Rick Hahn

[OmarComing25]

Really want to see Fulmer get his K's and strike percentage up before moving up.

 

I am very happy Beck came back from injury strong, but I really wish we could get more K power pitchers in pen. Maybe him going all out gets his velocity up and gets more swings and misses, but I wish he could have made it as a starter. Would have made a lot of things easier if Erik Johnson and Beck panned out.

Fulmer has 39 K in his last 29 IP, has cut his walk rate to just 8% over that period too. ERA over that stretch is still uninspiring (4.34 ERA), but the peripherals are starting to look good for him (only 1 HR in that stretch too), which is encouraging.

 

EDIT: Those numbers don't include his latest start last night, 7 shutout innings with 7 K and 2 BB.

Edited June 27, 2016 by OmarComing25

[bmags]

Fulmer has 39 K in his last 29 IP, has cut his walk rate to just 8% over that period too. ERA over that stretch is still uninspiring (4.34 ERA), but the peripherals are starting to look good for him (only 1 HR in that stretch too), which is encouraging.

 

EDIT: Those numbers don't include his latest start last night, 7 shutout innings with 7 K and 2 BB.

 

What is that though, 4 starts? Even last game looked like he through just over 60% for strikes. I am glad he's doing well but I don't think he's shown enough yet to move him to the MLB for our fifth starter.

[OmarComing25]

What is that though, 4 starts? Even last game looked like he through just over 60% for strikes. I am glad he's doing well but I don't think he's shown enough yet to move him to the MLB for our fifth starter.

It's a small sample but he is moving in the right direction at least. I didn't mean to imply I wanted him in the rotation, I completely agree that he shouldn't be there yet.

[GreenSox]

He also traded away veterans for young, cost-controlled players (now where have we heard that term in recent years!) like Melido Perez, Greg Hibbard, Eric King, Lance Johnson, Wilson Alvarez, and (cough) Sammy Sosa. That happened primarily over a three year period from '87-'89, and then the next thing you knew, there was a 94 game win season in his fourth (and last) season. The man had a plan when it came to building from within and augmenting with trades for the type of young, cost-controlled players that Hahn has TALKED about getting over the past five years but rarely has.

Himes' work in the late 1980s was phenomenal.

And let's not forget his drafts: McDowell, Ventura, Thomas, Fernandez.

After Himes: Ruffcorn, Pearson, Christman, Clemons, Mark Johnson (woo), Jeff Liefer (woo woo) etc., etc., etc.

Over the next 20 years, the only first rounders who amounted to a thing were Gio and Rowand, and they were supplementals. Chris Sale stopped the streak.

 

But it's one big happy family.

Edited June 27, 2016 by GreenSox

[Y2Jimmy0]

Himes' work in the late 1980s was phenomenal.

And let's not forget his drafts: McDowell, Ventura, Thomas, Fernandez.

After Himes: Ruffcorn, Pearson, Christman, Clemons, Mark Johnson (woo), Jeff Liefer (woo woo) etc., etc., etc.

Over the next 20 years, the only first rounders who amounted to a thing were Gio and Rowand, and they were supplementals. Chris Sale stopped the streak.

 

But it's one big happy family.

 

 

Sale, Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Collins, Burdi should be a decent run though.

[bmags]

It's a small sample but he is moving in the right direction at least. I didn't mean to imply I wanted him in the rotation, I completely agree that he shouldn't be there yet.

 

I am pleased with his performance, I'm not disappointed in him at all. His strike percentage last game was 62% which is good. I just want to make sure he is learning how to survive in the strike zone and isn't just expecting these weaker hitters to constantly chase. I'm sure he could be okay in the bullpen now I just don't want to rely on this guy moving up this year as soon as he has a little bit of success.

[Quin]

Sale, Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Collins, Burdi should be a decent run though.

 

Man, once the slotting system got implemented we've become way better at this whole drafting thing.

