DC Films

[Quin]

There was a lot I didn't like about BvS - the plot jumped all over the place, Lex acted recklessly (and killed Mercy...just cause?), Batman killing so openly with guns, Superman being grim and dour, the editing was jumpy and the soundtrack was way, way too loud.

 

But one review I read put it best - it was obsessed with being iconic. Like, every scene. From gods and angels, to piss jars having meaning. Nothing was there for the sake of building. It's like covering the walls of an abandoned, falling apart building with Renaissance artwork.

 

It's why there so little emotional punch behind Supes' death and resurrection. Because there weren't emotional build ups to it...and the fact that Wonder Woman could have just taken the spear. That would have worked. Or he could have thrown it.

 

Like, Jesus, Quicksilver's death was more emotional because it showed the smallest bit of character growth and (let's ignore Coulson) didn't resurrect him in 15 minutes.

 

And also just from the standpoint of a journalist, maaaaaan, Clark woulda been fired so fast.

 

I do think that Batman and Wonder Woman will be able to carry the franchises along until it all improves. Justice League's trailer was a step towards that.

[Y2HH]

There was a lot I didn't like about BvS - the plot jumped all over the place, Lex acted recklessly (and killed Mercy...just cause?), Batman killing so openly with guns, Superman being grim and dour, the editing was jumpy and the soundtrack was way, way too loud.

 

But one review I read put it best - it was obsessed with being iconic. Like, every scene. From gods and angels, to piss jars having meaning. Nothing was there for the sake of building. It's like covering the walls of an abandoned, falling apart building with Renaissance artwork.

 

It's why there so little emotional punch behind Supes' death and resurrection. Because there weren't emotional build ups to it...and the fact that Wonder Woman could have just taken the spear. That would have worked. Or he could have thrown it.

 

Like, Jesus, Quicksilver's death was more emotional because it showed the smallest bit of character growth and (let's ignore Coulson) didn't resurrect him in 15 minutes.

 

And also just from the standpoint of a journalist, maaaaaan, Clark woulda been fired so fast.

 

I do think that Batman and Wonder Woman will be able to carry the franchises along until it all improves. Justice League's trailer was a step towards that.

 

First, let me thank you for actually talking about it...it's a bit refreshing to discuss it versus simply having to go on the defense because "the movie literally causes cancer" type comments most come in here and post for some reason.

 

The Batman stuff made perfect sense to me, and I actually really liked it for a number of reasons. First and foremost, Batman always kills depending on the canon you follow, and this was obviously Frank Millers Batman. Keep in mind, there are probably 50 versions of Batman, and that's the one they decided to follow here. This is clearly the Arkham Batman, and frankly, I'm glad for that. I didn't need to see yet another Batman we've already seen 50 times in the movies. Also, I don't know where people got this notion that Batman doesn't kill, even in the older movies, he openly kills people and did so quite often. As for this specific version, I felt they really told the Batman story quite well as to what's happened to him in that world, he's simply stopped caring about criminals and doesn't care how cruel he's become. I think they adequately explained that.

 

You're second point is well taken, about everything being iconic...but that's Snyder for you. One thing Snyder does well is capture the levity of a scene, he can really make a sequence feel larger than life, but sometimes he doesn't know when to say when as shown in BvS (and frankly, other movies of his).

 

Supermans death sequence itself was well shot, but I agree, it could have been done WAY better had they given the moment time to breath a bit...Snyder had so much going on in that sequence and it happened so fast it was hard to see what actually happened when Superman could have gotten away, but instead of doing so, sacrificed himself for "his world".

 

The journalist thing is well explained in the "ultimate edition" where Clark is actually given ample screen time as a journalist, had they just shown that movie, regardless of it's three hour run time, it would have done the world a favor. The studio wanted to avoid the R rating and the run time, and in order to do so, cut out a LOT of Clark/Superman scenes. While some complain that you shouldn't need 3 hours to tell the story, Snyder did, and the 3 hour cut is a superior movie in every regard despite it's run time.

