southsider2k5 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) Core Chris Sale - pre arb Jose Quintana - pre arb Addison Reed - pre arb Veterans worth their contract and worth something via trade Jake Peavy Alexei Ramirez Prospects in the top ~200 range Erik Johnson Courtney Hawkins Carlos Sanchez Dayan Viciedo was on quite a few All-Rookie team lists and was a productive player in 2012. I also guess that Trayce Thompson, Marcus Semien, Josh Phegley, Chris Bassitt, Micah Johnson, etc., weren't in the organization at the time. Hector Santiago has mysteriously disappeared as an asset to go along with Addison Reed. Tyler Flowers statistically is better than our current catching combo when defense is factored in, and for a cheaper price. Pitch framing/pitch calling strategies have slipped with Navarro, not to mention throwing out opposing baserunners. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- White Sox roster now Core Chris Sale - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Jose Quintana - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Jose Abreu underperforming his career WAR from 2014/15 by 125-150 points, should be DH, in ideal world Adam Eaton - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Carlos Rodon is there a single poster here who would have picked anyone else with the 3rd pick? and still not close to All-Star status, work in progress Tim Anderson would feel a lot better if Hahn had anything to do with targeting him Avisail Garcia Matt Davidson Nate Jones Veterans worth their contract and worth something in a trade Todd Frazier (I would hope he's STILL worth the equivalent of Thompson/Montas +) Brett Lawrie Melky Cabrera James Shields (SURE!!! Get on the phone right now and see if someone will assume that $27 million) Prospects in the top ~200 range Zack Collins Carson Fulmer Spencer Adams (has gone from near the Top 100 to closer to 150-200) Zack Burdi Alec Hansen at some point, results/ability is trumped by performance....in 2012, this was the equivalent of Chris Beck Trey Michalczewski (really?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) Ok, I don't do this often. DA and Caulfield, I recommend you guys both download League of Legends and fight 1 v 1. It would be like a Tyson fight. I would win in 5 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) Ok, I don't do this often. DA and Caulfield, I recommend you guys both download League of Legends and fight 1 v 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) Core Chris Sale - pre arb Jose Quintana - pre arb Addison Reed - pre arb Veterans worth their contract and worth something via trade Jake Peavy Alexei Ramirez Prospects in the top ~200 range Erik Johnson Courtney Hawkins Carlos Sanchez Dayan Viciedo was on quite a few All-Rookie team lists and was a productive player in 2012. I also guess that Trayce Thompson, Marcus Semien, Josh Phegley, Chris Bassitt, Micah Johnson, etc., weren't in the organization at the time. Hector Santiago has mysteriously disappeared as an asset to go along with Addison Reed. Tyler Flowers statistically is better than our current catching combo when defense is factored in, and for a cheaper price. Pitch framing/pitch calling strategies have slipped with Navarro, not to mention throwing out opposing baserunners. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- White Sox roster now Core Chris Sale - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Jose Quintana - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Jose Abreu underperforming his career WAR from 2014/15 by 125-150 points, should be DH, in ideal world Adam Eaton - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Carlos Rodon is there a single poster here who would have picked anyone else with the 3rd pick? and still not close to All-Star status, work in progress Tim Anderson would feel a lot better if Hahn had anything to do with targeting him Avisail Garcia Matt Davidson Nate Jones Veterans worth their contract and worth something in a trade Todd Frazier (I would hope he's STILL worth the equivalent of Thompson/Montas +) Brett Lawrie Melky Cabrera James Shields (SURE!!! Get on the phone right now and see if someone will assume that $27 million) Prospects in the top ~200 range Zack Collins Carson Fulmer Spencer Adams (has gone from near the Top 100 to closer to 150-200) Zack Burdi Alec Hansen at some point, results/ability is trumped by performance....in 2012, this was the equivalent of Chris Beck Trey Michalczewski (really?) I can't believe I glossed over the part where you said Abreu was underperforming his previous WAR by 125-150 points, lmao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 03:14 PM) It would be like a Tyson fight. I would win in 5 seconds. Dude, it takes like 15 seconds to even get to the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 02:16 PM) Dude, it takes like 15 seconds to even get to the person. Then 20 seconds and that battle is OVA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) White Sox roster when he took over in 2013: