Pulse Nightclub Shooting in Orlando

[caulfield12]

Because we keep refusing to call it "radical Islam," meaning many Democrats.

 

As opposed to all those "radical Christians" who do stupid things in the name of religion all around the world, and have ever since the time of the Crusades/Inquisition.

 

But we don't want to call ourselves radicals...just others/outsiders/foreigners/people with different beliefs than ours.

[southsider2k5]

Because we keep refusing to call it "radical Islam," meaning many Democrats.

 

As opposed to all those "radical Christians" who do stupid things in the name of religion all around the world, and have ever since the time of the Crusades/Inquisition.

 

But we don't want to call ourselves radicals...just others/outsiders/foreigners/people with different beliefs than ours.

 

Which is funny, because I sure see the right wing labeled as radical...

[Brian]

Not sure which thread to put this in but check out this timeline.

https://twitter.com/JYSexton

[caulfield12]

Which is funny, because I sure see the right wing labeled as radical...

 

 

For their political, but not so much religious ideas.

 

Not since the days of Buchanan/Robertson/Ralph Reed...Moral Majority, Falwell, etc.

 

 

The likes of Huckabee, Santorum and a certain Texas senator have tried to take advantage of that niche, but it's shrinking and they don't behave as one solid/manageable bloc of voters anymore.

[pettie4sox]

Trump is the Republican nominee.

 

lo f***ing l

[greg775]

Greg, how does being "too PC" have anything to do with this? Please explain.

Because, coworkers tried to turn the killer into HR and they'd have none of it at his work because of PC concerns. He could sue for harassment.

Because neighbors can't turn guys into the police when they see something unusual cause they don't want to be labeled minority haters.

[caulfield12]

So what consideration should be given when overzealous people constantly are wrong and suspect someone just because they're wearing a hijab/burka or skullcap on a plane? Even a professor doing a mathematics equation...he must have the "secret recipe" for bomb planted on the airplane, right? Logical conclusion.

 

Free tickets on that airline for life? The false reporter has some type of consequence?

 

What about those trying to police the bathrooms and they're constantly mistaking men for women and vice-versa...?

 

It's not what the Founding Fathers would have ever wanted. It's not Christian...at least New Testament Christian. It's not what Jesus Would Do.

 

 

Aren't the way we're going to treat Muslims the modern-day equivalent of the way that sinners/prostitutes/money changers/tax collectors were treated at the time of Christ?

 

It's a tricky situation because we are a country of laws. If you're a teacher and you don't notice abuse and/or don't report it, you're responsible. If you make a false accusation, you're responsible (or should be). If you let students sleep in class even if they're working from 330 pm until 11:30 p.m. and barely have any food at home and lucky to have any attention from a single mother, you're also responsible and can be fired for negligence. All I'm saying is if we go down this road, it's not too far away from what the Nazis did to the Jews from 1933-1945. It's a path more similar than most of us would like to admit, with racism/prejudice/fear comingled in a brew of intolerance and xenophobia.

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/opinions/tru...rgen/index.html

Greg, I want you to read this, and give a serious response that doesn't mention the name Hillary once...tell me why you believe the author and Obama are wrong and Trump is right on this issue.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Because, coworkers tried to turn the killer into HR and they'd have none of it at his work because of PC concerns. He could sue for harassment.

Because neighbors can't turn guys into the police when they see something unusual cause they don't want to be labeled minority haters.

 

He was investigated by the FBI twice, and he was removed from his position at the court house when coworkers complained about him. How do you think "pc" stopped the FBI from doing their jobs?

 

edit: he was also given the MMPI, a standard in-depth psychological screening, at least once by his employer. He had originally been assigned to the county court house, but people there complained that he prayed in arabic several times a day. Around that same time is when the FBI did their investigation. Due to tensions with coworkers and complaints from the customer (the court house), his employer reassigned him to a different post at a gated residential community after putting him through another background check and after the FBI completed their investigations finding no cause for arrest.

Edited June 15, 2016 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Which is funny, because I sure see the right wing labeled as radical...

Did you listen to trumps speech on Monday?

[southsider2k5]

Did you listen to trumps speech on Monday?

 

Did you listen to Obama's? Remember you don't need to label to be effective? Remember you only alienate groups of people? Drive the moderates away?

[RockRaines]

Which is funny, because I sure see the right wing labeled as radical...

The far right is pretty radical, as is the far left.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Because, coworkers tried to turn the killer into HR and they'd have none of it at his work because of PC concerns. He could sue for harassment.