 

I do think the casting of Gadot and Affleck turned out to be brilliant. I never really questioned the casting like a lot of people did, but I think both really look and feel the part. Sadly, most people wouldn't give Gadot the time of day for no real reason, since I guarantee most didn't even know who she was before they looked her up, and Affleck, it's as if they think this is still the Gigli/Daredevil Affleck from the 90's, when in fact it's the one that directs and stars in Oscar caliber films these days like Gone Baby Gone, The Town and Argo.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Y2HH

[GoSox05]

Batman killing in BvS was something that people really complained about, but Batman has always killed people. It's this urban legend that superheroes never kill, but it's not really true. Bob Kane used to have Batman carry a gun and throw people off buildings. So it's nothing new.

 

I do think that Superman was too grumpy in that movie. I didn't mind it at first, but rewatching it a couple times, I think they could have had him be a little more upbeat.

[Quin]

First, let me thank you for actually talking about it...it's a bit refreshing to discuss it versus simply having to go on the defense because "the movie literally causes cancer" type comments most come in here and post for some reason.

 

The Batman stuff made perfect sense to me, and I actually really liked it for a number of reasons. First and foremost, Batman always kills depending on the canon you follow, and this was obviously Frank Millers Batman. Keep in mind, there are probably 50 versions of Batman, and that's the one they decided to follow here. This is clearly the Arkham Batman, and frankly, I'm glad for that. I didn't need to see yet another Batman we've already seen 50 times in the movies. Also, I don't know where people got this notion that Batman doesn't kill, even in the older movies, he openly kills people and did so quite often. As for this specific version, I felt they really told the Batman story quite well as to what's happened to him in that world, he's simply stopped caring about criminals and doesn't care how cruel he's become. I think they adequately explained that.

 

You're second point is well taken, about everything being iconic...but that's Snyder for you. One thing Snyder does well is capture the levity of a scene, he can really make a sequence feel larger than life, but sometimes he doesn't know when to say when as shown in BvS (and frankly, other movies of his).

 

Supermans death sequence itself was well shot, but I agree, it could have been done WAY better had they given the moment time to breath a bit...Snyder had so much going on in that sequence and it happened so fast it was hard to see what actually happened when Superman could have gotten away, but instead of doing so, sacrificed himself for "his world".

 

The journalist thing is well explained in the "ultimate edition" where Clark is actually given ample screen time as a journalist, had they just shown that movie, regardless of it's three hour run time, it would have done the world a favor. The studio wanted to avoid the R rating and the run time, and in order to do so, cut out a LOT of Clark/Superman scenes. While some complain that you shouldn't need 3 hours to tell the story, Snyder did, and the 3 hour cut is a superior movie in every regard despite it's run time.

 

I do think the casting of Gadot and Affleck turned out to be brilliant. I never really questioned the casting like a lot of people did, but I think both really look and feel the part. Sadly, most people wouldn't give Gadot the time of day for no real reason, since I guarantee most didn't even know who she was before they looked her up, and Affleck, it's as if they think this is still the Gigli/Daredevil Affleck from the 90's, when in fact it's the one that directs and stars in Oscar caliber films these days like Gone Baby Gone, The Town and Argo.

 

 

I don't know if there's redeeming that journalism stuff. Like, the Planet would have a sports desk. And Clark would be fired in 10 minutes.

 

I won't judge that until I eventually see the extended cut.

 

Batman killing in BvS was something that people really complained about, but Batman has always killed people. It's this urban legend that superheroes never kill, but it's not really true. Bob Kane used to have Batman carry a gun and throw people off buildings. So it's nothing new.

 

I do think that Superman was too grumpy in that movie. I didn't mind it at first, but rewatching it a couple times, I think they could have had him be a little more upbeat.

 

It was the killing with guns that unnerved me + his just complete and utter killing non-stop. Like, why are ANY of his villains alive now?

[lostfan]

The problem I have with Frank Miller's Batman is that the Dark Knight Returns was supposed to be Batman after decades of crime-fighting had sent him off the deep end. There is nothing wrong with that portrayal, per se, but over the past 20 or so years, it's seeped into the rest of Batman's identity. So Batman is this violent, insufferable, but still self-righteous dick that the other heroes respect, but tolerate more than they actually like.

