2016-2017 NBA Thread

[Chisoxfn]

God I hope Pau isn't back. WHAT'S THE POINT?

Only makes sense if they have some hidden acquisition up their sleeve and I don't possibly know how they could acquire it via trade (they could make a big signing)...I just don't know how they make a big signing while keeping Pau (although I suppose they could trade Niko/Taj or others and than make a big signing and keep Pau).

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Fantastic trade. Surprised they pulled it off.

[bmags]

Jason I have to believe you had the luxury of not watching the Bulls last year to find Butler ball entertaining. Would much rather have suffered another year of hell and faced 2018 fresh than with this news that we are trying to "retool" (worked great with Sox, Jerry) with Pau Gasol Jimmy Butler and Robin Lopez as our core. Kill me now.

 

LOL at resigning Gasol. For the next four years we are basically the Brandon Jennings Milwaukee Bucks without fat OJ Mayo to gawk at. Maybe we'll get lucky and McDermott will put his baby fat back on.

[Chisoxfn]

Jason I have to believe you had the luxury of not watching the Bulls last year to find Butler ball entertaining. Would much rather have suffered another year of hell and faced 2018 fresh than with this news that we are trying to "retool" (worked great with Sox, Jerry) with Pau Gasol Jimmy Butler and Robin Lopez as our core. Kill me now.

 

LOL at resigning Gasol. For the next four years we are basically the Brandon Jennings Milwaukee Bucks without fat OJ Mayo to gawk at. Maybe we'll get lucky and McDermott will put his baby fat back on.

I watched almost every Bulls game. Butler was not what was wrong with the Bulls, but the dynamic with him and Rose was one of the things that was wrong. Derrick Rose was awful, the team had a lot of injuries, including Jimmy Butler, and well Hoiberg was terrible and part of that might have been due to Butler pushing him wrong and everything else, but we need a real PG. Just look at the overall team and how much better they were when Rose was out vs. in (both offensively and defensively). On the flipside, the opposite happened when Buckets was out. The two players were just awful fits alongside each other.

[Wanne]

Yeah I listened too and he sure didn't go full blown "we are committed to Jimmy" by any stretch of the imagination. My bet is that Jimmy is gone too and I am not sure it will be for the haul that Bulls fans want. It may be for a high first and a throw in and they take their lumps.

 

Rose had to go...he was going to walk next year anyway. But you still have the disconnect between Butler and Hoiberg...and Fred ain't goin' anywhere! If somebody wants to give up a top 3 pick this year...or Wiggins would be a win-win IMO...I'd do it. I love Jimmy's game..but it seems like his bromance with Marky Mark has kinda turned him into a little diva. Of course wtf do I know...I don't know him personally...

[Jose Abreu]

[Chisoxfn]

Thought the below nugget was interesting. I will caveat this by saying I don't know much about "win shares" and what defines them, but I do know under a lot of advanced stats Rose graded out really really poorly:

 

Of the five players involved in the trade, Rose had the fewest win shares last season. The Bulls' three acquisitions (10.6 win shares) were worth 9.4 more wins than the Knicks' two acquisitions (1.2 win shares).

[Jose Abreu]

I get it, it all makes sense to me, but it's still tough to swallow. Derrick Rose is the star player I grew up admiring. I was 8 when he was drafted and I remember it like it was yesterday.

[Jose Abreu]

Agreed.

 

Reading on twitter it sounds like Gar also made mention that they're going to sit down with Noah and that Calderon is tight with Pau. Maybe Lopez is the backup if they can get one of those guys to resign?

Calderon and Gasol are indeed extremely close, but I don't want Gasol back. I want Gibson starting.

[Soxbadger]

Thought the below nugget was interesting. I will caveat this by saying I don't know much about "win shares" and what defines them, but I do know under a lot of advanced stats Rose graded out really really poorly:

 

Of the five players involved in the trade, Rose had the fewest win shares last season. The Bulls' three acquisitions (10.6 win shares) were worth 9.4 more wins than the Knicks' two acquisitions (1.2 win shares).

 

For the Knicks I think they believe they are likely in a good position no matter what happens due to this trade. If Rose plays terrible, they clear $20mil cap space next year and go after a big time FA. If Rose is amazing they try and resign him and maybe are semi-competitive this year.

 

 

 

[Rowand44]

Kids these days...

[SoxAce]

Hopefully Grant turns into something. Cause right now I'm questioning what this franchise is trying to do. No draft picks? One young player? Are we still competing?

[chw42]

I get it, it all makes sense to me, but it's still tough to swallow. Derrick Rose is the star player I grew up admiring. I was 8 when he was drafted and I remember it like it was yesterday.

 

Just be glad you didn't grow up admiring Kirk Hinrich.

[Chisoxfn]

Just be glad you didn't grow up admiring Kirk Hinrich.

I'm going to buy me a Hinrich jersey. I'd always be able to wear it with a sense of pride. I have nothing but good memories of captain Kirk. Than again, I was the resident Hinrich homer.

[soxsoxsoxsox]

I just listened to the entire Gar presser. I've heard enough trade and post season recap press conferences. Jimmy is on the market. They may keep him, but he said NOTHING to the affect of "Jimmy is core piece here, we are building around him, blah blah blah"

 

K.C. Johnson ‏@KCJHoop 2h2 hours ago

 

Gar: "We value Jimmy. He fits in the direction we're headed."

 

[Chisoxfn]

K.C. Johnson ‏@KCJHoop 2h2 hours ago

 

Gar: "We value Jimmy. He fits in the direction we're headed."

