too" isn't exactly a bulletproof argument. Many more managers with bad records turned out to be bad and always had bad records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) "Some other managers who turned out to be good had bad records at first, too" isn't exactly a bulletproof argument. Many more managers with bad records turned out to be bad and always had bad records. The fact is, if you manage a bad team, you will have a bad record. If you think the White Sox are a bad team, no manager is going to make them a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) I agree that the Sox have the best uniform/hat in baseball but I don't think that's going to be enough to entice a new generation of fans--they suck, but they have cool stuff! The Cubs relied on that for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:29 PM) Renteria would be the interim and I'd be fine with that. I don't know what they'll do in the offseason. My guess is Sandy Alomar is next. I like it as well. I've met but don't know hum well. He really impressed me when he turned down the bench coach here, not wanting to look like he was waiting for RV to fail and take his job. Even though in reality, no matter where he was this is probably the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:01 PM) The fact is, if you manage a bad team, you will have a bad record. If you think the White Sox are a bad team, no manager is going to make them a good one. True fact! But how bad are we? Individually, our guys have been successful on both good teams and bad. Robertson was a stud on a good Yankees team, Frazier was a stud on a bad Reds team, Melky played well on some decent teams. LaRoche played well for a good Nationals team. Sale has been GREAT on some awful teams! This is probably the best starting 5 that either of our catchers have caught in their careers--both have been somewhat successful on other teams. You can go on! Collectively, our good players do not play well together. So you have to ask, what keeps that from happening? A good manager would not make our current team a good one overnight, but a good manager WOULD improve the culture of the team and you'd like to think that would lead to a higher probability of success over time and a higher expectation for new blood coming into the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (FT35 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) True fact! But how bad are we? Individually, our guys have been successful on both good teams and bad. Robertson was a stud on a good Yankees team, Frazier was a stud on a bad Reds team, Melky played well on some decent teams. LaRoche played well for a good Nationals team. Sale has been GREAT on some awful teams! This is probably the best starting 5 that either of our catchers have caught in their careers--both have been somewhat successful on other teams. You can go on! Collectively, our good players do not play well together. So you have to ask, what keeps that from happening? A good manager would not make our current team a good one overnight, but a good manager WOULD improve the culture of the team and you'd like to think that would lead to a higher probability of success over time and a higher expectation for new blood coming into the organization. I'm not buying it. These guys have been great, good, average, bad, and awful this year alone. They were 23-10. Was he a genius then a total moron? The truth is in between. The hot start got a lot of people excited, probably too much so, and this down period has a lot of people wondering if they will ever be average again. The truth almost certainly lies somewhere in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 12:44 PM) Yet Larry Himes was able to get it done under the same ownership, and you threw a "well he had top 10 picks" in there. So did Roland and he failed miserably. Don't downplay Larry Himes, and then come up with excuses for Roland. One difference between the Mike Trout one was a lot more teams passed on Trout. Bonds was the next pick after Brown. Don't tell me you wouldn't be holding that against KW ever. So who is downplaying Himes? I'm not. All I said was I thought Roland was the best GM under JR especially given the circumstances. I've tried very hard to find out more info and get to the root of the dislike between the two men to little avail. All I have to work with are statements on the record by JR on the Chet Coppock show and info from jeff Torborg. He did a nice job building the farm with four consecutive top 10 picks. I'd certainly hope most GM could have a good success rate with that. Don't try to make something out of nothing please. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Extra points for whoever can tell me what movie that is from Edited June 13, 2016 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 02:03 PM) The Cubs relied on that for decades. No, they relied on Wrigley Field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 03:32 PM) Extra points for whoever can tell me what movie that is from Independence Day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 George Offman's Twitter/ FB "When I asked Adam to Eaton about Robin Ventura's job status his answer was ....next question" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.