[caulfield12]

If anyone knows goalpost moving, you are the one.

 

If you want to judge your minor leagues on W-L records, you have a big problem. The object isn't to win games, it's to develop players. It's a much better system than when Hahn took over. In fact, you yourself Mr. Goalpost said the ONLY reason to pay attention to the White Sox anymore was Tim Anderson, and the 3 draft picks this year.

 

You pointed out they would get rolled by Toronto, that Minnesota is playing better (they have won 6 of their last 16) and are out for revenge, so the Sox have no chance against them, and that then the trip to Houston where the Astros pretty much won't lose again will end the White Sox season.

 

You are just wrong. Again. They are competing right now. In fact, before the season started you stated Detroit and KC were all in, the Sox were just eating at the kiddie table. They are right with them. Cleveland has busted out on a hot streak, but they, as unbelievable as this may seem, will go bad again.

 

Since you don't have an answer, let's go with 84 wins, the SoxTalk pre-season average...or 85, somewhere in that 83-85 range. Do you think finishing close to .500 (barring any major injuries) constitutes a successful season? And what should be the bar for 2017, being "sort of" close to the playoff/wild card hunt?

 

Simply said that Minnesota was playing better (in general) without defining it...you had it the last 16 games, I'm sure those numbers (without even looking them up) would be closer to .500 if we extended it out, so that means the White Sox SHOULD win 2/3 if not 3/3, right?

 

Predicting every single game or series in baseball is pretty hard to do, but there are "general trends." If you really believe the White Sox are going to roll the Astros and go 5-1 the next 6 games, more power to you.

 

 

Eating at the kiddie table? Well, Detroit and KC are "all in" and will be making moves in the trade market...will the White Sox match them? The White Sox could be 7 1/2 games back after tonight, unless you're going to assume that the Braves roll over the Indians.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CH...le-scores.shtml

A year ago on this exact date, 32-40 and 13 games back. Congrats to Rick Hahn for the huge improvement. Don't know what we would do without him.

Edited June 27, 2016 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

Eating at the kiddie table? Well, Detroit and KC are "all in" and will be making moves in the trade market...will the White Sox match them? The White Sox could be 7 1/2 games back after tonight, unless you're going to assume that the Braves roll over the Indians.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CH...le-scores.shtml

A year ago on this exact date, 32-40 and 13 games back. Congrats to Rick Hahn for the huge improvement. Don't know what we would do without him.

Sure he can. No one's giving an A prospect for the Bruces or, egads, Brauns of the world. If the other team offers 2 Bs, Hahn will gladly deal 3 and throw in an A ball prospect for lagniappe. He's proven his willingness to do that before. He did it in the Shields trade that should have been nothing but a salary dump. And of course most of those orgs have 10-15 B prospects...the Sox have 5 - maybe.

My hope, of course, is that Rick Hahn spares us any more of his trading acumen and talent evaluation skills. Do us no "favors", please Rick.

 

Oh, and I see that Marcus Semien just jacked a 3 run homer against Rick's main man Samardzija.

Edited June 28, 2016 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

He's quietly on a pace for a 30-35 HR season at SS...that nobody but roto league owners will even pay attention to.

[Lip Man 1]

But the flip side of that is how many runs will he allow and cost games because of his bad defense?

 

Mark

[caulfield12]

By WAR, he's 14th and on a pace for a 2.5-2.7 season (still behind lesser hitters/better defenders like Iglesias and Russell).

 

OPS-wise, 11th.

 

So I would say you have, at the very least, a league average SS, cost-controlled. All things considered, that's the type of asset you want to have.

 

Right now, Tim Anderson's worth 0.6 in first first 73 AB's. It's not quite so simple as just projecting him to 2.0-2.4 for roughly the same number of ab's, but all we can do is extrapolate for now with such a limited sample size. Personally, I think he's closer to a 3 and MAYBE a 4 WAR ss over an entire season, we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

 

Frazier has regressed from 5.3 (2014) to 4 (2015) to 1.3 so far this year.

