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Robin Ventura should be fired today


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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 02:14 PM)
Try 30.

What's really amazing today is that we have the example of the Astros...a team that got the top pick 3 times in a row and completely blew 2 of them, and they were able to rebuild to a playoff team within 6 years of their last winning season. A team doing literally everything possible to f*** up a rebuild managed to get it done in 6 years. They may not turn into a title contender ever, they may miss the playoffs again this year, etc, but "we blew 2 of our 3 top picks and still made the playoffs within 6 years" is a nice lesson.

 

The level of front office incompetence that the teams that are below .500 for longer than that have to display really must be remarkable.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 01:19 PM)
What's really amazing today is that we have the example of the Astros...a team that got the top pick 3 times in a row and completely blew 2 of them, and they were able to rebuild to a playoff team within 6 years of their last winning season. A team doing literally everything possible to f*** up a rebuild managed to get it done in 6 years. They may not turn into a title contender ever, they may miss the playoffs again this year, etc, but "we blew 2 of our 3 top picks and still made the playoffs within 6 years" is a nice lesson.

 

The level of front office incompetence that the teams that are below .500 for longer than that have to display really must be remarkable.

So the Sox should make the playoffs by 2018.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 01:43 PM)
If they don't, then they've pulled off "more incompetent than a team that blew 2 #1 picks" and that's one heckuva job.

Depending on your definition of incompetent, yes. But they wouldn't have had to sit through 3 straight seasons of at least 105 losses.

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I'll say this with 20/20 hindsight: If 3 straight 105 season losses accelerates and/or increases the frequency of playoff trips vs 9 seasons at or near .500 ball, I'd rather have the 3 miserable seasons. Because really - what's the difference if you're not making the playoffs anyway?

 

Sure as s*** isn't about putting butts in seats or this would be a very differently run organization....

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QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 03:14 PM)
I'll say this with 20/20 hindsight: If 3 straight 105 season losses accelerates and/or increases the frequency of playoff trips vs 9 seasons at or near .500 ball, I'd rather have the 3 miserable seasons. Because really - what's the difference if you're not making the playoffs anyway?

 

Sure as s*** isn't about putting butts in seats or this would be a very differently run organization....

The reason to highlight the Astros is - 2 of those 3 seasons, they didn't get the thing that comes with 105 losses that is supposed to make you better - a successful #1 pick. Yeah they had a larger international signing pool but what have they gotten from that so far? Out of those 3 seasons, they got "Carlos Correa and a draft as good as the one they'd have gotten if they'd won the world series". That's why they can be called "what should be the worst case scenario". Your franchise has no excuse if it can't do better than that.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 03:19 PM)
The reason to highlight the Astros is - 2 of those 3 seasons, they didn't get the thing that comes with 105 losses that is supposed to make you better - a successful #1 pick. Yeah they had a larger international signing pool but what have they gotten from that so far? Out of those 3 seasons, they got "Carlos Correa and a draft as good as the one they'd have gotten if they'd won the world series". That's why they can be called "what should be the worst case scenario". Your franchise has no excuse if it can't do better than that.

 

I hear ya and agree. However, one other thing about the Astros that can't be overlooked is they also switched out of the most crowded division in baseball to the least.

 

That had to help.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 02:19 PM)
The reason to highlight the Astros is - 2 of those 3 seasons, they didn't get the thing that comes with 105 losses that is supposed to make you better - a successful #1 pick. Yeah they had a larger international signing pool but what have they gotten from that so far? Out of those 3 seasons, they got "Carlos Correa and a draft as good as the one they'd have gotten if they'd won the world series". That's why they can be called "what should be the worst case scenario". Your franchise has no excuse if it can't do better than that.

Their "success" was an 86 win season, and a playoff ouster. The unsuccessful, horrible, worst franchise in baseball White Sox have had an unsuccessful 90 win season in 2006, an unsuccessful 88 win season in 2010 and an unsuccessful 85 win season in 2012.

 

 

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 04:06 PM)
Their "success" was an 86 win season, and a playoff ouster. The unsuccessful, horrible, worst franchise in baseball White Sox have had an unsuccessful 90 win season in 2006, an unsuccessful 88 win season in 2010 and an unsuccessful 85 win season in 2012.

Who called them that? There are 3 teams with longer playoff droughts right now that I'd certainly rank as worse franchises, and a couple of the ones who made the playoffs in 2010-2011 don't exactly impress with their current moves.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 03:17 PM)
Who called them that? There are 3 teams with longer playoff droughts right now that I'd certainly rank as worse franchises, and a couple of the ones who made the playoffs in 2010-2011 don't exactly impress with their current moves.

That's right, you haven't been in gamethreads.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 04:19 PM)
That's right, you haven't been in gamethreads.

I'm moving in 2 months and thus didn't spend the money on the MLB tv package this year because hard to watch a game while packing and driving.

