Rick Hahn

[Kyyle23]

Wrong. I did not like the Bonafacio signing from day one. Why are we talking about it? Because I mentioned that he was DFA'd this week.

 

This is your one and only post in the thread where he is signed

 

Who gets lopped off the roster?

 

 

not seeing much about what you are saying now. But hey, go ahead and pound your chest

[Dick Allen]

Of course, the Peavy deal (contract extension) was not exactly met with universal praise, either. Seemed a bit ill-advised, like the club didn't have a clear direction. Same thing with the time when they extended Danks and turned around and traded their closer for scraps simultaneously.

 

Still amazed that we got anything out of Peavy.

Oh really? Here is what you had to post in the Peavy extension thread.

 

Good news, not quite great, because you wonder about all the wear and tear that Robin and Cooper put him through, sometimes needlessly.

 

On the other hand, it does afford us the luxury of packaging some guys like Quintana/Santiago (one of the two, probably), Thornton, Crain, Reed (possibly) to see what we can get back for 3B and possibly catcher.

 

The biggest question marks are:

 

1) Does DeAza go back to CF? 90% chance, unless another starter is traded, like Rios, for a new CFer.

2) Who's the closer? 90% chance it's Reed, at least to start out.

3) AJ, Tyler or a new catcher not on the radar screen?

4) 3B

[caulfield12]

Oh really? Here is what you had to post in the Peavy extension thread.

 

Good news, not quite great, because you wonder about all the wear and tear that Robin and Cooper put him through, sometimes needlessly.

 

On the other hand, it does afford us the luxury of packaging some guys like Quintana/Santiago (one of the two, probably), Thornton, Crain, Reed (possibly) to see what we can get back for 3B and possibly catcher.

 

The biggest question marks are:

 

1) Does DeAza go back to CF? 90% chance, unless another starter is traded, like Rios, for a new CFer.

2) Who's the closer? 90% chance it's Reed, at least to start out.

3) AJ, Tyler or a new catcher not on the radar screen?

4) 3B

 

 

And we did end up packaging/trading Santiago, just not for a 3B....it was for Eaton.

 

They did trade Addison Reed for a 3B (just not a good one).

 

I don't think I gave it either praise or derision, it was more of a neutral statement...and Avi Garcia as the centerpiece wasn't exactly much of a return, because the Tigers/Dombrowski know what they're doing.

 

They managed to bring back Fulmer, Norris and Boyd in one calendar year to replenish their rotation because DD understood their situation quite clearly last year, and traded Cespedes and Price.

 

The Tigers ended up with the far better player (defensively alone, he's worth 2.0-2.5 WAR per year) in Jose Iglesias.

 

Good news, in the sense that it seemed they were trying to make an effort to choose some type of direction...not really due to being 100% sold on Peavy himself as a starting pitcher going forward.

Edited July 10, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

And we did end up packaging/trading Santiago, just not for a 3B....it was for Eaton.

 

They did trade Addison Reed for a 3B (just not a good one).

 

I don't think I gave it either praise or derision, it was more of a neutral statement...and Avi Garcia as the centerpiece wasn't exactly much of a return, because the Tigers/Dombrowski know what they're doing.

 

They managed to bring back Fulmer, Norris and Boyd in one calendar year to replenish their rotation because DD understood their situation quite clearly last year, and traded Cespedes and Price.

 

The Tigers ended up with the far better player (defensively alone, he's worth 2.0-2.5 WAR per year) in Jose Iglesias.

 

Good news, in the sense that it seemed they were trying to make an effort to choose some type of direction...not really due to being 100% sold on Peavy himself as a starting pitcher going forward.

 

Neutral? Nice try. It wasn't because they resigned Peavy that they traded for Eaton. Peavy was long gone. Maybe they should have traded Q for Headley. He was the big 3B at the time. And if we really made a stretch and said it was neutral, why do you remember it now as "ill advised"? In one post ip you said they had no clear direction, now this one says they were showing a direction. LOL.

Whatever you do, you should stop complaining about trading Semien. In that thread, you mentioned it was a trade that HAD to be made.

 

The Tigers certainly know what the are doing. They are all in, the Sox at the kiddie table and it shows, a record an entire half a game better.you weren't done I. The Peavy thread. This didn't appear "neutral "

 

It's one of those cases of selective memory with Peavy.