Because neighbors can't turn guys into the police when they see something unusual cause they don't want to be labeled minority haters.

 

What evidence is there that he wasn't fired due to "PC concerns"? How would getting fired from his job have prevented the attack?

[caulfield12]

If anything, firing someone from their job would make them MORE likely to commit an attack.

 

They can plan more independently, and fewer people will notice their mood/disposition, as clearly happened with not only his co-workers but also his wife.

 

The problem is that you're relying on them to stop the attack, and not the FBI, because it's simply unrealistic to think the FBI has the ability to stop every single determined gun owner out there. Outlaw the guns? Well, they'll get them somewhere, on the black market or bring them into the US on a boat or whatever or through Mexico/Canada.

[bmags]

Did you listen to Obama's? Remember you don't need to label to be effective? Remember you only alienate groups of people? Drive the moderates away?

 

When the democratic nominee gives a speech blasting the democratic president for not saying "radical right" when talking about gun control, you can throw around your #bothsides insults in all of its glory. But for now, the right nominated Donald Trump, who is making the case that all non-white people living in America are not really Americans. It's just #oneside.

[southsider2k5]

When the democratic nominee gives a speech blasting the democratic president for not saying "radical right" when talking about gun control, you can throw around your #bothsides insults in all of its glory. But for now, the right nominated Donald Trump, who is making the case that all non-white people living in America are not really Americans. It's just #oneside.

 

#itsdifferent

[bmags]

It is different. Donald Trump believes the President of the United States faked his birth certificate and was born in Kenya. While some people on the left say that Bush planned 9/11.

 

Same thing. It's just like when Reinsdorf complained about Horace Grant backing out of a verbal deal.

[RockRaines]

Almost everything Trump says is a lie designed to pick up votes within a certain demographic. He could literally say anything at any time and he believes very little of it.

[DrunkBomber]

Nobody here is defending Donald Trump though. I only know of one person on here who said they were voting for Trump he did a good enough job explaining why and has seemingly stopped discussing it. Other than that it seems like pretty much every other poster on here who has identified as a republican in the past has said they dislike Trump and wont vote for him. So why are people so quick to think that saying "Ya but look what Trump does" means anything in this discussion. Nobody is trying to say the things that Trump says arent vile but a lot of the democrats on this site try to justify things that Obama or Hillary say by saying its not as bad as Trump. We know that. I dont see people arguing over the hoards of negative Trump stuff on the board because almost everyone here agrees. So criticizing Hillary or Obama doesnt mean were saying the things they say are as bad as Trump.

[southsider2k5]

It is different. Donald Trump believes the President of the United States faked his birth certificate and was born in Kenya. While some people on the left say that Bush planned 9/11.

 

Same thing. It's just like when Reinsdorf complained about Horace Grant backing out of a verbal deal.

 

None of that stuff is actually the point. The point was the gigantic speech about not needing to label and marginalize large groups of people, all of which are being done anyway.

[bmags]

None of that stuff is actually the point. The point was the gigantic speech about not needing to label and marginalize large groups of people, all of which are being done anyway.

 

It is the point, because it's more important when people in power do it. Because when people in power do it it is part of policy, policy that can be enacted, policy that will affect real people. SO "some people on the left use labels" doesn't matter, because people on the left didn't nominate a candidate proposing new immigrants identifying as conservative sand banning them. Marginalizing them and taking away rights.

 

Trump matters in this thread because he is the republican nominee for president of the United States. So yes, people on message boards call a section of the republican party radicals.

 

But they didn't nominate a presidential candidate on the premise that they blame, marginalize, discriminate and remove rights of other American groups.

But the Republicans did. Important things are happening in the world and in the United States, and the Republicans elected Trump. He's not some random republican congressman saying dumb things, he is the major party canidate. It matters a lot what he says, what he says has a large constituency.

[southsider2k5]

It is the point, because it's more important when people in power do it. Because when people in power do it it is part of policy, policy that can be enacted, policy that will affect real people. SO "some people on the left use labels" doesn't matter, because people on the left didn't nominate a candidate proposing new immigrants identifying as conservative sand banning them. Marginalizing them and taking away rights.

 

Trump matters in this thread because he is the republican nominee for president of the United States. So yes, people on message boards call a section of the republican party radicals.

 

But they didn't nominate a presidential candidate on the premise that they blame, marginalize, discriminate and remove rights of other American groups.

But the Republicans did. Important things are happening in the world and in the United States, and the Republicans elected Trump. He's not some random republican congressman saying dumb things, he is the major party canidate. It matters a lot what he says, what he says has a large constituency.

