Kyyle23 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 08:54 AM) Point taken, but if it comes down to overpaying for a Cespedes/Encarnacion type player or signing an Austin Jackson type player for peanuts and getting peanuts in production, I'm overpaying for those 2-3 good years all day. I'm not a financial whiz, and again, 150MM was the first arbitrary number that popped in my head. If a player of his caliber says "I want this and I'll sign with you", then you match that offer RIGHT NOW in my opinion. If this was a rebuilding team I'd say hell no, but it's a team that's in desperation mode and desperate times call for desperate measures. What it boils down to for me is that they have to get to the playoffs by 2019. After that everyone will be on the backend of their careers. They'll be lousy after then anyways, so who cares if they have bad money on the books? Sale/Q/Eaton/Abreu will all be on the wrong side of 30 and not as valuable as they are now. So, again, go big or go home. By then Reinsdorf will be 85ish anyways, so he shouldn't give a s*** about money. If desperate times call for desperate measures, i sure as hell hope they choose someone other than Encarnacion to spend all of that money on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosoxgo2005 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 09:13 AM) If desperate times call for desperate measures, i sure as hell hope they choose someone other than Encarnacion to spend all of that money on Okay. Cespedes, Bruce and Reddick are the other options, with Bruce having a team option this year. Might only be Reddick, and the A's are reportedly trying to extend him. Soooo it might only Cespedes and Encarnacion. If it is then the demand will outweigh the supply, driving their prices up. It doesn't matter who it is for me really. As long as it's not the same patchwork we've been seeing. I really like Austin Jackson--- as a guy who plays 4-5 times a week with maybe 2-3 starts and as a defensive replacement. It's a really sad state when Austin Jackson goes down and it's a HUGE blow to your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 11:05 AM) Okay. Cespedes, Bruce and Reddick are the other options, with Bruce having a team option this year. Might only be Reddick, and the A's are reportedly trying to extend him. Soooo it might only Cespedes and Encarnacion. If it is then the demand will outweigh the supply, driving their prices up. It doesn't matter who it is for me really. As long as it's not the same patchwork we've been seeing. I really like Austin Jackson--- as a guy who plays 4-5 times a week with maybe 2-3 starts and as a defensive replacement. It's a really sad state when Austin Jackson goes down and it's a HUGE blow to your team. I'd throw good money at Reddick or Cespedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Mike, you should absolutely care what they spend their money on. Paying a player a ton of money that then busts can be crippling for an organization like the Sox. Want a consistently good product on the field? Don't just clamor for the stupidest deal of the offseason. Remember, you're money and tv watching allows the Sox to spend this money, I sure as hell don't want to spend it on a good but not great 34 yr old for a team that is still a few pieces away from being a WS contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosoxgo2005 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 10:18 AM) Mike, you should absolutely care what they spend their money on. Paying a player a ton of money that then busts can be crippling for an organization like the Sox. Want a consistently good product on the field? Don't just clamor for the stupidest deal of the offseason. Remember, you're money and tv watching allows the Sox to spend this money, I sure as hell don't want to spend it on a good but not great 34 yr old for a team that is still a few pieces away from being a WS contender. I know this isn't an exact science, but with Q, Sale, Eaton and even Abreu on EXTREMELY team friendly deals, this should allow them to overplay for a 4 win player. That's what the Cubs did with lester. With Collins (hopefully ready about a year, year and a half from now) and a stud OF in the mold of a Yo, Reddick, Encarnacion, whoever, you take care of 2 of the gaping holes that are impeding the Sox from being WS contenders. Players of that caliber don't come cheap, and they RARELY come young. The Sox don't have that player in their system right now, or the pieces to trade for one either. Signing one is their only option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 IMO "playoff contender" and "World Series contender" are redundant terms, they're one and the same in baseball. Just have to be good enough to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 11:23 AM) I know this isn't an exact science, but with Q, Sale, Eaton and even Abreu on EXTREMELY team friendly deals, this should allow them to overplay for a 4 win player. That's what the Cubs did with lester. With Collins (hopefully ready about a year, year and a half from now) and a stud OF in the mold of a Yo, Reddick, Encarnacion, whoever, you take care of 2 of the gaping holes that are impeding the Sox from being WS contenders. Players of that caliber don't come cheap, and they RARELY come young. The Sox don't have that player in their system right now, or the pieces to trade for one either. Signing one is their only option Also, expecting Collins before 2018 is extremely optimistic if we try to keep him at catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosoxgo2005 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) IMO "playoff contender" and "World Series contender" are redundant terms, they're one and the same in baseball. Just have to be good enough to get there. QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 10:40 AM) Also, expecting Collins before 2018 is extremely optimistic if we try to keep him at catcher. agree on both counts. I do think Collins will be somewhat accelerated through the system just for the sake of getting his bat in the lineup, and that he'll wind up at DH. Just a hunch with no reasoning behind it. The point still remains