Core Chris Sale - pre arb Jose Quintana - pre arb Addison Reed - pre arb Veterans worth their contract and worth something via trade Jake Peavy Alexei Ramirez Prospects in the top ~200 range Erik Johnson Courtney Hawkins Carlos Sanchez --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Players you omitted: Inherited: Tim Anderson Marcus Semien Trayce Thompson Micah Johnson Josh Phegley Several other prospects that Hahn dispatched De Aza (still playing; no value received) Rios (Playoff and WS winning team; L Garcia received) Edited July 5, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Hahn drafted Tim Anderson his first year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 04:34 PM) Players you omitted: Inherited: Tim Anderson Marcus Semien Trayce Thompson Micah Johnson De Aza (still playing; no value received) Rios (Playoff and WS winning team; L Garcia received) - Anderson wasn't drafted yet. - Semien was the Sox 16th overall prospect. - Trayce was looking more bust than anything. - Micah hadn't broken out until that season. - De Aza had no value. - You are the biggest Rios hero worshiper in existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) White Sox roster now Core Chris Sale - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal - Inherited Jose Quintana - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal - Inherited Jose Abreu - Strong addition Adam Eaton - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal - Strong addition Carlos Rodon - Hahn got the benefit of drafting #3; anyone would have picked him Tim Anderson -My mistake - Strong pick Nate Jones - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal - Inherited Veterans worth their contract and worth something in a trade Todd Frazier - Strong Addition; but At the cost of Thomposon et al Brett Lawrie - Not much trade value actually; but an acceptable player Melky Cabrera - Good this year; terrible last year. FA signing. James Shields - highly questionable if he's worth his contract; he has 2.5 years to go to prove that. Right now, he's pitching about at his contract level. David Robertson - Good signing Prospects in the top ~200 range Zack Collins Carson Fulmer - Hope he works out; Hahn could have taken the top college bat but passed. Spencer Adams Zack Burdi Alec Hansen Trey Michalczewski Hahn had 3 drafts in the top 10; of course he's going to add talent. But is this anything special? Maybe it is. And then the opportunity cost of Keppinger, Beckham, Bonifacio, Turner and Laroche. What could have been done with those dollars? The weakest part of Hahn's arsenal are his trades for veterans and low-rent signings. Edited July 5, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 03:34 PM) Players you omitted: Inherited: Tim Anderson Marcus Semien Trayce Thompson Micah Johnson Josh Phegley Several other prospects that Hahn dispatched De Aza (still playing; no value received) Rios (Playoff and WS winning team; L Garcia received) With all the ridiculous things you post all the time, the most hilarious thing is your continual defense of Rios. It also completely goes against your entire philosophy, it's a complete mystery. Being on a team that won the World Series doesn't mean that player was any good. And the fact that De Aza (-1.1 WAR this year) is still playing isn't an actual argument for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 04:08 PM) With all the ridiculous things you post all the time, the most hilarious thing is your continual defense of Rios. It also completely goes against your entire philosophy, it's a complete mystery. Being on a team that won the World Series doesn't mean that player was any good. And the fact that De Aza (-1.1 WAR this year) is still playing isn't an actual argument for anything. IIRC De Aza was awful is why we didn't get anything. Rios had a bloated contract and is why we got him from Toronto for nothing. Basically what we did too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 02:39 PM) Hahn had 3 drafts in the top 10; of course he's going to add talent. But is this anything special? Maybe it is. And then the opportunity cost of Keppinger, Beckham, Bonifacio, Turner and Laroche. What could have been done with those dollars? The weakest part of Hahn's arsenal are his trades for veterans and low-rent signings. Don't forget Downs and Paulino, lol... Latos and Rollins at least contributed to some win shares, especially Latos' first four starts and eating innings in the string of mediocre ones he had afterwards. Of course, if you take Danks' money, Shields' money...and look at their combined results this year as the 4th/5th starter (not sure where you fit Latos, Gonzalez and Johnson in), that's over $20 million for below replacement level pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 01:14 PM) Faker on my team would rip him apart before he even had the nerve synapse firing to think of a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 04:08 PM) With all the ridiculous things you post all the time, the most hilarious thing is your