Tim Anderson Called up...Rollins DFA'd

[CB2.0]

I dont want to go down that rabbit hole again but there are a lot of reasons why.

 

For one, that is not how JR operates.

 

Two, JR wouldnt do that.

 

If there is to be any accountability for the 3 year plan failing (and I'm not saying there will); I will guarantee you Hahn will go down before Kenny.

Edited June 10, 2016 by CB2.0

[southsider2k5]

If there is to be any accountability for the 3 year plan failing (and I'm not saying there will); I will guarantee you Hahn will go down before Kenny.

 

I could see the Sox letting Kenny leave for his promotion that he wanted so bad before I see Hahn leaving.

[Dick Allen]

I think they are desperate to have the team play meaningful games. If a team starts out 23-10 falls apart this quickly, it is just going to raise the bar for what will compel the fanbase to attend games.

 

The thing is, it remains to be seen if Anderson/Shields really is an upgrade over Rollins/Latos this season. Right now it seems they are throwing s*** against a wall and hoping it sticks, and probably will continue to do so if they don't go on a roll fairly soon.

 

 

[Black_Jack29]

I dont want to go down that rabbit hole again but there are a lot of reasons why.

 

For one, that is not how JR operates.

 

Two, JR wouldnt do that.

 

JR would probably offer Hahn a different position within the organization (probably Kenny's) rather than fire him outright, but I don't doubt for a second that JR would strongly consider removing Hahn from the GM position this winter. JR doesn't have another 10 or 15 years to win another championship. He wants to win now, and his public irritation with this team's performance shows his lack of patience.

 

If Hahn was so certain about his job security, he wouldn't be making desperation moves like throwing $30M at a washed-up James Shields and bringing up Tim Anderson a half-season before he's ready.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Black_Jack29

[CB2.0]

I could see the Sox letting Kenny leave for his promotion that he wanted so bad before I see Hahn leaving.

 

Shapiro's job? I think that's a pipe dream. Any team seeking a person to fill that position should have a much better track record of drafting, farm management, and international shenanigans.

[ptatc]

Our front office is behaving like they're in danger of losing their jobs. Whether they actually are can be debated, but they've shown all the telegraphs of a desperate group since the Shields trade.

Do you really thinks that's it or are they trying to improve a team that isn't playing well? If making moves is desperate, what would say if they didn't make any moves?

[southsider2k5]

Shapiro's job? I think that's a pipe dream. Any team seeking a person to fill that position should have a much better track record of drafting, farm management, and international shenanigans.

 

Toronto sure wanted him. The way baseball operates, I am sure they are far from the only ones.

[Black_Jack29]

Do you really thinks that's it or are they trying to improve a team that isn't playing well? If making moves is desperate, what would say if they didn't make any moves?

 

There's a difference between making smart moves and making moves for the sake of making a move. Shields was a "DO SOMETHING!" move that probably won't help the team all that much. Erik Johnson and Latos could've done Shields' job at a fraction of the cost. Morneau is a smart move that has a chance of actually helping the team. He's older and coming off of an injury, but will probably be more productive than Avi after his rehab stint.

 

 

[Rowand44]

JR would probably offer Hahn a different position within the organization (probably Kenny's) rather than fire him outright, but I don't doubt for a second that JR would strongly consider removing Hahn from the GM position this winter. JR doesn't have another 10 or 15 years to win another championship. He wants to win now, and his public irritation with this team's performance shows his lack of patience.

 

If Hahn was so certain about his job security, he wouldn't be making desperation moves like throwing $30M at a washed-up James Shields and bringing up Tim Anderson a half-season before he's ready.

What does 'ready' mean? Just cause he isn't fully developed yet doesn't mean he isn't capable of contributing at the major league level. It's entirely possible that Rick feels this gives the current major league team the best chance to win and is the best thing for Tim. I know that's how I feel.

[shysocks]

There's a difference between making smart moves and making moves for the sake of making a move. Shields was a "DO SOMETHING!" move that probably won't help the team all that much. Erik Johnson and Latos could've done Shields' job at a fraction of the cost. Morneau is a smart move that has a chance of actually helping the team. He's older and coming off of an injury, but will probably be more productive than Avi after his rehab stint.