though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 11:44 AM) agree on both counts. I do think Collins will be somewhat accelerated through the system just for the sake of getting his bat in the lineup, and that he'll wind up at DH. Just a hunch with no reasoning behind it. The point still remains though It'll be interesting with the route they go. If his bat moves him quickly, I'd imagine they'd try to keep him catching as long as possible and not give up a la Schwarber (granted, Schwarber is the most DH style player in the league) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 10:40 AM) Also, expecting Collins before 2018 is extremely optimistic if we try to keep him at catcher. People need to stop talking about Collins in any sort of present time frame. Realistically you have to hope for 2 years, and be perfectly fine with 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosoxgo2005 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 10:56 AM) People need to stop talking about Collins in any sort of present time frame. Realistically you have to hope for 2 years, and be perfectly fine with 3. Why do we NEED to stop talking about Collins in any sort of present time frame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 12:09 PM) I disagree. Collins will move quickly. He's very likely the first bat to make the MLB from this class. Catcher or not. Really? Is it because he is with the Sox or you think he is THAT close? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 01:06 PM) Why do we NEED to stop talking about Collins in any sort of present time frame? QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) People need to stop talking about Collins in any sort of present time frame. Realistically you have to hope for 2 years, and be perfectly fine with 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 12:06 PM) Why do we NEED to stop talking about Collins in any sort of present time frame? Because there is basically zero chance of his being a contributor before 2018, at the absolute least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosoxgo2005 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 12:33 PM) Because there is basically zero chance of his being a contributor before 2018, at the absolute least. Oh yeah? Did someone within the organization tell you that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 01:06 PM) Oh yeah? Did someone within the organization tell you that? Did someone in the organization tell you different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosoxgo2005 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 01:28 PM) Did someone in the organization tell you different? No, but I'm not speaking in definitives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 01:06 PM) Oh yeah? Did someone within the organization tell you that? Catchers take much longer to develop and it's too important of a defensive position to try and develop at the MLB level. If Collins is up before 2018 it means that they have given up on him as a catcher and I don't think they want to do that. Edited June 27, 2016 by lasttriptotulsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Didn't Beckham come up in June the year after he was drafted? Wasn't there some posts on despite his early success he was rushed, and that hurt him? It's possible he comes up sometime next season, almost everything would have to go right, unless it's a September call up or something. It's more realistic 2018 or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Collins strikes me as a player that will get near the majors very quickly. It's harder to predict if he hits a wall in AA or AAA, but I think he will massacre lower minors pitching and that means he ends up a good couple months in AA or AAA away from a call-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosoxgo2005 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 What does Gordon Beckham have to do with Zack Collins...? And yes, part of my completely knee-jerk prediction that he'll accelerate quickly through the system is that they want his bat in the lineup sooner than later. They can say he will stick at catcher right now all they want, in my (baseless) opinion, I have a feeling that's not actually the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 12:09 PM) I disagree. Collins will move quickly. He's very likely the first bat to make the MLB from this class. Catcher or not. Agreed. I think he sees the majors next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 The bat will definitely be able to move quickly through the system, but the question is whether or not the glove will be able to follow. Knowing the organization, they will either move him off the position or just not care about his defensive ability to get his bat in the line up as soon as possible. It will probably be some point next year I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 The connection with Beckham is they were both college players, similar spots in the first round, came from power conferences (ACC/SEC) for baseball, Beckham was the Golden Spikes winner that year...so his profile was even a bit higher than Collins, even. At any rate, you potentially see (or saw) that issue of position changes trying to get their bats to the big leagues as quickly as possible. Beckham from SS to 3B because there was a hole there after Crede's back problems. Collins, because we desperately need another power bat in the line-up and also because the market for catching is so poor (W.Ramos and Wieters potentially, and I think Jason Castro.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 QUOTE (gatnom @ Jun 27, 2016 -> 04:06 PM) The bat will definitely be able to move quickly through the system, but the question is whether or not the glove will be able to follow. Knowing the organization, they will either move him off the position or just not care about his defensive ability to get his bat in the line up as soon as possible. It will probably be some point next year I would think. He's a DH/1B anyway, f*** his glove. He may be the most patient bat on the team if they brought him up right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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