Interesting that Melo's people reached out to Rose and Rose wouldn't talk to him either. Ignored the Bulls during the off-season, ignored Butler's attempts to have him train with him and Taj (evidently Rose ended up no showing)....yeah, not exactly enduring things for a guy who hasn't lived up to expectations after his injury.

 

Reports are that the Bulls have spent a lot of time engaging in discussions with Butler around the future of the franchise, etc. I think it is pretty evident (even the league chatter is the Bulls continue to say no and that includes turning down some solid proposals) they think pretty highly of Jimmy.

[Chisoxfn]

Buckets averaged 27/7/7 in games that Rose didn't play in last year. Some of that is inflated by that huge game in Toronto, IIRC.

[Jose Abreu]

Buckets averaged 27/7/7 in games that Rose didn't play in last year. Some of that is inflated by that huge game in Toronto, IIRC.

He dropped 53 in Philly without Rose

[Chisoxfn]

The next thing I expect to hear about is how the Bulls tried to trade Niko and others (along with our pick / other picks) to move up to get Dunn. I don't think anyone will bite, but I certainly think we are going to try and get in some 3 team deal with someone picking in the top 6 spots to try and land our longer term PG. That said, I think the Bulls are more Bullish on Grant than others. Grant did play pretty good when he finally got some action very late in the season for the Knicks.

[Chisoxfn]

Woj's take below (summarized):

 

Woj saying he can't believe how much the Bulls got for Rose. Also thinks Rose will stunt KP's development. Both he and Shams aren't sure Rose understands how much scrutiny he'll get in NYC. Shams also says the tension between Rose and Butler was real and that the FO had to get rid of Rose so Butler can be the leader of the team.

[Steve9347]

Tim Floyd hired from Iowa State to be Bulls coach in 1998 after the Bulls title run. Phil left causing MJ to retire, Bulls trade Pippen, don't sign Rodman. What happens?

 

1998 - lockout year the Bulls go 13-37. The low point of the season came on April 10 in a game against the Miami Heat. In that game, the Bulls scored 49 points to set an NBA record for the fewest points in a game in the shot clock era.

 

1999 - Bulls draft Elton Brand and go 17-65. That summer the Bulls don't get Tim Duncan, Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Eddie Jones, or Tim Thomas. They do get E-Rob and Brad Miller though. Haha. They draft Marcus Fizer and Jamal Crawford

 

2000 - they finish at a then all-time worst of 15-67. Krause shocked the world and traded Brand for the 2nd pick to start the Chandler/Curry era. Floyd was fired . . .

 

2001 - Bulls finish 21-61 tied for last in the league.

 

 

This feels like deja vu all over. Another Bulls regime ruins a nice string of playoff runs by firing one of the leagues best coaches and replacing him with a s***ty coach from Iowa State.

 

2015/2016 - they finish 40-42 and miss the playoffs. D Rose is traded for s*** when letting walk would be more valuable and they likely will trade Butler next.

 

2016-2017 - they will be a laughing stock and bound for a top 3 pick if we are lucky. They will fire Floyd er I mean Hoiberg either this summer or the following year when they realize he is s*** and are tired of answering questions about him.

 

2017-2018 - they will be s*** again

 

The only difference is this time I have less confidence in their ability to turn it around so I think the pain could be here for some time.

 

So in two years we get rid of a great coach who made the playoffs every year, trade Deng for nothing, sign Gasol and lose him for nothing, lose Noah for nothing, trade Rose for pretty much nothing and send a 2nd Rd pick in the deal, and possibly will trade Jimmy below value next.

 

Potential starting lineup:

 

- PG - Calderon/Grant

- SG - Dunleavy (possibly starting at 36 years old)

- SF - Jimmy (or worse -possible they clear Jimmy to start McBuckets)

PF - Nikola

- C - Lopez

 

Yeah that's not a rebuild. For sure a retool. We could have a starting backcourt that's 35 and 36 years old.

 

What's more... Bulls have no shot at a top free agent especially in today's exploding cap environment. That's what makes me have even less hope during this rebuild especially when management is calling it a retool and not a rebuild. They are sending picks out instead of compiling picks. For what? I'm gonna pull my hair out. Unless Conley or Rondo are willing to sign a 1yr for close to $16M when they can get max money elsewhere we should be in full rebuild mode not retool mode. The only thing that should be retooled is the management/coaching staff.

 

I hate you, GarPax. So much.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Steve9347

[Quin]

Jimmy better finish Top 4 in MVP voting this year.

 

The keys to the franchise are his.

[Steve9347]

Jimmy better finish Top 4 in MVP voting this year.

 

The keys to the franchise are his.

That is so not happening.

[Bananarchy]

If the Bulls can be really bad with Jimmy Butler, that would accelerate the rebuild quite a bit. Problem is, they might be middle of the pack bad which is the definition of basketball hell.

[Y2Jimmy0]

If the Bulls can be really bad with Jimmy Butler, that would accelerate the rebuild quite a bit. Problem is, they might be middle of the pack bad which is the definition of basketball hell.

 

 

For sure. Regardless, their next moves should be dumping Dunleavy and Taj though. I'm not a huge Jimmy Butler guy but he is a top 20 player in the league. Maybe even better. The Bulls need a ton to move him. If Boston gave me #3, and another 1st this year with Brooklyn's 2017 pick and Jae Crowder + filler I'd do that. The Bulls can't move him for #3, Crowder and Bradley or a TWolves package without Wiggins though. It's just not enough value.