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If we're strictly looking at how the Astros and Sox have spent the last 10 years and where they are today as some kind of study as to who is more inept - you have to give the nod to the Sox. Both teams have exactly 1 playoff appearance and 1st round exit in that time (though - the Astros lasted a game longer and it was more recent). Add to this that the future for the Astros and their young core looks a lot better than the Sox does right now (I honestly don't know whose farm system is worse), and as Balta pointed out - the Astros even managed to waste TWO (2) #1 picks in this time.

 

It doesn't matter who had more wins because....who cares?? I'm not sure why you even keep bringing up 2nd and 3rd place finishes with 88 and 90 wins when it wasn't enough to get in the playoffs for a shot.

Edited by CB2.0
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The Astros' farm system is 10X better than ours.

 

Just from last season's first four draft picks alone...they would be better.

 

They also only have four teams in that division, although the other 3 are LAA, Seattle and Texas, very much spending like "large market" teams for sure.

 

In the ALC, you've only got the Tigers spending crazy amounts, and the Royals have pushed their payroll to the upper limits and it's still barely in the Top Half.

 

With the Astros, it all comes down to starting pitching. Keuchel has regressed a lot and Kazmir's gone. They've traded away from pretty good pitching talent to get guys like Giles and Carlos Gomez. I think there was one more deal that cost them a lot of pitching depth in there somewhere. And the bullpen has been a weakness as well.

 

Plus WAY too many K's in that starting line-up, although Springer/Altuve/Correa is as good a young trio/core as any team's.

 

 

Edited by caulfield12
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Yes, they might as well have.

 

Keep forgetting the Astros are back in the AL sometimes, what used to be a four team division.

 

Did the same thing with Fowler's time there in Houston.

 

Oh, well.

 

From a practical standpoint, the A's don't exist for the time being because of their stadium issue and the fact that they're now in rebuilding mode again after having a pretty good stretch of success for Beane (again).

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 8, 2016 -> 02:24 PM)
I'm moving in 2 months and thus didn't spend the money on the MLB tv package this year because hard to watch a game while packing and driving.

sounds like jail

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Robin survived the debacle in Kansas City in which we lost 3 games late in embarrassing fashion after losing 2 of 3 to KC in the Cell.

Now I ask you, of all the low moments during this stretch of s***tiness, can Robin survive if perhaps the WORST thing that's happened to us all year happens this weekend. A pathetic Kansas City team (with no starting pitching and AAA ballplayers adorning the lineup cept for Salvy, Cain, Hosmer and Morales) is going to come in the Cell and sweep us, extending our misery vs. the Central.

If we get swept by a KC team that has lost SEVEN in a row is that finally it for Robin? We've played so s***ty against KC that I can't imagine ANYBODY who is not a season ticket holder and I mean ANYBODY buying a walk-up ticket to any of the 3 games. So if we get swept, which I firmly believe we will, will Robin be fired??

 

Again ... think about what I'm saying. A KC team that has lost SEVEN in a row is about to sweep Chicago in the Cell. is that nuff to get rid of Robin?

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 12:57 AM)
Robin survived the debacle in Kansas City in which we lost 3 games late in embarrassing fashion after losing 2 of 3 to KC in the Cell.

Now I ask you, of all the low moments during this stretch of s***tiness, can Robin survive if perhaps the WORST thing that's happened to us all year happens this weekend. A pathetic Kansas City team (with no starting pitching and AAA ballplayers adorning the lineup cept for Salvy, Cain, Hosmer and Morales) is going to come in the Cell and sweep us, extending our misery vs. the Central.

If we get swept by a KC team that has lost SEVEN in a row is that finally it for Robin? We've played so s***ty against KC that I can't imagine ANYBODY who is not a season ticket holder and I mean ANYBODY buying a walk-up ticket to any of the 3 games. So if we get swept, which I firmly believe we will, will Robin be fired??

 

Again ... think about what I'm saying. A KC team that has lost SEVEN in a row is about to sweep Chicago in the Cell. is that nuff to get rid of Robin?

 

I'm convinced he's here till the end of the season. And that we'll keep trading prospects for veterans that can't help us. This cycle doesn't end until the team gets sold.

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I don't think KC is gonna sweep the Sox. I think the Sox will pull at least one out. It is likely though they get swept by the Nats

 

If the Sox did happen to get swept vs KC, no. Robin stays. The players get thrown under the bus

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QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 06:48 AM)
I have said it once and will say it again. If we lose each game the rest of the season, Robin doesn't get fired until the end of the season. He's here for the remainder of the year like it or not.

 

While probably true, I'm hoping they do something next week if they don't go at least 4-3 the rest of it.

 

9-24 or worse after 23-10 for a manager in his last season, they should hand it over to Renteria on the 16th.

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Where can I find what our team's BB rate was during our hot stretch vs. what is has been during our slump? Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but it seems like when our offense was really clicking we were drawing a ton of walks and recently we've lost that discipline. If there is a noticeable difference, to me that's proof we're really pressing right now and IMO a coach should be held accountable for that change in approach. Again, I could be totally wrong here, just what it feels like.

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