[Boopa1219]

Just got out of Suicide Squad and while it wasn't great or what I wanted it to be, it was a good movie and a lot of fun, but I wish that I could've enjoyed it because the constant soundtrack took me out of the movie. It's probably the worst use of music that I've ever seen in any movie.

 

Jared Leto was great as the Joker, he really made the character his own and left an impression in his small amount of screen time. I am super excited to see his Joker go up against Ben Affleck's Batman.

Margot Robbie is Harely Quinn, Viola Davis's Amanda Waller is the scariest person in the movie and Will Smith just played himself and that's never a bad thing. I haven't enjoyed Will Smith this much in a long time.

 

A mainstay DC character makes his big screen debut in costume and I thought that it was a wasted opportunity but it was awesome seeing them for the first time.

 

The editing is really, really, really, really, really clunky. The movie would get into a nice grove with its cuts and edits but after a few sequences it would really slow down and get awkward, like a chariot with a busted wheel. There were some shots in the movie that (in my opinion) didn't need to be there.

 

Maybe my eyes are more trained and attuned to this stuff but if you look closely you can see where the reshoots are. A lot of them at the third act, watch Margot Robbie's makeup and Jay Hernandez's tattoos.

 

The villain was very underdeveloped, I don't want to spoil anything but it would've been better if they would have fleshed out that relationship and the villain's reasoning of doing what they in both human and monster form.

 

Being a film guy, loved that the movie was shot on film and the colors and overall image is great. Good cinematography.

 

I would give the movie a B- and I'm going to predict it will make somewhere between $650-700M, the word of mouth amongst people is very good despite the mixed reviews from critics. I haven't seen the CinemaScore yet.

 

Stay after the credits.

 

******

 

My advice to the execs at WB: Chill the f*** out!

 

I understand that the studio has been having a hard time at the BO for a few years now and it understandable why you would get nervous about a multi billion dollar film franchise but they have now meddled with two DC movies, in Suicide Squad and BvS.

 

Would the Zack Snyder cut of BvS have a hard time of reaching a billion dollars at the BO because it's a three hour movie? Yeah but it would have been praised so much more by people and the narrative around the DCEU would be entirely different. Suicide Squad would have been better if weren't for the studio melding their cut with David Ayer's because the film is all over the place tonally.

 

They keep saying they learned their lesson and are going to get out of their creative's way and I hope so because they can't f*** up Wonder Woman and Justice League, which both look phenomenal.

 

[Steve9347]

I do think that Batman and Wonder Woman will be able to carry the franchises along until it all improves. Justice League's trailer was a step towards that.

Trailers =/= movies.

[Steve9347]

The problem I have with Frank Miller's Batman is that the Dark Knight Returns was supposed to be Batman after decades of crime-fighting had sent him off the deep end. There is nothing wrong with that portrayal, per se, but over the past 20 or so years, it's seeped into the rest of Batman's identity. So Batman is this violent, insufferable, but still self-righteous dick that the other heroes respect, but tolerate more than they actually like.

This is an absolutely perfect statement.

[Y2HH]

The problem I have with Frank Miller's Batman is that the Dark Knight Returns was supposed to be Batman after decades of crime-fighting had sent him off the deep end. There is nothing wrong with that portrayal, per se, but over the past 20 or so years, it's seeped into the rest of Batman's identity. So Batman is this violent, insufferable, but still self-righteous dick that the other heroes respect, but tolerate more than they actually like.

 

I agree on this, it HAS seeped into his identity as we know it today, and the Arkham video games went a long way in lending a hand in this happening. For better or worse, THIS is the Batman most of the younger generation knows and loves.

 

That said, I liked the portrayal, as this IS the Batman Affleck is playing right now. They're also kind of showing him begin to revert back to his older, more forgiving ways in light of Supermans sacrifice. All of which I'm fine with, if there was anything that really stood out to me in BvS, it was Affleck's Arkham Batman...I really really liked it.

[lostfan]

I agree on this, it HAS seeped into his identity as we know it today, and the Arkham video games went a long way in lending a hand in this happening. For better or worse, THIS is the Batman most of the younger generation knows and loves.

