Rick Hahn

[Y2Jimmy0]

The affirmative decision to rush up Rodon and his stunted development as a #4 is another feather in Hahn's cap ( Cooper's as well). Cooper's continued status as whitesox deity another issue as well.

 

 

You really need to stop with this. You either have Rodon under these circumstances or you probably have Aaron Nola instead. Him coming quickly was part of his agreeing to sign for $6.8 million. I've been over this before though.

[Kyyle23]

You really need to stop with this. You either have Rodon under these circumstances or you probably have Aaron Nola instead. Him coming quickly was part of his agreeing to sign for $6.8 million. I've been over this before though.

 

Not to mention that what he is learning at the major league level is great for his development.

 

But hey, ax to grind. Gotta throw in the dumb deity comments

[southsider2k5]

You really need to stop with this. You either have Rodon under these circumstances or you probably have Aaron Nola instead. Him coming quickly was part of his agreeing to sign for $6.8 million. I've been over this before though.

 

Thank for this dose of reality. Now back to your regularly scheduled irrational rant.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

You should tweet this at write sox again

What did he tweet?

[Kyyle23]

What did he tweet?

 

All you have to do is look, you can find it

[Quin]

The affirmative decision to rush up Rodon and his stunted development as a #4 is another feather in Hahn's cap ( Cooper's as well). Cooper's continued status as whitesox deity another issue as well.

 

lol

[GreenSox]

Not to mention that what he is learning at the major league level is great for his development.

 

But hey, ax to grind. Gotta throw in the dumb deity comments

How's that development coming, all while the control clock is ticking?

And if Hahn was going to let Boras make personnel decisions, then pick someone else.

 

Tell us, what has Cooper accomplished in the last several years?

 

Honestly, listening to yall one would think that Hahn, Cooper and Williams have actually been winning.

[southsider2k5]

How's that development coming, all while the control clock is ticking?

And if Hahn was going to let Boras make personnel decisions, then pick someone else.

 

Tell us, what has Cooper accomplished in the last several years?

 

Honestly, listening to yall one would think that Hahn, Cooper and Williams have actually been winning.

 

So you are saying you would have passed on Rodon because of the contract demands? Interesting.

[bigruss]

We are 2 games over .500 right now so yes, we are winning at this time.

[Thad Bosley]

C'mon, use some common sense…. If a guy has 10 AB's and gets 10 hits… he's batting 1.000.. if he then goes 20 AB's and gets 0 hits… even though he has exhibited terrible batsmanship during the last stretch of performance.. he's batting .300.. which normally is pretty good.. except it doesn't reflect the fact the current state of his performance, as it stands.... is a 000 average… pretty bad…

 

On larger scale, lets' look at this example.. Kenny Williams was the GM when the Sox won the World Series in 05, but in the meantime.. one playoff appearance over going on 11 yrs, despite the fact that the playoffs have been expanded… understood, he hasn't been the GM over this entire stretch, but HE"S THE GM"S SUPERIOR

 

Now, the apologists, as yourself.. stand fast in their believe that KW and the organization gets a break, and all the benefit of the doubt…

 

And the only thing the whiny Sox fans want to do is focus on lackluster showing by the franchise over the past decade, instead of focusing on 2005

 

Thankfully you're just some dude spouting an opinion on an internet board, cause if you were the GM you'd have Estaban Loaiza signed cause he was 21-9 in 2003… because, hey, we should focus on the state and performance of a player.. when they looked good...

So just so you know, when you dare to look back in time and point out the history of futility of the ballclub, be it either short term futility (last five years, eleven years) or long term futility (35 years), condemnation will be reigned upon you by SS2K5 fast and furious. He doesn't like that to be mentioned, and he will call you "bitter" for doing so. He just doesn't find it appropriate on a White Sox message board to express disappointment in the club's performance when it's been subpar. 'Sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows everywhere' is the only thing he has an appetite for. So just be careful is all I'm saying. I've been down this path before and have the battle scars to prove it!!

 

[Kyyle23]

How's that development coming, all while the control clock is ticking?

And if Hahn was going to let Boras make personnel decisions, then pick someone else.