 

A lot of our gripes were about his record against the Tigers, particularly the 6-0 blown game, some of his starts down the stretch where he was "so-so" or okay instead of pitching like an ace.

 

Of course, the counter-argument is that he's no longer the 2007 version, has diminished stuff, has had to adapt and learn to be a pitcher rather than just a thrower...THAT previous Cy Young glimmering version will never return again, any more (and I see some are still holding out hope that he'll bounce back into the mid 90's with his FB again).

 

Statistically, there's no arguing with his stats, as an overall body of work, from 2012. And there's no arguing that if he put up those same numbers the next two years, the White Sox would have made a very sound investment.

 

And then there will always be those who appreciate his "manning up" and coming back from a first of its kind surgery as quickly as he did, instead of packing it in and collecting a paycheck.

 

The whole team just ran out of gas (Sale, Peavy, Quintana, the rookies), we had the injuries to deal with constantly throughout the 2nd half...most of us were not as angry as Greg about the "collapse" as it was pretty predictable to those who follow both the Tigers and Sox closely. (That said, I believed we would actually take it after winning the final Tigers game and then again when Dunn hit the homer to win another one in the following days).

Edited July 10, 2016 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Wrong. I did not like the Bonafacio signing from day one. Why are we talking about it? Because I mentioned that he was DFA'd this week.

 

Because you brought it up!

[captain54]

The whole team just ran out of gas (Sale, Peavy, Quintana, the rookies), we had the injuries to deal with constantly throughout the 2nd half...most of us were not as angry as Greg about the "collapse" as it was pretty predictable to those who follow both the Tigers and Sox closely. (That said, I believed we would actually take it after winning the final Tigers game and then again when Dunn hit the homer to win another one in the following days).

 

It certainly didn't help that the Sox went 6-12 against the 72-90 Royals. That was the season right there

 

[caulfield12]

Neutral? Nice try. It wasn't because they resigned Peavy that they traded for Eaton. Peavy was long gone. Maybe they should have traded Q for Headley. He was the big 3B at the time. And if we really made a stretch and said it was neutral, why do you remember it now as "ill advised"? In one post ip you said they had no clear direction, now this one says they were showing a direction. LOL.

Whatever you do, you should stop complaining about trading Semien. In that thread, you mentioned it was a trade that HAD to be made.

 

The Tigers certainly know what the are doing. They are all in, the Sox at the kiddie table and it shows, a record an entire half a game better.you weren't done I. The Peavy thread. This didn't appear "neutral "

 

It's one of those cases of selective memory with Peavy.

 

A lot of our gripes were about his record against the Tigers, particularly the 6-0 blown game, some of his starts down the stretch where he was "so-so" or okay instead of pitching like an ace.

 

Of course, the counter-argument is that he's no longer the 2007 version, has diminished stuff, has had to adapt and learn to be a pitcher rather than just a thrower...THAT previous Cy Young glimmering version will never return again, any more (and I see some are still holding out hope that he'll bounce back into the mid 90's with his FB again).

 

Statistically, there's no arguing with his stats, as an overall body of work, from 2012. And there's no arguing that if he put up those same numbers the next two years, the White Sox would have made a very sound investment.

 

And then there will always be those who appreciate his "manning up" and coming back from a first of its kind surgery as quickly as he did, instead of packing it in and collecting a paycheck.

 

The whole team just ran out of gas (Sale, Peavy, Quintana, the rookies), we had the injuries to deal with constantly throughout the 2nd half...most of us were not as angry as Greg about the "collapse" as it was pretty predictable to those who follow both the Tigers and Sox closely. (That said, I believed we would actually take it after winning the final Tigers game and then again when Dunn hit the homer to win another one in the following days).

 

 

Yes, they pretty much had to give up Semien because they'd already established they didn't trust him and weren't going to give him another chance at a starting job...and they certainly weren't going to let him play SS at the big league level.

 

The same exact thing happened to Micah Johnson.

 

Young player comes up and struggles over 50-150 at-bats. Organization cuts bait on him or "sells high" (Trayce Thompson, although he might be the only position player who outperformed expectations in the past decade). It's surprising Carlos Sanchez and Saladino are still around for this year, actually.

 

As it was, they still weren't ready to give Saladino the starting job, hence bringing in Rollins for two months.

