Stanford Sexual Assault case

[DrunkBomber]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36459504

 

Apologies if this has already been discussed in here but I didnt see it anywhere. The sentence this kid got is so absurd I dont even know how to react to it. Also, the letter from his father on his behalf, actually saying his son shoudlnt have to go to jail for "20 minutes of action" because hes already suffering and doesnt enjoy eating steaks anymore.

 

Is there anything they can do to about this now? After reading the letter the victim wrote you have to hope there is something more they can do to this guy.

[Jenksismyhero]

The whole story is sickening. What makes it worse is that the guy still won't admit what he did and he still claims it was consensual. And the judge seems to have ignored that in his sentencing.

[CrimsonWeltall]

The outrage over the light sentence is totally justified. He should have gotten far worse.

 

The outrage over the father's letter seems overblown. The father believes that it was some kind of consensual sexual act between 2 drunk people. That makes him an idiot (or delusional), not someone who thinks rape deserves a slap on the wrist, which is what everyone is portraying him as.

[DrunkBomber]

The outrage over the light sentence is totally justified. He should have gotten far worse.

 

The outrage over the father's letter seems overblown. The father believes that it was some kind of consensual sexual act between 2 drunk people. That makes him an idiot (or delusional), not someone who thinks rape deserves a slap on the wrist, which is what everyone is portraying him as.

I think most reasonable can understand a father wanting to believe and defend his son. It was the way he chose to word everything that just made it come across so much worse. To actually say your kid has suffered enough because he doesnt enjoy steak and potato chips anymore is really a slap in the face to the victim. You can stand by your family without saying things so dumb and insulting.

[Chisoxfn]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/heres...PKnz#.mjVxjv3Dj

 

The letter she read to the victim is incredibly powerful. Unbelievable that the guy still hasn't fessed up to doing more than just drinking too much booze. And major props to the two bike riders who came to her defense.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I think most reasonable can understand a father wanting to believe and defend his son. It was the way he chose to word everything that just made it come across so much worse. To actually say your kid has suffered enough because he doesnt enjoy steak and potato chips anymore is really a slap in the face to the victim. You can stand by your family without saying things so dumb and insulting.

 

Very true.

[Y2HH]

I have faith this douche will get what's coming to him.

[Brian]

I have faith this douche will get what's coming to him.

 

Was going to post same thing. Like the rich kid who got off with killing people whil drunk driving and claimed affluenza. He'll be back in the news.

[greg775]

I do not want any applause for what I am about to share. I am appalled by this case and the verdict of course. My best wishes to the victim. Sad what she had to go through!

 

I'd like to ask all of you if you ever were in a similar situation.

 

I was in college and at the bar drinking what they call schooners of beer here. It's like 3 beers in one. I probably had 3 of em and was pretty buzzed. I wasn't driving. My roommate was. At the bar I started talking to some girl and my friend started talking to her friend.

 

After the bar closed, my roommate drove us to their dorm and we went up to their respective rooms. I had decided to pick up this girl, ostensibly for a college one-nighter even though I didn't think she was that cute/hot, whatever. But I had decided to go for it as she made it clear I could pick her up.

 

Anyhow, we get to her room and a delayed drunkenness hit her hard.

She was all woozy and basically passing out. She was kind of continuing to flirt. My brain (thanks, Mom and Dad for raising me right) immediately said, 'well that's that, no sex tonight.' I put her in her bed, put her blanket on her, said goodbye and put a garbage bin next to her bed, exited her room, and somehow located my friend and busted up his tryst so he could drive me home. He was pissed of course. I think his 'date' ended up coming with us, lol.

 

I never ever considered taking advantage of somebody in a drunken stupor/passed out.

 

It turned out she was a little sister to our frat and at our next function she had a friend come up to me and say how much her friend appreciated my behavior and how she was too embarrassed to thank me. Her friend told me she wanted me to ask her out. I never did.

 

Have any of you had similar situations in college where your 'date' or 'pick up' was passed out like that? How did you handle it?

Edited June 8, 2016 by greg775

[Quin]

I do not want any applause for what I am about to share. I am appalled by this case and the verdict of course. My best wishes to the victim. Sad what she had to go through!

 

I'd like to ask all of you if you ever were in a similar situation.

 

I was in college and at the bar drinking what they call schooners of beer here. It's like 3 beers in one. I probably had 3 of em and was pretty buzzed. I wasn't driving. My roommate was. At the bar I started talking to some girl and my friend started talking to her friend.