 

Trayce actually put up a 1.5 in 122 ab's with the Sox last year, but he's now at only 0.6 over nearly 200 with the Dodgers in 2016.

 

Avi's been worth -0.3 over his last 700 at-bat's, so about the best argument to be made is you're probably looking at a win difference of roughly 1.5-2.0 with Semien as the DH. Not enough to put us in the playoff picture, exactly. It was arguable about a month ago (that they would have been better off with Thompson/Montas), but now that trade for Frazier doesn't look like a clear win for either side. The results are inconclusive, at best.

Edited June 28, 2016 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

But the flip side of that is how many runs will he allow and cost games because of his bad defense?

 

Mark

14 homers; play him at DH. Bottom line though is that this trade provides a nice snapshot of Rick Hahn's ability as a talent evaluator and as a GM.

Semien is out of position at SS probably, but, fwiw, he has a positive defensive WAR this year (I don't exactly trust those defensive WAR numbers I will confess).

Edited June 28, 2016 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

15 homers now, 39 RBI's, 778 OPS

 

.248 BA

 

1.2 WAR (updated)

1.3 WAR Todd Frazier

[Balta1701]

But the flip side of that is how many runs will he allow and cost games because of his bad defense?

 

Mark

He's cut his error rate compared to last year by more than 50% and he's getting to more baseballs per game. He's not going to win a gold glove over there, but he's an average defensive SS right now.

[FT35]

Someone remind me again what is keeping us from sending Avi down for a while (outside of having no one to replace him with...ha!) I know he's young, but he's been a disaster in the field so they aren't benefiting from his glove much. He was a .291 career hitter in the minors...hovering in the .240+ range in MLB...Maybe he could find some of that magic again along with maybe half of the missing 50 points on his average? Even if he doesn't become the 30/100 guy we thought we were getting...I'd take 20+/80 if he could hit .275. Trying to showcase him at the MLB level isn't exactly working...as it stands now, not many teams looking for a .240/13/50 player who cancels out most of his own production whenever he plays RF.

[Harry Chappas]

Someone remind me again what is keeping us from sending Avi down for a while (outside of having no one to replace him with...ha!) I know he's young, but he's been a disaster in the field so they aren't benefiting from his glove much. He was a .291 career hitter in the minors...hovering in the .240+ range in MLB...Maybe he could find some of that magic again along with maybe half of the missing 50 points on his average? Even if he doesn't become the 30/100 guy we thought we were getting...I'd take 20+/80 if he could hit .275. Trying to showcase him at the MLB level isn't exactly working...as it stands now, not many teams looking for a .240/13/50 player who cancels out most of his own production whenever he plays RF.

 

I have been asking this question since April.

[oldsox]

Sure he can. No one's giving an A prospect for the Bruces or, egads, Brauns of the world. If the other team offers 2 Bs, Hahn will gladly deal 3 and throw in an A ball prospect for lagniappe. He's proven his willingness to do that before. He did it in the Shields trade that should have been nothing but a salary dump. And of course most of those orgs have 10-15 B prospects...the Sox have 5 - maybe.

My hope, of course, is that Rick Hahn spares us any more of his trading acumen and talent evaluation skills. Do us no "favors", please Rick.

 

Oh, and I see that Marcus Semien just jacked a 3 run homer against Rick's main man Samardzija.

Right on, GreenSox. I made a similar comment in Future Sox. Giving up Tatis in the Shields trade was either lunacy or a sign of weakness, or both. Pads wanted to get rid of that guy no matter what; should have been salary dump as you said. Okay we give up Johnson. I see no need to have given up Tatis, whether he succeeds or not. But San Diego wanted Tatis, and Hahn says okay. What was the San Diego GM gonna do, walk away?

 

Stupid, just plain stupid to include him in that trade.