 

That said, I liked the portrayal, as this IS the Batman Affleck is playing right now. They're also kind of showing him begin to revert back to his older, more forgiving ways in light of Supermans sacrifice. All of which I'm fine with, if there was anything that really stood out to me in BvS, it was Affleck's Arkham Batman...I really really liked it.

Affleck's portrayal of Batman is flawless.

 

Also I wouldn't necessarily put that on the Arkham games, Nolan's trilogy had more to do with that.

[lostfan]

And yeah, the fact that this is the version of Batman that younger people know means that DC is always marketing him that way and writing his comics that way, but it also means the rest of the DC universe has to move with him in order to be compatible, because he's their biggest IP. That is what they f***ed up with the New 52.

[Y2HH]

And yeah, the fact that this is the version of Batman that younger people know means that DC is always marketing him that way and writing his comics that way, but it also means the rest of the DC universe has to move with him in order to be compatible, because he's their biggest IP. That is what they f***ed up with the New 52.

 

I agree, and that's likely why were seeing the darker, more brooding Superman instead of the Christopher Reeve version everyone seems to be clamoring for. Which, for the record, I don't want. We already had that, and it already exists. That said, it is moving DC in a darker direction, but frankly, I like it...we already have Marvel's lighter hearted nature as alternative choice. I don't want two Marvel's anymore than I want two DC's. While DC's movies haven't been perfect by any means, I STILL prefer them over most of what the MCU has given me.

[lostfan]

I agree, and that's likely why were seeing the darker, more brooding Superman instead of the Christopher Reeve version everyone seems to be clamoring for. Which, for the record, I don't want. We already had that, and it already exists. That said, it is moving DC in a darker direction, but frankly, I like it...we already have Marvel's lighter hearted nature as alternative choice. I don't want two Marvel's anymore than I want two DC's. While DC's movies haven't been perfect by any means, I STILL prefer them over most of what the MCU has given me.

Everyone says they want the 1976 Superman, but when they did that recently, everyone hated it. So you just have to acknowledge most people don't really know what the f*** they're talking about lol

[Quin]

I agree, and that's likely why were seeing the darker, more brooding Superman instead of the Christopher Reeve version everyone seems to be clamoring for. Which, for the record, I don't want. We already had that, and it already exists. That said, it is moving DC in a darker direction, but frankly, I like it...we already have Marvel's lighter hearted nature as alternative choice. I don't want two Marvel's anymore than I want two DC's. While DC's movies haven't been perfect by any means, I STILL prefer them over most of what the MCU has given me.

 

To be fair, while Civil War had light hearted moments it got dark at times.

 

- Bucky murdering Tony's parents in cold blood, Tony seeing this footage

- A man tries to shoot himself in the head, only for the son of the man he killed to grab the gun and say "the living are not done with you yet."

 

If Snyder directed it, Tony would have just killed Bucky with a well placed shot vs. Cap being able to stop him and Zemo would have blown his brains out.

 

Everyone says they want the 1976 Superman, but when they did that recently, everyone hated it. So you just have to acknowledge most people don't really know what the f*** they're talking about lol

 

I think people want Superman to be Cap, which makes sense since they're analogues in comics. He doesn't have to be cheesy and a goofball, but the source of optimism that shines through.

[GoSox05]

Yeah, Brandon Routh gave us the clumsy Clark Kent, boy scout Superman and it bombed. Superman hasn't acted like that in the comics for 50 years.

 

 

I like the Superman they have now, but I do think he acts too much like Batman. He supposed to be the optimist of the two.

Edited August 4, 2016 by GoSox05

[lostfan]

Yeah, Brandon Routh gave us the clumsy Clark Kent, boycott Superman and it bombed. Superman hasn't acted like that in the comics for 50 years.

 

 

I like the Superman they have now, but I do think he acts too much like Batman. He supposed to be the optimist of the two.

It's valid. They can lighten him up juuuust a little. He would be more like Wonder Woman then.