 

 

[caulfield12]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/2017...rankings-4.html

 

Obvious White Sox FA targets:

 

Bautista/Encarnacion (both too old but won't stop a team from overpaying)

Josh Reddick

Ian Desmond (this time the cost will be 4-5 years and $60-80 million)

Kenley Jansen or Aroldis Chapman (if they trade Robertson, which is highly unlikely)

Wilson Ramos/Wieters (two obvious catching targets)

Dexter Fowler

Mark Trumbo

Michael Saunders

Carlos Gomez/Colby Rasmus

Neil Walker

Rich Hill

 

Not a whole lot of talent at all to spread around the entire majors, this time around. Almost nothing on the starting pitching market, just a lot of spare parts and veteran relievers...

Edited July 13, 2016 by caulfield12

[FT35]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/2017...rankings-4.html

 

Obvious White Sox FA targets:

 

Bautista/Encarnacion (both too old but won't stop a team from overpaying)

Josh Reddick

Ian Desmond (this time the cost will be 4-5 years and $60-80 million)

Kenley Jansen or Aroldis Chapman (if they trade Robertson, which is highly unlikely)

Wilson Ramos/Wieters (two obvious catching targets)

Dexter Fowler

Mark Trumbo

Michael Saunders

Carlos Gomez/Colby Rasmus

Neil Walker

Rich Hill

 

Not a whole lot of talent at all to spread around the entire majors, this time around. Almost nothing on the starting pitching market, just a lot of spare parts and veteran relievers...

 

Yeah, not sure any of these would make much sense for us. Maybe Reddick? Except a FA deal would probably take him well into his 30's and involve outbidding a few other teams. Maybe if Gomez's value hits rock bottom after this year's dud, they could take a flier on him with a 1 year deal--dirt cheap--and hope for a bounceback? It would keep Eaton in RF.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/2017...rankings-4.html

 

Obvious White Sox FA targets:

 

Bautista/Encarnacion (both too old but won't stop a team from overpaying)

Josh Reddick

Ian Desmond (this time the cost will be 4-5 years and $60-80 million)

Kenley Jansen or Aroldis Chapman (if they trade Robertson, which is highly unlikely)

Wilson Ramos/Wieters (two obvious catching targets)

Dexter Fowler

Mark Trumbo

Michael Saunders

Carlos Gomez/Colby Rasmus

Neil Walker

Rich Hill

 

Not a whole lot of talent at all to spread around the entire majors, this time around. Almost nothing on the starting pitching market, just a lot of spare parts and veteran relievers...

 

And they can't really give up their 1st round pick to sign somebody.

 

[brian310]

Yeah, not sure any of these would make much sense for us. Maybe Reddick? Except a FA deal would probably take him well into his 30's and involve outbidding a few other teams. Maybe if Gomez's value hits rock bottom after this year's dud, they could take a flier on him with a 1 year deal--dirt cheap--and hope for a bounceback? It would keep Eaton in RF.

 

I like that Gomez idea. Definitely the type of deal this team would make as opposed to signing someone else to a big deal.

[ChiSox59]

I like that Gomez idea. Definitely the type of deal this team would make as opposed to signing someone else to a big deal.

 

 

Me too. Buying Gomez on the cheap would be nice. 1 year deal with an option. Or even 1 year deal, and recoup a pick in a year if he's any good. Doubt the Sox will be the only team doing that though.

[southsider2k5]

The top level of free agents this year are going to be insanely over priced with the dearth of people out there.

[ptatc]

The top level of free agents this year are going to be insanely over priced with the dearth of people out there.

Vader, Maul or Sidious?

[southsider2k5]

Vader, Maul or Sidious?

 

Vader, I am old skool.

[caulfield12]

Cespedes right now is projected as the only $100 million contract, assuming he doesn't go back for one of those "year at a time" deals.

 

It's pretty hard to imagine Bautista or Encarnacion at their respective ages getting that type of money. $60-75 million would seemingly be about the max, like Zobrist last off-season.

 

Then, when you consider losing a 1st round draft pick as well...just don't see many of these players being good matches when you consider the overpay involved, and the fact that, other than Colby Rasmus (an enigma of his own, ala JD Drew) and/or Carlos Gomez, there aren't many viable options for CF.