 

After the bar closed, my roommate drove us to their dorm and we went up to their respective rooms. I had decided to pick up this girl, ostensibly for a college one-nighter even though I didn't think she was that cute/hot, whatever. But I had decided to go for it as she made it clear I could pick her up.

 

Anyhow, we get to her room and a delayed drunkenness hit her hard.

She was all woozy and basically passing out. She was kind of continuing to flirt. My brain (thanks, Mom and Dad for raising me right) immediately said, 'well that's that, no sex tonight.' I put her in her bed, put her blanket on her, said goodbye and put a garbage bin next to her bed, exited her room, and somehow located my friend and busted up his tryst so he could drive me home. He was pissed of course. I think his 'date' ended up coming with us, lol.

 

I never ever considered taking advantage of somebody in a drunken stupor/passed out.

 

It turned out she was a little sister to our frat and at our next function she had a friend come up to me and say how much her friend appreciated my behavior and how she was too embarrassed to thank me. Her friend told me she wanted me to ask her out. I never did.

 

Have any of you had similar situations in college where your 'date' or 'pick up' was passed out like that? How did you handle it?

 

Haven't had that experience no, but you're a good man Greg.

[greg775]

Haven't had that experience no, but you're a good man Greg.

Thank you! I do appreciate that.

[caulfield12]

That possibility exists every night in Colombia, Thailand, the Philippines and Indonesia.

 

So best stay away from those countries, Gregster. Too many temptations.

 

I was actually drugged once in Colombia in a bar and I had to be tested to see if the woman had sex with me when I was unconscious, lol. Well, it wasn't so funny at the time because my g/f at the time found out I was with another girl and it was a big scandal in our apartment complex. Plus my g/f was a professional masseuse, so that was the end of that.

 

Luckily, she only took about $40 in cash and left all my credit and bank cards, driver's license, passport/visa, etc. Could have been worse. Some guys had their cars/trucks stolen by the same group who were lacing drinks in bars throughout that region of the country.

[Texsox]

The idea that it could have been consensual is just ridiculous. Dad's letter was horrible. The sentence is a throw back to the 1950s and the judge made a huge mistake.

 

There is an issue here that isn't neat and tidy.

 

It is obvious that at some point a woman has had too much to drink and can't consent. And we really should not hold her responsible for drinking too much and having something bad happen. We also shouldn't treat people differently based on sex. If a guy is raped by another guy or a woman, the same consequences should apply to the rapist. The issue that I struggle with is at some point is the other person too drunk to be responsible for their actions? Being drunk shouldn't be an excuse for rape.

 

Not in this case but given an example of two drunks having sex, who has raped who?

[Balta1701]

The idea that it could have been consensual is just ridiculous. Dad's letter was horrible. The sentence is a throw back to the 1950s and the judge made a huge mistake.

 

There is an issue here that isn't neat and tidy.

 

It is obvious that at some point a woman has had too much to drink and can't consent. And we really should not hold her responsible for drinking too much and having something bad happen. We also shouldn't treat people differently based on sex. If a guy is raped by another guy or a woman, the same consequences should apply to the rapist. The issue that I struggle with is at some point is the other person too drunk to be responsible for their actions? Being drunk shouldn't be an excuse for rape.

 

Not in this case but given an example of two drunks having sex, who has raped who?

Who says no in the case that you're giving? Are both parties actually able to give or deny consent? Hypothetically its whoever says no.

 

In a solely legal sense what you present is a tough case because at some point both parties could be intoxicated enough to be unable to actually consent. In that case now you have to figure out whether someone actually denied consent with very little evidence and probably no one able to testify about how things actually happened unless there was some other witness.

[greg775]

That possibility exists every night in Colombia, Thailand, the Philippines and Indonesia.

 

So best stay away from those countries, Gregster. Too many temptations.

 

I was actually drugged once in Colombia in a bar and I had to be tested to see if the woman had sex with me when I was unconscious, lol. Well, it wasn't so funny at the time because my g/f at the time found out I was with another girl and it was a big scandal in our apartment complex. Plus my g/f was a professional masseuse, so that was the end of that.

 

Luckily, she only took about $40 in cash and left all my credit and bank cards, driver's license, passport/visa, etc. Could have been worse. Some guys had their cars/trucks stolen by the same group who were lacing drinks in bars throughout that region of the country.