[GoSox05]

You can already tell from the first JLA trailer that Flash is going to be the silly one. Flash and Green Lantern are always good in JLA comics annoying the more grumpy Batman and stoic Superman.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

I don't even want specific character archetypes, I just want good movies. That's all. It can be dark, it cannot be incoherent and jumbled, stay with a story and see it through. Batman killing people and using guns and Superman killing Zod doesn't bother me.

[GoSox05]

Also for people who think the movies are too dark and lack some of the humor of MCU. I suggest watching the DCU TV shows. Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Supergirl and Arrow(little bit more serious than the others). I like all those shows and they have lighter tone.

[Y2HH]

To be fair, while Civil War had light hearted moments it got dark at times.

 

- Bucky murdering Tony's parents in cold blood, Tony seeing this footage

- A man tries to shoot himself in the head, only for the son of the man he killed to grab the gun and say "the living are not done with you yet."

 

If Snyder directed it, Tony would have just killed Bucky with a well placed shot vs. Cap being able to stop him and Zemo would have blown his brains out.

 

 

 

I think people want Superman to be Cap, which makes sense since they're analogues in comics. He doesn't have to be cheesy and a goofball, but the source of optimism that shines through.

 

The parts you highlighted about Civil War are the only parts of the movie I liked. Civil War was flooded with fights for the sake of fighting, with nothing at stake, and no sense of actual danger. That and jokes, and what I found to be ultra silly in all the Ant-Man stuff.

 

The murder of Tony's parents and the fight that ensued were the only thing that mattered in the entire movie, and they were phenomenal.

 

We've now had 3 Spider-Man's, and I still prefer Tobey McGuires by far.

[lostfan]

Y2HH prefers the tone of his movies to be somewhere between Schindler's List and Friday the 13th, lol

[Quin]

Also for people who think the movies are too dark and lack some of the humor of MCU. I suggest watching the DCU TV shows. Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Supergirl and Arrow(little bit more serious than the others). I like all those shows and they have lighter tone.

 

And of course, Marvel's TV shows are dark as hell.

[Boopa1219]

In regards to the movie's use of soundtrack, I have to leave what I was doing because I have a migraine. My ears are still ringing.

[lostfan]

OK it was decent. Immediate thoughts

Margot Robbie was everything anyone wanted Harley Quinn to be. Phenomenal.

Leto did a decent job with the Joker. Very creepy. More like Nicholson than Ledger I think but he's his own guy. Not really sure what I think of the Joker/Harley relationship in the movie, it's not romance, the Joker is abusive towards her but then again the movie focused more on her than him and she thinks she's in love with him (not anymore in the comics but still).

Viola Davis was a bad ass Amanda Waller. She is one in the comics fast you low key can't f*** with.

Will Smith was Will Smith. You've seen him act before.

I agree with what has been said about the soundtrack. They were trying to be like Guardians of the Galaxy with the classic tracks but they were doing the most.

The CGI on the villain in the second half was unnecessary and looked like a Xbox 360 game from 2007.

 

Ending and the credits scene is setting up the Justice League and the next solo Batman movie.

[SoxFanForever]

OK it was decent. Immediate thoughts

Margot Robbie was everything anyone wanted Harley Quinn to be. Phenomenal.

Leto did a decent job with the Joker. Very creepy. More like Nicholson than Ledger I think but he's his own guy. Not really sure what I think of the Joker/Harley relationship in the movie, it's not romance, the Joker is abusive towards her but then again the movie focused more on her than him and she thinks she's in love with him (not anymore in the comics but still).

Viola Davis was a bad ass Amanda Waller. She is one in the comics fast you low key can't f*** with.

Will Smith was Will Smith. You've seen him act before.

I agree with what has been said about the soundtrack. They were trying to be like Guardians of the Galaxy with the classic tracks but they were doing the most.

The CGI on the villain in the second half was unnecessary and looked like a Xbox 360 game from 2007.

 

Ending and the credits scene is setting up the Justice League and the next solo Batman movie.

 

Is it bad that my favorite scenes in the movie were the ones with Battfleck? I got more jacked for that mid credits scene than most of the movie.

 

 

Still think it got some unnecessary hate from critics. I'd give it around a 6.5 or 7 out of 10. Not great but not the worst CBM ever made. Is isn't like they trotted the Fantastic 4 reboot out there.