Yes. I'll add the Anderson callup to the DO SOMETHING category, as there's a definite downside if it doesn't work out that's been covered here very well.

 

But it also has upside too. The Shields trade was just garbage. I think we're gonna be hating that for a long time.

[Dick Allen]

JR would probably offer Hahn a different position within the organization (probably Kenny's) rather than fire him outright, but I don't doubt for a second that JR would strongly consider removing Hahn from the GM position this winter. JR doesn't have another 10 or 15 years to win another championship. He wants to win now, and his public irritation with this team's performance shows his lack of patience.

 

If Hahn was so certain about his job security, he wouldn't be making desperation moves like throwing $30M at a washed-up James Shields and bringing up Tim Anderson a half-season before he's ready.

 

Ever since last year when KW made RH have to feel uncomfortable when he said when the chairman is upset he calls Kenny, the dynamic to me, between the 3, seems a bit odd. JR won't go directly to his GM? Or won't he go because he knows everything must go through KW? Who knows. They said opposing teams really didn't know who was in charge. I think it's clear KW is RH's boss. I just don't buy RH is a puppet, or that every good move had to be Hahn, every bad one had to be KW. I also think Hahn is a lot more similar with his baseball team building philosophy to KW that most believe or want to believe.

 

I do think Avi is an 0-4 or two away from being a Charlotte Knight. And Hahn's comment concerning Robin yesterday leads me to think he's a bad weekend away from being able to spend the rest of the summer with his family in Cali.

[ptatc]

There's a difference between making smart moves and making moves for the sake of making a move. Shields was a "DO SOMETHING!" move that probably won't help the team all that much. Erik Johnson and Latos could've done Shields' job at a fraction of the cost. Morneau is a smart move that has a chance of actually helping the team. He's older and coming off of an injury, but will probably be more productive than Avi after his rehab stint.

That remains to be seen. He has a better track record than either of them.

[Black_Jack29]

What does 'ready' mean? Just cause he isn't fully developed yet doesn't mean he isn't capable of contributing at the major league level. It's entirely possible that Rick feels this gives the current major league team the best chance to win and is the best thing for Tim. I know that's how I feel.

 

Nothing I've read about Anderson this year suggested that he was excelling at Charlotte and was ready to take the next step. And you have to remember that Anderson is not your typical prospect. He was primarily a basketball player in high school who didn't play baseball until later. So, development-wise, he's a little behind. For the sake of his development, it would've been preferable to leave Anderson in AAA for the remainder of the year and allow him to continue developing.

 

So while Anderson may be the best option for the Sox (and that's debatable), I don't agree that it's the best thing for Anderson in the long-term. And the Sox's farm system isn't exactly loaded with can't-miss position player prospects, so I wish that they would've handled him a little more cautiously. Especially since he's probably a .700 OPS in a best-case scenario this season, and thus a very modest upgrade over Saladino/Sanchez. He's also defensive downgrade from Saladino, which further lowers his current value to the team.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Black_Jack29

[ptatc]

Yes. I'll add the Anderson callup to the DO SOMETHING category, as there's a definite downside if it doesn't work out that's been covered here very well.

 

But it also has upside too. The Shields trade was just garbage. I think we're gonna be hating that for a long time.

I hope not. If so, they both should be fired. I hope they they did it because they think he is ready.

[Black_Jack29]

That remains to be seen. He has a better track record than either of them.

 

So did Danks. Age and wear-and-tear on the arm changes that.

 

[Black_Jack29]

I hope not. If so, they both should be fired. I hope they they did it because they think he is ready.

 

Maybe they think that, but it just doesn't make sense to me. Anderson is a defensive downgrade from Saladino. Offensively, he's probably an upgrade. But how much of an upgrade? A .700 OPS vs. a .650 OPS? Is that enough to justify bringing him up early? Maybe, but I'm not seeing it.

 

[tray]

Maybe this is far fetched but I suppose that it is at least possible that the Anderson move might also serve as a predicate for a trade. i.e., Saladino or Anderson for a player like Josh Reddick, Cargo, etc.

So if Anderson comes up and show great potential right off the bat, it might behoove the Sox in that way as well. Consider how Marcus Semien played at SS after being traded to the A's. Even Beane is probably spooked about trading for a guy who has not proven himself at the major league level.