That is crazy that you got drugged. Scary.

[StrangeSox]

Pretty solid article on this from Ken White (the Popehat blog guy/lawyer)

 

BROCK ALLEN TURNER: THE SORT OF DEFENDANT WHO IS SPARED “SEVERE IMPACT”

 

Better to read the whole thing to get the full impact rather than an excerpt.

[StrangeSox]

As for what could be done to prevent something like this from happening again, I'm not really sure there are any 'solutions' that wouldn't create even worse problems. Mandatory minimums have been pretty disastrous, and calling for a judge to be recalled over one bad sentencing would seem to set a bad precedent.

[Balta1701]

As for what could be done to prevent something like this from happening again, I'm not really sure there are any 'solutions' that wouldn't create even worse problems. Mandatory minimums have been pretty disastrous, and calling for a judge to be recalled over one bad sentencing would seem to set a bad precedent.

I don't think I have any problem with a judge being recalled over one particularly bad sentence. Do we generally trust this judge's decision making process if it on one occasion led to this sentence? Can you give an argument why we should just assume this is "one bad sentence" and not representative of the way the judge deals with cases in general?

[DrunkBomber]

I don't think I have any problem with a judge being recalled over one particularly bad sentence. Do we generally trust this judge's decision making process if it on one occasion led to this sentence? Can you give an argument why we should just assume this is "one bad sentence" and not representative of the way the judge deals with cases in general?

I think the fact that the judge was also an athlete at Stanford is pretty damning.

[StrangeSox]

I think the fact that the judge was also an athlete at Stanford is pretty damning.

That's what that article I posted above gets into--empathy, and the sorts of people our judicial system will more typically feel it for.

[StrangeSox]

I don't think I have any problem with a judge being recalled over one particularly bad sentence. Do we generally trust this judge's decision making process if it on one occasion led to this sentence? Can you give an argument why we should just assume this is "one bad sentence" and not representative of the way the judge deals with cases in general?

I don't know about this judge's history at all aside from this one case, which I guess is sort of the point. The recall campaign would be entirely about this one sentence and not whether he is actually a good and well-qualified judge. I know this is along the lines of a "notably rare exceptions" argument, but I'm not really a fan of recalls in general.

[Texsox]

Who says no in the case that you're giving? Are both parties actually able to give or deny consent? Hypothetically its whoever says no.

 

In a solely legal sense what you present is a tough case because at some point both parties could be intoxicated enough to be unable to actually consent. In that case now you have to figure out whether someone actually denied consent with very little evidence and probably no one able to testify about how things actually happened unless there was some other witness.

 

Isn't that part of the issue? Neither person really can say no, but that is different than giving consent.

 

In other areas, such as driving, we tell the drunk driver, you are responsible for your actions while drunk. Then we might tell that same person that they aren't responsible for having a sexual encounter because they were too drunk to consent.

 

We have this patchwork of responsible and not responsible when drunk. I don't have a solution, but it seems like we are not consistent.

 

 

[pettie4sox]

Isn't that part of the issue? Neither person really can say no, but that is different than giving consent.

 

In other areas, such as driving, we tell the drunk driver, you are responsible for your actions while drunk. Then we might tell that same person that they aren't responsible for having a sexual encounter because they were too drunk to consent.

 

We have this patchwork of responsible and not responsible when drunk. I don't have a solution, but it seems like we are not consistent.

 

Interesting point. Are you stating this in general or as it pertains to this case?

[StrangeSox]

Isn't that part of the issue? Neither person really can say no, but that is different than giving consent.

 

In other areas, such as driving, we tell the drunk driver, you are responsible for your actions while drunk. Then we might tell that same person that they aren't responsible for having a sexual encounter because they were too drunk to consent.

 

We have this patchwork of responsible and not responsible when drunk. I don't have a solution, but it seems like we are not consistent.

I'm not seeing the inconsistency. If I'm walking down the sidewalk while heavily intoxicated and get hit by a drunk driver, there's no question who's at fault there. The drunk driver is responsible, as is the drunk rapist.

[Texsox]

Interesting point. Are you stating this in general or as it pertains to this case?

 

In general.

 

A drunk gets in the car and causes a crash. After staggering out of the car the drunk has a sexual encounter. They are responsible for the crash, but too drunk to give consent to the sex?