continual defense of Rios. It also completely goes against your entire philosophy, it's a complete mystery. Being on a team that won the World Series doesn't mean that player was any good. And the fact that De Aza (-1.1 WAR this year) is still playing isn't an actual argument for anything. While De Aza had a bad year his last year, he produced for the Sox the prior 2 years; and somehow he made it on a world series team. I omitted another Hahn giveaway - Thornton. Of course I would never trade for Rios. But he had a .749 OPS, after years of .850 and .756 and had the all-important credential of being "proven." Shall I list the names of players with similar stats that this board has pined for, oogled over? And when I have suggested offering L Garcia for said players, I get scoffed at, as if it's an insult to such high talent. Yes he had a bad contract...so do certain other parties.... Money over prospects. And, indeed, Caufield, I omitted several "million here, a million there" Hahn signings like Paulino et al. What could you do with that money...oh, maybe pay a few big international bonuses..... Edited July 5, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIZ-SOX Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 01:53 PM) Core Chris Sale - pre arb Jose Quintana - pre arb Addison Reed - pre arb Veterans worth their contract and worth something via trade Jake Peavy Alexei Ramirez Prospects in the top ~200 range Erik Johnson Courtney Hawkins Carlos Sanchez Dayan Viciedo was on quite a few All-Rookie team lists and was a productive player in 2012. I also guess that Trayce Thompson, Marcus Semien, Josh Phegley, Chris Bassitt, Micah Johnson, etc., weren't in the organization at the time. Hector Santiago has mysteriously disappeared as an asset to go along with Addison Reed. Tyler Flowers statistically is better than our current catching combo when defense is factored in, and for a cheaper price. Pitch framing/pitch calling strategies have slipped with Navarro, not to mention throwing out opposing baserunners. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- White Sox roster now Core Chris Sale - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Jose Quintana - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Jose Abreu underperforming his career WAR from 2014/15 by 125-150 points, should be DH, in ideal world Adam Eaton - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Carlos Rodon is there a single poster here who would have picked anyone else with the 3rd pick? and still not close to All-Star status, work in progress Tim Anderson would feel a lot better if Hahn had anything to do with targeting him Avisail Garcia Matt Davidson Nate Jones Veterans worth their contract and worth something in a trade Todd Frazier (I would hope he's STILL worth the equivalent of Thompson/Montas +) Brett Lawrie Melky Cabrera James Shields (SURE!!! Get on the phone right now and see if someone will assume that $27 million) Prospects in the top ~200 range Zack Collins Carson Fulmer Spencer Adams (has gone from near the Top 100 to closer to 150-200) Zack Burdi Alec Hansen at some point, results/ability is trumped by performance....in 2012, this was the equivalent of Chris Beck Trey Michalczewski (really?) You are absolutely insufferable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (MIZ-SOX @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 04:27 PM) You are absolutely insufferable. The notion that Hahn is somehow a good GM because of that list is equally insufferable. You can take any GM or manager and roll out their greatest hits, ignore the rest of their body of work, remove context and make it look better than it appears to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 05:11 PM) Don't forget Downs and Paulino, lol... Latos and Rollins at least contributed to some win shares, especially Latos' first four starts and eating innings in the string of mediocre ones he had afterwards. Of course, if you take Danks' money, Shields' money...and look at their combined results this year as the 4th/5th starter (not sure where you fit Latos, Gonzalez and Johnson in), that's over $20 million for below replacement level pitching. They need to be back in the business of signing guys like Paulino. Too much logic in this one-- Caulfield12 in the Sox sign Felipe Paulino thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIZ-SOX Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 05:31 PM) The notion that Hahn is somehow a good GM because of that list is equally insufferable. You can take any GM or manager and roll out their greatest hits, ignore the rest of their body of work, remove context and make it look better than it appears to be. You should let Hahn borrow your crystal ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 04:36 PM) They need to be back in the business of signing guys like Paulino. Too much logic in this one-- Caulfield12 in the Sox sign Felipe Paulino thread. Yes, and I can pull 2-3 mods' comments that were VERY VERY GLOWING. That said, you have to be RIGHT occasionally (let's say, 25% of the time) when you go dumpster diving. Otherwise, it simply becomes a matter of wasting resources. And that was at a time when Hahn "appeared" to be committed to the idea of rebuilding...which quickly got thrown out the window. Remember, we were all pitched that idea by the front office that guys like Downs, Paulino and Belisario could be flipped at the deadline for young prospects when they performed well...? The other was the former Cardinals' closer, and maybe Miguel Cleto. Edited July 5, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (MIZ-SOX @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 04:38 PM) You should let Hahn borrow your crystal ball. So, in your opinion, Rick Hahn is worthy of a 3 year contract extension? And you would also commit to him rebuilding the team in 2017-2018 if they don't make the playoffs in 2016 and 2017? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 05:40 PM) Yes, and I can pull 2-3 mods' comments that were VERY VERY GLOWING. That said, you have to be RIGHT occasionally (let's say, 25% of the time) when you go dumpster diving. Otherwise, it simply becomes a matter of wasting resources. And that was at a time when Hahn "appeared" to be committed to the idea of rebuilding...which quickly got thrown out the window. Remember, we were all pitched that idea by the front office that guys like Downs, Paulino and Belisario could be flipped at the deadline for young prospects when they performed well...? The other was the former Cardinals' closer, and maybe Miguel Cleto. The difference is the mods aren't panning the move years later in a desperate attempt to try to look like they have any clue about baseball. I,suppose he could have been more like,Dayton Moore and spent money on Omar Infante. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) you are posting like 4 posts for every 1 other member posts, and honestly your points are so scatterbrained and contradicting from one post to the next(and sometimes within the same post)that nobody can help but notice how overwhelming your presence is. And I agree with Dick(dont tell him), the Sox start winning again and all you want to do is tell everyone that they suck pretty much every chance you get. You need to re f***ing lax Dear Mr. Keymaster: Just for your information, it's summer vacation time for teachers. Thanks for your concern/s about my posting habits. If you have any good book recommendations, would love to hear them. I've seen every possible movie so far, caught up with Game of Thrones and Silicon Valley and am waiting to buy books back in the U.S. At any rate, I will be traveling to (and throughout) the US for three weeks starting on July 16th so please don't encourage Dick Allen to feel too encouraged or he'll start writing taunting posts even when I won't be there to respond, then claiming some type of Pyrrhic victory...whether the Sox are playing well or not. Maybe if he's lucky, all of Central China will be washed away first and he won't have to hear from me again, and he can go back to debating with Thad Bosley & Co. Thanks in advance for your time and consideration, The Caulfield12 PS: Hope there are more comics-related movies coming out soon for you to dissect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 04:46 PM) The difference is the mods aren't panning the move years later in a desperate attempt to try to look like they have any clue about baseball. I,suppose he could have been more like,Dayton Moore and spent money on Omar Infante. SEE BELOW/ABOVE... If I was computer expert, there would be an accompanying series of arrows pointing down/up. But yeah, I'm sure he's quite ashamed of getting to the World Series twice in a row and coming one hit away from two in a row...despite the fact that KC is the smallest media market in the NFL/NBA/MLB. What an idiot, because he missed on Alex Rios and Omar Infante. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 05:56 PM) SEE BELOW/ABOVE... If I was computer expert, there would be an accompanying series of arrows pointing down/up. But yeah, I'm sure he's quite ashamed of getting to the World Series twice in a row and coming one hit away from two in a row...despite the fact that KC is the smallest media market in the NFL/NBA/MLB. What an idiot, because he missed on Alex Rios and Omar Infante. But all those resources he spent on Infante and Rios. They could have extended their run. Wasted opportunity. It is going to cost him core pieces to pay guys that contributed nothing. That is what makes small windows.that's why KC is going to suck again real soon. And he spent $70 million on Ian Kennedy when Junoir Guerra was out there for a minor league contract. They need a new GM and if he drafted Chris Sale instead of Christain Colon, he could have kept Finnegan and his 4.71 ERA because he never would have needed Cueto. Could you imagine Sale and Finnegan and Guerra in that rotation? Dynasty. Edited July 5, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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