Rick Hahn

[ChiSox59]

Abreu did not count towards the international signing limits due to service time already incurred in Cuba, that is correct. Alexei was signed before those were implemented, but the same thing probably would have happened to him. If Viciedo had been signed for that contract after the CBA that instituted the international limits, his contract would have blown past the limits and incurred a next year penalty.

 

 

So I was right.

[GreenSox]

Three year window

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...liams/29738873/

Edited June 29, 2016 by GreenSox

[gosoxgo2005]

Three year window

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...liams/29738873/

 

So what was a three year window has rapidly became a year and a half window. We all know this team isn't doing s*** this year, so it could probably be considered a 1 year window.

 

Others may be more optimistic, but I'm assuming they will be s*** again next year. Sooo I'm gonna go ahead and consider said window closed.

 

This organization sucks

[FT35]

So what was a three year window has rapidly became a year and a half window. We all know this team isn't doing s*** this year, so it could probably be considered a 1 year window.

 

Others may be more optimistic, but I'm assuming they will be s*** again next year. Sooo I'm gonna go ahead and consider said window closed.

 

This organization sucks

 

 

If it were easy, everyone would win every year!

[GhostofDickeyKerr]

PTATC:

 

Don't know if you know this but in fact it was Kenny who talked to the mainstream media last June about the "three year window / plan." Until then nobody had heard much if anything along those lines. Green is not making something up here, Kenny did say this.

 

Mark

 

Yes.

 

I was a much bigger fan of PTATC's back in the day when he would only comment on medical issues.

[ptatc]

PTATC:

 

Don't know if you know this but in fact it was Kenny who talked to the mainstream media last June about the "three year window / plan." Until then nobody had heard much if anything along those lines. Green is not making something up here, Kenny did say this.

 

Mark

Yes he did. However, do you really think he came up with the plan for the team on his own? Do you really think he told Hahn "this is what your plan is for the next three years?"

 

I have no doubt he had a hand in it, however to continually blame him only for all of this is absurd.

Edited June 29, 2016 by ptatc

[ptatc]

Yes.

 

I was a much bigger fan of PTATC's back in the day when he would only comment on medical issues.

Wow, I had a fan?

 

I'm just trying to get people to realize it is not KW. No matter how much people want to lame one person on whom they can focus all of their ager and frustration, it just isn't true.

 

Keep your head in the sand if you want but you are focusing on much on one person.

[Quin]

Yes.

 

I was a much bigger fan of PTATC's back in the day when he would only comment on medical issues.

 

I was a much bigger fan of ghosts when they would only comment "BOOOOOoOooooooOOOOOooOooooo"

[Lip Man 1]

So what was a three year window has rapidly became a year and a half window. We all know this team isn't doing s*** this year, so it could probably be considered a 1 year window.

 

Others may be more optimistic, but I'm assuming they will be s*** again next year. Sooo I'm gonna go ahead and consider said window closed.

 

This organization sucks

 

Personally I think Kenny just talked off the cuff in an effort to deflect the criticism the organization was taking after "winning" the off season then falling flat on their faces to start 2015. I honestly don't know if there really is such a thing since the organization has been very quiet about this.

 

Mark

 

[Lip Man 1]

Wow, I had a fan?

 

I'm just trying to get people to realize it is not KW. No matter how much people want to lame one person on whom they can focus all of their ager and frustration, it just isn't true.

 

Keep your head in the sand if you want but you are focusing on much on one person.

 

Oh I agree it is a systemic organizational problem. Not just one individual, however I'm convinced Kenny still has a large say in things and we've seen what his M.O. has been for 15 years (i.e. "go for it" every year, trade minor leaguers, bring in vets generally on the downside of their careers, continually trying to make the "big splash" for some reason)

 

Mark

[Thad Bosley]

Yes he did. However, do you really think he came up with the plan for the team on his own? Do you really think he told Hahn "this is what your plan is for the next three years?"

 

I have no doubt he had a hand in it, however to continually blame him only for all of this is absurd.

You are quite correct, and it should be pretty obvious to everyone that it all starts at the top of the house with Jerry Reinsdorf. By Williams' and Hahn's own acknowledgement, they get their marching orders from him. But the major decisions affecting the baseball side of the house aren't made by Reinsdorf in a vacuum. Those decisions are all co-developed among not only the three headed monster that is Jerry/Kenny/Rick, but also with inputs from Bell, Ventura, and Cooper as well. They collectively are and have been the White Sox braintrust for a long time now, and therein lies the problem: they have proven to be really lousy at what they do!

 

For a very long time now this Sox management group has proven to be an ineffective unit at running a successful organization on the field. Unlike off the field and on the balance sheet and income statement, where the organization's finance guys seem to have things in fine working order, profit margins where they need to be and what not, the baseball minds, such as they are, have been subpar, no matter how you slice and dice it. For whatever reason, they simply cannot produce a sustainable, winnning product on the field. And how many years have they been at this as a tandem? 13, 14? It's kind of ridiculous at this point, if you think about it.

 

So yes, Ptac, the blame and/or angst should not be laid at the feet of any one individual in the Sox front office. It's been a team effort, from the top on down. That's why the calls for a total house cleaning become louder and more convincing with each passing day.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[ptatc]

You are quite correct, and it should be pretty obvious to everyone that it all starts at the top of the house with Jerry Reinsdorf. By Williams' and Hahn's own acknowledgement, they get their marching orders from him. But the major decisions affecting the baseball side of the house aren't made by Reinsdorf in a vacuum. Those decisions are all co-developed among not only the three headed monster that is Jerry/Kenny/Rick, but also with inputs from Bell, Ventura, and Cooper as well. They collectively are and have been the White Sox braintrust for a long time now, and therein lies the problem: they have proven to be really lousy at what they do!