 

Houston is also bringing up Alex Bregman over the weekend (to play 3B), so that will push Valbuena/AJ Reed/Gattis into shared at-bats...so, in the end, you'd have to think at least one or both of those guys will be available at season's end with all the young talent pushing up from below.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

If the White Sox are going to get a ton of credit for Jose Quintana (actually, quite similar circumstances to Guerra, except Junior's age and even more traveled history), then they should have to answer for why they didn't see Junior as having a future with the team.

 

He's got a 2.1 WAR right now. Now we can't guarantee those same results were he pitching with the White Sox, but looking at all of the other pitchers the White Sox were protecting on their October 5th 40 man roster...it's a bit befuddling.

 

The Yankees/Cashman always said Quintana got caught up in a numbers game and that they had a number of better, more highly touted prospects than him in their system...but who exactly from the White Sox system so badly needed to be protected?

Simply making a pitcher's age as the PRIMARY argument doesn't make a whole lotta sense...because you have lots of guys like Esteban Loaiza, Matt Thornton or Jose Contreras that had their best years with the White Sox (well) past 31. Phil Humber, off the top of my head, was another guy who became serviceable well after his expiration date as a prospect.

 

That said, I have a hard time believing Mr. Guerra would be putting up the same exact statistics as a starter with the White Sox in the AL Central. If we don't make it to the playoffs, letting him go will be about reason #59 for us not getting there.

 

Guess who wrote that in May? There are so many of these it is hysterical.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

I have no side in this battle, but Dick Allen is straight ethering Caulfield right now. There's nothing worse than ripping a move in hindsight when you were in favor of it when it took place. Glad that certain posters are being held accountable for their flip-flopping.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Chicago White Sox

[southsider2k5]

In all reality, Guerra is a fluke. The entirety of MLB passed on him what, a dozen times? Maybe more? Using him as an example of failed player recognition is more of an indictment of the science than the White Sox. The guy is 31.

[Special K]

Why didn't we sign Yunel Escobar instead of the brilliant combo of Jackson/Latos/Rollins. Think about it... Had we just signed Eacobar and say Desmond, this team would be a playoff contenders Escobar could replace the garbage that is Avi amd Desmond would've been a fantastic addition in the outfield. Instead we got Schuck and Are praying Morneau is decent.

 

How Does Hahn get it wrong more often than not? I know he can't be perfect, but he should be right more

Often than wrong and definitely has not lived up

To that standard. At this point, and in the name of Brooks Boyer, all I can say is #StepUp

[Special K]

Chance would be rolling in his grave with this kinda production.

[GreenSox]

In all reality, Guerra is a fluke. The entirety of MLB passed on him what, a dozen times? Maybe more? Using him as an example of failed player recognition is more of an indictment of the science than the White Sox. The guy is 31.

.

One difference- Guerra was on the Whitesox. He was not on those other teams recently. Cooper wouldn't use him.

Sure he was a fluke. But flukes happen. Guerra pitched off the charts in Charlotte before being called up. Just need to be aware when it's your good fortune.

 

No need to make excuses for Cooper and the rest of the evaluators. That was a poor job with personnel.

 

When Hahn abruptly cut the rebuild short, he had 5 years of Q and Sale. Now it's down to 3.5 years with little progress made. Foolishly saddled team with 2.5 years of Shields. What to do?

Edited July 16, 2016 by GreenSox

[Bigsoxhurt35]

.

One difference- Guerra was on the Whitesox. He was not on those other teams recently. Cooper wouldn't use him.

Sure he was a fluke. But flukes happen. Guerra pitched off the charts in Charlotte before being called up. Just need to be aware when it's your good fortune.

 

No need to make excuses for Cooper and the rest of the evaluators. That was a poor job with personnel.

 

When Hahn abruptly cut the rebuild short, he had 5 years of Q and Sale. Now it's down to 3.5 years with little progress made. Foolishly saddled team with 2.5 years of Shields. What to do?

And an owner who won't break the bank in a hitter that this team badly needs.

[Dick Allen]

And an owner who won't break the bank in a hitter that this team badly needs.

So in one thread you say blow this team up. In this one they just need a hitter the owner is too cheap to acquire. Seems you can't pick a lane.

[Kyyle23]

It really has nothing to do with breaking the bank, but go ahead and run with that.