 

The point is Obama made a whole speech about labels and radicalization, but apparently doesn't see any connection with labeling, and the further radicalization of this political party at home. If Obama really is right, and this does contribute, he, the Democratic candidate for President, and his party are assuming the same level of responsibility for Trump, that they are trying to assign to Republicans for the radicalization of moderates abroad. The President is marginalizing and labeling an entire group of people here, and sure doesn't see any problem with that. It makes his words ring much more hollow than the first time I listened to them.

[StrangeSox]

Just so we're clear, you're asserting that marginalizing an entire religion that makes up about 20% of the world due to a small percentage of extremists is on par with pointing out that the sort of ideas trump is proposing and his supporters want are radical, hateful and pragmatically counterproductive? And this somehow means that Democrats are equally to blame for the racist idiot conman that's the nominee of the other party?

 

Obama wasn't saying that calling out radicalism is bad, he was saying that lumping all Muslims in as radicals or at best complicit is.

[illinilaw08]

Just so we're clear, you're asserting that marginalizing an entire religion that makes up about 20% of the world due to a small percentage of extremists is on par with pointing out that the sort of ideas trump is proposing and his supporters want are radical, hateful and pragmatically counterproductive? And this somehow means that Democrats are equally to blame for the racist idiot conman that's the nominee of the other party?

 

Obama wasn't saying that calling out radicalism is bad, he was saying that lumping all Muslims in as radicals or at best complicit is.

 

So, I agree that labeling all Republicans as all having the same ideas and values as Trump holds is bad and counterproductive. Where that argument fails, however, is that social conservatives have co-opted legislatures - state and federal - with anti-LGBT, and anti-Muslim policies. The far right wing of the Republican party holds significantly more power over policy than the far left wing of the Democratic party, and that didn't start with Trump.

 

 

[bmags]

I"m at a loss.

 

Timeline:

Post Tea Party election, Democrats push idea that their policies are radically outside the political mainstream, beat them in elections in 2012. Labeling is bad.

 

DOnald Trump learns from this that labeling is okay, gets elected because of democrats, then pushes forth the idea that muslims are inherently radical in the sense that they want to murder and destroy the institution of America and should be banned, and it was a mistake to allow current muslim americans into this country.

 

Linear A-to-B argument.

[greg775]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/opinions/tru...rgen/index.html

Greg, I want you to read this, and give a serious response that doesn't mention the name Hillary once...tell me why you believe the author and Obama are wrong and Trump is right on this issue.

 

Like DrunkBomber says, there are no Trump supporters on soxtalk, not even Greg. I will not vote for Trump. I also as you know despise Hillary. So that means I write in somebody. As far as Trump's position on TEMPORARILY suspending people from some countries coming into the USA, well like the writer says it may not work because most of the attacks are made by assholes born in the USA. I wouldn't think a temporary ban would be the worst thing in history however. We have to attack this problem somehow. I don't even know what Trump thinks about gun control. I have a good buddy on Facebook who posted why he wants to keep his guns and it was an effective argument even though I told him I could never carry a gun. He said he refuses to as he put it be "whimpering on the floor when some gunman invades the restaurant where he is dining." He also said he will protect himself and his family and others from the gunman. He wants to be armed to have a fighting chance and not be begging for his life from some lowlife with a gun. Hard to argue with him. I don't want to be a sitting duck hiding in some bathroom praying the gunman doesn't come in.

 

 

Nobody here is defending Donald Trump though. I only know of one person on here who said they were voting for Trump he did a good enough job explaining why and has seemingly stopped discussing it. Other than that it seems like pretty much every other poster on here who has identified as a republican in the past has said they dislike Trump and wont vote for him. So why are people so quick to think that saying "Ya but look what Trump does" means anything in this discussion. Nobody is trying to say the things that Trump says arent vile but a lot of the democrats on this site try to justify things that Obama or Hillary say by saying its not as bad as Trump. We know that. I dont see people arguing over the hoards of negative Trump stuff on the board because almost everyone here agrees. So criticizing Hillary or Obama doesnt mean were saying the things they say are as bad as Trump.

Good point. There's really no reason to keep mentioning Trump on here. Pretty much everybody agrees he's an awful candidate for president. Thing is ... so is Wall Street moneybag Hillary. I can think of no worse candidate in history besides Trump because of her elitism and desire to please the 1 percenters at her own benefit. The rules don't apply to her as email scandal proves.

Edited June 15, 2016 by greg775