 

For a very long time now this Sox management group has proven to be an ineffective unit at running a successful organization on the field. Unlike off the field and on the balance sheet and income statement, where the organization's finance guys seem to have things in fine working order, profit margins where they need to be and what not, the baseball minds, such as they are, have been subpar, no matter how you slice and dice it. For whatever reason, they simply cannot produce a sustainable, winnning product on the field. And how many years have they been at this as a tandem? 13, 14? It's kind of ridiculous at this point, if you think about it.

 

So yes, Ptac, the blame and/or angst should not be laid at the feet of any one individual in the Sox front office. It's been a team effort, from the top on down. That's why the calls for a total house cleaning become louder and more convincing with each passing day.

I agree. I've said all along that if the sox decide to change the front office it needs to be the whole group. They make the decisions together. There isn't a person to blame its the group.

[ptatc]

Oh I agree it is a systemic organizational problem. Not just one individual, however I'm convinced Kenny still has a large say in things and we've seen what his M.O. has been for 15 years (i.e. "go for it" every year, trade minor leaguers, bring in vets generally on the downside of their careers, continually trying to make the "big splash" for some reason)

 

Mark

I agree. Of course he has a large part, he is the highest ranking person outside of the ownership. However, to continually blame him and him alone is wrong. Even prior to becoming the official GM, Hahn and KW worked together.

[ptatc]

Personally I think Kenny just talked off the cuff in an effort to deflect the criticism the organization was taking after "winning" the off season then falling flat on their faces to start 2015. I honestly don't know if there really is such a thing since the organization has been very quiet about this.

 

Mark

Yeah, he and Ozzie are alike in that way. They are smart enough to spout out about stuff to deflect the topic. He doesnt mind being the mouth piece and lightening rod. I think that is part of the reason people focus their wrath on him instead of the quiet nerd in the corner.

[caulfield12]

Benetti?

 

Too soon for that, lol.

 

Actually, Hahn's not the "quiet nerd" type at all, at least he wasn't at Harvard Law from all the stories I've heard.

[ptatc]

Benetti?

 

Too soon for that, lol.

 

Actually, Hahn's not the "quiet nerd" type at all, at least he wasn't at Harvard Law from all the stories I've heard.

I know. It was just a slight dig at the people who blame KW and not Hahn who they don't think he really does much.

[caulfield12]

Oh, by the way, PTAC, there's an article for you to diagnose.

 

It's buried in the MLB Catch-All one page back from the end. It's about the stem cell treatment program the Angels are using as an alternative to TJ surgery. Think they're doing it with Andrew Heaney now, not sure about other pitchers because I haven't had the time to read the whole thing. Just thought you might be interested and probably didn't see it or you would have commented.

Edited June 29, 2016 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

Oh, by the way, PTAC, there's an article for you to diagnose.

 

It's buried in the MLB Catch-All one page back from the end. It's about the stem cell treatment program the Angels are using as an alternative to TJ surgery. Think they're doing it with Andrew Heaney now, not sure about other pitchers because I haven't had the time to read the whole thing. Just thought you might be interested and probably didn't see it or you would have commented.

I haven't seen it specifically for the ulnar ligament but I know they are trying it with others. It should be interesting to see how strong the ligaments bounce back.

[caulfield12]

Congrats to Rick Hahn for providing Robin Ventura one of the worst bullpens (minus the back end of Jones and Robertson) in recent Sox memory...at least back to 2007.

 

2014, if you want to go there...but nothing was expected of that team, at all.

Edited June 30, 2016 by caulfield12

[ChiSox59]

Congrats to Rick Hahn for providing Robin Ventura one of the worst bullpens (minus the back end of Jones and Robertson) in recent Sox memory...at least back to 2007.

 

2014, if you want to go there...but nothing was expected of that team, at all.

 

That's what happens when you lose 2 mainstays in the pen to injury, plus another guy who was supposed to contribute. Hard to recover from that without making trades or getting lucky.

[Quin]

That's what happens when you lose 2 mainstays in the pen to injury, plus another guy who was supposed to contribute. Hard to recover from that without making trades or getting lucky.

 

Yeah, at the beginning of the year the pen was on fire.

 

Then Petricka went down. Then Albers lost it. Then Putnam went down.

 

Kinda hard to come through that unscathed.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Yeah, at the beginning of the year the pen was on fire.

 

Then Petricka went down. Then Albers lost it. Then Putnam went down.

 

Kinda hard to come through that unscathed.

Agree with both of you. I can't crush Hahn for this. Now he has a job to do and well what he does (even though I want to see a rebuild).

[Quin]

Agree with both of you. I can't crush Hahn for this. Now he has a job to do and well what he does (even though I want to see a rebuild).

 

Ynoa hasn't been terrible. He's been by no means great, but not terrible.

 

If Burdi ends up in the BP this season, that'd be an incredibly strange way of turning the Shark trade into two BP arms that could be crucial down the stretch.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Ynoa hasn't been terrible. He's been by no means great, but not terrible.

 

If Burdi ends up in the BP this season, that'd be an incredibly strange way of turning the Shark trade into two BP arms that could be crucial down the stretch.

Ynoa has been serviceable. We win the shark trade! Just kidding

 

We'll see about Burdi. I'm sure they'll move him quickly unless he's a dumpster fire.

[fathom]

 

larry southsidesox

‏@SouthSidelarry

According to @baseballpro, which does the best job of calculating catcher value, the difference btw Navarro & Flowers this season is 3 wins.