 

Under similar logic, maybe the Sox spent 27 million too fast on Shields before determining that he still had enough gas left in the tank..

[Dick Allen]

If Anderson is worse than Rollins and Shields worse than Latos and/or Anderson, someone is building their own grave. So I would think they are confident these are upgrades. Shields was awful, but he's not that bad. I think there is better than 50/50 shot he is better than Latos. Whether that's worth picking up the money they pay him, I don't know.

 

If Anderson falls on his face, he'll just go back to Charlotte and Sanchez or someone else will take his place. It shouldn't be all that hard to get at least Rollins level production, but as we have seen before, sometimes that isn't as easy as it seems.

[CB2.0]

Maybe they think that, but it just doesn't make sense to me. Anderson is a defensive downgrade from Saladino. Offensively, he's probably an upgrade. But how much of an upgrade? A .700 OPS vs. a .650 OPS? Is that enough to justify bringing him up early? Maybe, but I'm not seeing it.

 

Me thinks this probably has more to do with sending a message to the team than anything else. That the FO is committed to try and do anything/everything to turn things around.

 

Let's face it - SS is weak and thin anyway. Saladino and Sanchez have had a shot. And as you noted; not likely to be much difference offensively.

 

Unless he commits 10 Es in 10 games, I don't see what harm it can do. It's been widely reported that he's not the type mentally to fall apart and lose his s*** when he struggles.

 

[RockRaines]

If Anderson is worse than Rollins and Shields worse than Latos and/or Anderson, someone is building their own grave. So I would think they are confident these are upgrades. Shields was awful, but he's not that bad. I think there is better than 50/50 shot he is better than Latos. Whether that's worth picking up the money they pay him, I don't know.

 

If Anderson falls on his face, he'll just go back to Charlotte and Sanchez or someone else will take his place. It shouldn't be all that hard to get at least Rollins level production, but as we have seen before, sometimes that isn't as easy as it seems.

Shields is supposed to eat more innings than Latos basically. Thats his job.

[NCsoxfan]

Really surprised at all of the concern about bringing up Anderson too early. Look, the kid is not 18 years old! He's been playing pro ball for a number of years now. Do we think if he goes 1-16 he's going to fall into a deep depression and never recover? There's tons of young prospects that have come up to the big leagues with much less experience than Anderson and succeeded!

[Black_Jack29]

Maybe this is far fetched but I suppose that it is at least possible that the Anderson move might also serve as a predicate for a trade. i.e., Saladino or Anderson for a player like Josh Reddick, Cargo, etc.

 

If Hahn traded Anderson for a few months of Reddick, he should be fired. I doubt that Anderson will be traded.

 

If Anderson is worse than Rollins and Shields worse than Latos and/or Anderson, someone is building their own grave. So I would think they are confident these are upgrades. Shields was awful, but he's not that bad. I think there is better than 50/50 shot he is better than Latos. Whether that's worth picking up the money they pay him, I don't know.

 

If Shields was getting paid Latos money, I wouldn't have a problem with him. But $30M for a 34-year-old with a ton of innings on his arm, declining velocity, and a below-average record in a pitcher's park in the NL sounds like a serious reach. Yeah, he won't be as bad as he was a couple of nights ago. But I don't see him being a significantly better option than EJ or one of our minor league pitchers at this point. Maybe Shields isn't as bad as Danks was this year, but he's probably not far away and he might be there in 2017.

 

[Dick Allen]

Shields is supposed to eat more innings than Latos basically. Thats his job.

Right an extra inning or 2 a start.

 

Up until Seattle, he had been going 6 or 7 every start.

[CB2.0]

With the fans - your damned if you and damned if you don't anyway.

 

Remember the last Anderson we brought up? He wasn't rushed, and the knock was he failed at the MLB level for not being played ENOUGH because Ozzie hated rookies.

 

I'm excited to see what he can do.

 

 

[tray]

If Hahn traded Anderson for a few months of Reddick, he should be fired. I doubt that Anderson will be traded

 

It should go without saying that any trade for a player like Reddick who is in the last year of his Contract would be preceded by talks with his agent about the parameters of a Contract, 1.e., 3 years x dollars...

I would be happy to get decent trade value for Anderson who appears to lack plate discipline and may not have the defensive skills to remain at SS.