 

Tell us, what has Cooper accomplished in the last several years?

 

Honestly, listening to yall one would think that Hahn, Cooper and Williams have actually been winning.

 

Honestly, anyone listening to you would have a terrible team on the field and would trade away any and all players before they turn 25. Except Saladino

 

Rodons development is fine, he shows flashes of dominance and then falls back to some bad habits. I'm disappointed he hasn't taken the same step we saw in his first year where he straight up dominated down the stretch, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you because that doesn't fit your narrative that he hasn't progressed at all.

 

Cooper hasn't been getting the most out of his pitchers the past couple years, I won't argue that, but your assertion that he is pretty much worthless is tiring and incorrect. You say the same damn thing all the time, we get it. You don't like Cooper and Hahn.

[southsider2k5]

Honestly, anyone listening to you would have a terrible team on the field and would trade away any and all players before they turn 25. Except Saladino

 

Rodons development is fine, he shows flashes of dominance and then falls back to some bad habits. I'm disappointed he hasn't taken the same step we saw in his first year where he straight up dominated down the stretch, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you because that doesn't fit your narrative that he hasn't progressed at all.

 

Cooper hasn't been getting the most out of his pitchers the past couple years, I won't argue that, but your assertion that he is pretty much worthless is tiring and incorrect. You say the same damn thing all the time, we get it. You don't like Cooper and Hahn.

 

Except for Alex Rios.

[southsider2k5]

Thank for this dose of reality. Now back to your regularly scheduled irrational rant.

 

 

So just so you know, when you dare to look back in time and point out the history of futility of the ballclub, be it either short term futility (last five years, eleven years) or long term futility (35 years), condemnation will be reigned upon you by SS2K5 fast and furious. He doesn't like that to be mentioned, and he will call you "bitter" for doing so. He just doesn't find it appropriate on a White Sox message board to express disappointment in the club's performance when it's been subpar. 'Sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows everywhere' is the only thing he has an appetite for. So just be careful is all I'm saying. I've been down this path before and have the battle scars to prove it!!

 

 

And there it is, right on time.

[GreenSox]

So you are saying you would have passed on Rodon because of the contract demands? Interesting.

If it demanded him playing before he's ready, sure. The idea of Rodon is 5/6 years of a top end guy. Well now it's down to 5, and falling.

 

[captain54]

Actually yes, please, let's start using some common sense. You do realize that a .333 batting average is NOT made up up a guy who gets a hit every three AB's, right? There are good stretches and bad stretches built in to get to whatever average the player is at. Instead of focusing on something that happened in one game, or only the part of the season you somehow feel is relevant, you can focus on the whole picture, or you can focus on what is actually happening now. Or you can bury your head in the sand and tell yourself that only the worst case scenario matters and that one game you went to was way more important than the sum of the other 83 games you didn't go go.

 

But hey, don't let me stop you from changing the subject to find a one off example from 13 years ago instead of everything else.

 

What you are saying is true, but you're still tap-dancing around the fact that stats don't tell the whole story when judging performance…

 

Specifically , the Sox bullpen.. Look at Albers. you might look at his numbers and say, hmm not too bad.. but those numbers are skewed by a short burst of good performance.. currently, the guy can barely get anyone out.. So it's not a matter of burying one's head in the sand, it's a matter of realistically looking at performance…and my judgement of the bullpen isn't based on one game I attended.. it's based on shaky performance going all the way back to early May

 

You can blame injuries.. that's fine.. that's a valid point.. I will contend though, that the injuries really exposed the lack of depth inherent in the organization..

 

Bottom line...it's really the classic glass half full/half empty..

 

But hey, I get the narrative.. fans that criticize the organization are irrational and rant mindlessly, don't have all the information, but yet act like they have all the answers .. miserable whiners who find any reason to complain… love when the team loses so they can flaunt it in the face of the optimists…

 

I can see where it might be cooler to be staunch pro - Sox organization.. It gives the illusion that those of your ilk may have some inside info that we, unwashed masses aren't privy to.. It gives the illusion that you are a better fan, stick with the team thru thick and thin…

 

The crappy Chris Rongey type of attitude, is certainly your right to adhere to… the fatal flaw is, those of your ilk have decided to jump all over anyone with a critical point of view and paint them with broad strokes as a bunch of lunatics...