[ptatc]

Man, once the slotting system got implemented we've become way better at this whole drafting thing.

Yes, once it stopped being "who ever spends the most money wins" the Sox have been more successful. The late 80s, early 90s run was pretty good as well

[Kyyle23]

Right on, GreenSox. I made a similar comment in Future Sox. Giving up Tatis in the Shields trade was either lunacy or a sign of weakness, or both. Pads wanted to get rid of that guy no matter what; should have been salary dump as you said. Okay we give up Johnson. I see no need to have given up Tatis, whether he succeeds or not. But San Diego wanted Tatis, and Hahn says okay. What was the San Diego GM gonna do, walk away?

 

Stupid, just plain stupid to include him in that trade.

 

So you were a big Tatis fan before this trade? That's interesting.

[FT35]

So you were a big Tatis fan before this trade? That's interesting.

 

I do see what he's saying. It's not that he was a big Tatis fan, it's the logic behind his inclusion in a deal where SD was clearly just looking to dump Shields. It's something we have done in the past--dump that extra low A prospect as a "throw in." But why lose a prospect when you're doing SD a favor just by agreeing to take and PAY Shields? Not saying that Tatis could be the next well...Tatis...but the Cardinals DID keep Albert Pujols in the minors because Fernando Tatis SR was manning 3rd base at an All-Star level at that time. This kid is what...17 years old? So no we're not claiming that we just traded the farm away, but just saying...

[southsider2k5]

I do see what he's saying. It's not that he was a big Tatis fan, it's the logic behind his inclusion in a deal where SD was clearly just looking to dump Shields. It's something we have done in the past--dump that extra low A prospect as a "throw in." But why lose a prospect when you're doing SD a favor just by agreeing to take and PAY Shields? Not saying that Tatis could be the next well...Tatis...but the Cardinals DID keep Albert Pujols in the minors because Fernando Tatis SR was manning 3rd base at an All-Star level at that time. This kid is what...17 years old? So no we're not claiming that we just traded the farm away, but just saying...

 

Where has it been said that Tatis was a "throw in"?

[Kyyle23]

I do see what he's saying. It's not that he was a big Tatis fan, it's the logic behind his inclusion in a deal where SD was clearly just looking to dump Shields. It's something we have done in the past--dump that extra low A prospect as a "throw in." But why lose a prospect when you're doing SD a favor just by agreeing to take and PAY Shields? Not saying that Tatis could be the next well...Tatis...but the Cardinals DID keep Albert Pujols in the minors because Fernando Tatis SR was manning 3rd base at an All-Star level at that time. This kid is what...17 years old? So no we're not claiming that we just traded the farm away, but just saying...

 

You kind of are saying you are trading the farm away when you call it lunacy. Tatis is a lottery ticket, he has MLB bloodlines but that doesn't mean anything, there are plenty of second gen players that never amounted to much in the majors

[FT35]

Where has it been said that Tatis was a "throw in"?

 

Just me if not anyone I missed...maybe the Padres interest centered solely around Tatis...who knows. But the trade was a textbook salary dump--summarized by the GM's PUBLIC comments about Shields after his last start. They wanted him on the NEXT train out of town and so while it was a GREAT time to buy, we came to him with $27 Million a young, LH MLB-ready starter, AND Tatis. The guys who called this move out were claiming the inclusion of Tatis to be unnecessary because the salary DUMP was already achieved without trading him away.

[Quin]

Just me if not anyone I missed...maybe the Padres interest centered solely around Tatis...who knows. But the trade was a textbook salary dump--summarized by the GM's PUBLIC comments about Shields after his last start. They wanted him on the NEXT train out of town and so while it was a GREAT time to buy, we came to him with $27 Million a young, LH MLB-ready starter, AND Tatis. The guys who called this move out were claiming the inclusion of Tatis to be unnecessary because the salary DUMP was already achieved without trading him away.

 

Erik Johnson is right-handed and also bad.