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

What you are saying is true, but you're still tap-dancing around the fact that stats don't tell the whole story when judging performance…

 

Specifically , the Sox bullpen.. Look at Albers. you might look at his numbers and say, hmm not too bad.. but those numbers are skewed by a short burst of good performance.. currently, the guy can barely get anyone out.. So it's not a matter of burying one's head in the sand, it's a matter of realistically looking at performance…and my judgement of the bullpen isn't based on one game I attended.. it's based on shaky performance going all the way back to early May

 

You can blame injuries.. that's fine.. that's a valid point.. I will contend though, that the injuries really exposed the lack of depth inherent in the organization..

 

Bottom line...it's really the classic glass half full/half empty..

 

But hey, I get the narrative.. fans that criticize the organization are irrational and rant mindlessly, don't have all the information, but yet act like they have all the answers .. miserable whiners who find any reason to complain… love when the team loses so they can flaunt it in the face of the optimists…

 

I can see where it might be cooler to be staunch pro - Sox organization.. It gives the illusion that those of your ilk may have some inside info that we, unwashed masses aren't privy to.. It gives the illusion that you are a better fan, stick with the team thru thick and thin…

 

The crappy Chris Rongey type of attitude, is certainly your right to adhere to… the fatal flaw is, those of your ilk have decided to jump all over anyone with a critical point of view and paint them with broad strokes as a bunch of lunatics...

 

No, I think you missed my point. Fans that criticize irrationally are irrational. It really is that straight forward. When you purposefully chose to ignore anything good, in favor of everything bad, and even get to the point of pointing to a single game just because you were at it as being more important evidence than everything else... yes I would call that irrational.

 

Of course in this case you point at Albers. Why? Because he has been awful, which fits your rant. But the rest of the pen which is pitching to expectations, or above them right now? Crickets. Not Duke, not Robertson, not Jones, not Jennings... But Albers. Apparently hyperfocusing on one middle reliever over the whole package is looking "realistically" at a bullpen? Um, OK. Sure, you go with that.

 

[captain54]

No, I think you missed my point. Fans that criticize irrationally are irrational. It really is that straight forward. When you purposefully chose to ignore anything good, in favor of everything bad, and even get to the point of pointing to a single game just because you were at it as being more important evidence than everything else... yes I would call that irrational.

 

Of course in this case you point at Albers. Why? Because he has been awful, which fits your rant. But the rest of the pen which is pitching to expectations, or above them right now? Crickets. Not Duke, not Robertson, not Jones, not Jennings... But Albers. Apparently hyperfocusing on one middle reliever over the whole package is looking "realistically" at a bullpen? Um, OK. Sure, you go with that.

 

For the record, I used Albers as a microcosm of the entire staff.. and again, I repeat, to illustrate that stats don't tell the whole story... not to cherry pick…and if you were being perfectly fair and honest, you could say that the BP blowing an 8 run lead in the ninth would not be a total shocker, given the performance of the pen the last couple of months of 2016...

 

You could say that it's irrational to purposely ignore a track record of failure and only point to the favorable..would that fit into your grand scheme of logic as well?

Edited July 6, 2016 by captain54

[GreenSox]

Honestly, anyone listening to you would have a terrible team on the field and would trade away any and all players before they turn 25. Except Saladino

Incorrect. I wouldn't trade for old guys until a young core is built. I never said my team would win right now. It wouldn't. How's Rick's team doing in that regard, when he's trying to win?

Rodons development is fine, he shows flashes of dominance and then falls back to some bad habits. I'm disappointed he hasn't taken the same step we saw in his first year where he straight up dominated down the stretch, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you because that doesn't fit your narrative that he hasn't progressed at all.

My point is that he's developing while service time is ticking.

Cooper hasn't been getting the most out of his pitchers the past couple years, I won't argue that, but your assertion that he is pretty much worthless is tiring and incorrect. You say the same damn thing all the time, we get it. You don't like Cooper and Hahn.

I was and am very complimentary of Hahn's work prior to the winter of 2014. He doubled the core in less than a year. For some reason, he started trading for rents, players at or past their peak, free agents, spending a million here, a million there on utility infielders and AAAA pitchers, before a core was built. And those trades weren't nearly as savvy as his early trades, respecting that some early trades didn't work out.

 

At this point, I hope that Morneau works out and that Hahn successfully rushes Fulmer or Burdi into the pen. Because he's not going to sit still with this team.

Edited July 6, 2016 by GreenSox

[Kyyle23]

Incorrect. I wouldn't trade for old guys until a young core is built. I never said my team would win right now. It wouldn't. How's Rick's team doing in that regard, when he's trying to win?

 

My point is that he's developing while service time is ticking.

 

I was and am very complimentary of Hahn's work prior to the winter of 2014. He doubled the core in less than a year. For some reason, he started trading for rents, players at or past their peak, free agents, spending a million here, a million there on utility infielders and AAAA pitchers, before a core was built. And those trades weren't nearly as savvy as his early trades, respecting that some early trades didn't work out.

 

At this point, I hope that Morneau works out and that Hahn successfully rushes Fulmer or Burdi into the pen. Because he's not going to sit still with this team.

 

If Rodon has proven that he can compete and produce at the major league level, which he has, then he isn't rushing anything. You are under the mistaken impression that he will work and iron out every deficiency he has in the minor leagues and come up a finished and elite prospect and provide 5 years of 20 win seasons.

[southsider2k5]

For the record, I used Albers as a microcosm of the entire staff.. and again, I repeat, to illustrate that stats don't tell the whole story... not to cherry pick…and if you were being perfectly fair and honest, you could say that the BP blowing an 8 run lead in the ninth would not be a total shocker, given the performance of the pen the last couple of months of 2016...

 

You could say that it's irrational to purposely ignore a track record of failure and only point to the favorable..would that fit into your grand scheme of logic as well?

 

But Albers isn't a microcosm of the entire staff. He is one man, and about the 4th/5th man out of the bullpen at that. Focusing on one guy who has been awful, while ignoring all of the primary guys out of the pen who have been very good sure doesn't tell the whole story either. They have also been good recently. Pretty much every guy, including the recent call ups, are at or better than what you would expect for them For example the numbers show over the last 30 days....

 

Jennings 0.84 era

Jones 1.65

Putnam 2.08

Duke 2.16

Robertson 3.38

Beck 4.05

Ynoa 4.91

Albers 8.53

 

Yet, who is being focused on as "microcosm of the entire staff" when it comes to the bullpen? Matt Albers.

 

[ptatc]

What you are saying is true, but you're still tap-dancing around the fact that stats don't tell the whole story when judging performance…

 

Specifically , the Sox bullpen.. Look at Albers. you might look at his numbers and say, hmm not too bad.. but those numbers are skewed by a short burst of good performance.. currently, the guy can barely get anyone out.. So it's not a matter of burying one's head in the sand, it's a matter of realistically looking at performance…and my judgement of the bullpen isn't based on one game I attended.. it's based on shaky performance going all the way back to early May

 

You can blame injuries.. that's fine.. that's a valid point.. I will contend though, that the injuries really exposed the lack of depth inherent in the organization..

 

Bottom line...it's really the classic glass half full/half empty..

 

But hey, I get the narrative.. fans that criticize the organization are irrational and rant mindlessly, don't have all the information, but yet act like they have all the answers .. miserable whiners who find any reason to complain… love when the team loses so they can flaunt it in the face of the optimists…

 

I can see where it might be cooler to be staunch pro - Sox organization.. It gives the illusion that those of your ilk may have some inside info that we, unwashed masses aren't privy to.. It gives the illusion that you are a better fan, stick with the team thru thick and thin…

 

The crappy Chris Rongey type of attitude, is certainly your right to adhere to… the fatal flaw is, those of your ilk have decided to jump all over anyone with a critical point of view and paint them with broad strokes as a bunch of lunatics...

Or are they skewed by the burst of difficulty and he will bounce back.

 

The point is that you cannot judge the team solely on the middle group of games when they were performing poorly. They did play quite well early and have played pretty well as of late. All players and teams will have hills and valleys throughout the season. You need to look at the performance as a whole. They weren't as good as the first 33 and weren't as bad as the next 23. Probably more like the last few games, somewhere in the middle of winning a few series in a row then losing some.

[OmarComing25]

What you are saying is true, but you're still tap-dancing around the fact that stats don't tell the whole story when judging performance…

 

Specifically , the Sox bullpen.. Look at Albers. you might look at his numbers and say, hmm not too bad.. but those numbers are skewed by a short burst of good performance.. currently, the guy can barely get anyone out.. So it's not a matter of burying one's head in the sand, it's a matter of realistically looking at performance…and my judgement of the bullpen isn't based on one game I attended.. it's based on shaky performance going all the way back to early May

 

You can blame injuries.. that's fine.. that's a valid point.. I will contend though, that the injuries really exposed the lack of depth inherent in the organization..

 

Bottom line...it's really the classic glass half full/half empty..

 

But hey, I get the narrative.. fans that criticize the organization are irrational and rant mindlessly, don't have all the information, but yet act like they have all the answers .. miserable whiners who find any reason to complain… love when the team loses so they can flaunt it in the face of the optimists…

 

I can see where it might be cooler to be staunch pro - Sox organization.. It gives the illusion that those of your ilk may have some inside info that we, unwashed masses aren't privy to.. It gives the illusion that you are a better fan, stick with the team thru thick and thin…

 

The crappy Chris Rongey type of attitude, is certainly your right to adhere to… the fatal flaw is, those of your ilk have decided to jump all over anyone with a critical point of view and paint them with broad strokes as a bunch of lunatics...

The bottom line is that you're accusing others of cherry picking when you're doing the exact same thing.

 

You're also painting a pretty broad brush. Pretty much everything you're criticizing other posters for you're guilty of yourself.

Edited July 6, 2016 by OmarComing25

[Thad Bosley]

No, I think you missed my point. Fans that criticize irrationally are irrational. It really is that straight forward. When you purposefully chose to ignore anything good, in favor of everything bad, and even get to the point of pointing to a single game just because you were at it as being more important evidence than everything else... yes I would call that irrational.

 

Of course in this case you point at Albers. Why? Because he has been awful, which fits your rant. But the rest of the pen which is pitching to expectations, or above them right now? Crickets. Not Duke, not Robertson, not Jones, not Jennings... But Albers. Apparently hyperfocusing on one middle reliever over the whole package is looking "realistically" at a bullpen? Um, OK. Sure, you go with that.

So at those moments when you yourself "criticize irrationally", which you do from time to time, you would self-assess yourself as "irrational"? I mean, I would presume you are not exempting yourself from this statement.

[captain54]

But Albers isn't a microcosm of the entire staff. He is one man, and about the 4th/5th man out of the bullpen at that. Focusing on one guy who has been awful, while ignoring all of the primary guys out of the pen who have been very good sure doesn't tell the whole story either. They have also been good recently. Pretty much every guy, including the recent call ups, are at or better than what you would expect for them For example the numbers show over the last 30 days....

 

Jennings 0.84 era

Jones 1.65

Putnam 2.08

Duke 2.16

Robertson 3.38

Beck 4.05

Ynoa 4.91

Albers 8.53

 

Yet, who is being focused on as "microcosm of the entire staff" when it comes to the bullpen? Matt Albers.

 

You list Jennings as having the lowest ERA among the relievers in the last 30 days.. funny, that was the guy that got booed at the Minn game I was at, and was the main culprit in almost coughing up a nine run lead…. I guess the fans should have consulted their stat sheet before they commenced to booing..

 

We could go back and forth with this all day, boss…. Go ahead and trot out your ERA stats. I'll assume it was just an honest mistake on your part to not include the Sox pen…having the worst BB % per 9 in the AL. by far.. also, just a fraction of a percentage from having the worst WHIP in the AL….

 

 

 

 

[ptatc]

So at those moments when you yourself "criticize irrationally", which you do from time to time, you would self-assess yourself as "irrational"? I mean, I would presume you are not exempting yourself from this statement.

I think everyone does from time to time. Some people just do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.