2016-2017 NBA Thread

[Y2Jimmy0]

The Sixers will make the best deal they can find, of course, but word is Jahlil Okafor's preferred destination on Deadline Day is Chicago.

— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) February 23, 2017

 

 

Oh yeah. #CHAMPIONSHIP

[bmags]

Fully expect to hear after moveless deadline passed: Niko is part of our core

[Steve9347]

Oh yeah. #CHAMPIONSHIP

I doubt the Bulls will land him, but a guy who averaged 18/7 with 1.2 blocks per game at the age of 19 would be about 10x more exciting than anything not named Jimmy on our roster.

 

Ideally, the Bulls pull off a couple of deals today.

 

- 2017, 2018 2nd rounders, Niko, Valentine (is this enough?) for Okafor and whatever contracts

- Jimmy to Boston for BRO 1st 2017, Avery Bradley, and Jaylen Brown

 

Then just f***ing release Wade and let him sign with the Cavaliers, and f***ing release Rondo and let him go live under a bridge somewhere.

 

I need to be productive at work today.

I cannot be productive at work today.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Oh yeah. #CHAMPIONSHIP

I just don't understand your thought process on the Bulls right now. Why would you be opposed to the Bulls acquiring Okafor? I'd take him over anyone on the Bulls roster right now not named Jimmy Butler.

 

In one breath, you want to trade Butler for young guys, and yet when the Bulls have a chance to pick up a young guy with lots of potential, you don't want him. Okafor is like 20 years old and his upside is tremendous.

[soxsoxsoxsox]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 3m3 minutes ago

 

Taj Gibson, Doug McDermott and especially Nikola Mirotic ... Chicago Bulls all in play today on Deadline Day according to league sources.

 

Marc Stein ESPNSteinLine 24m24 minutes ago

 

The Thunder are frequently good for a Deadline Day surprise and league sources say Chicago's Taj Gibson has emerged as an OKC trade target.

 

[Dick Allen]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 3m3 minutes ago

 

Taj Gibson, Doug McDermott and especially Nikola Mirotic ... Chicago Bulls all in play today on Deadline Day according to league sources.

 

Marc Stein ESPNSteinLine 24m24 minutes ago

 

The Thunder are frequently good for a Deadline Day surprise and league sources say Chicago's Taj Gibson has emerged as an OKC trade target.

The earliest 1st round pick the Thunder could trade is in 2022.

[Steve9347]

The earliest 1st round pick the Thunder could trade is in 2022.

Truth, but a rookie like Domantas Sabonis would be intriguing to discuss. Taj would certainly boost their frontcourt where they are currently cycling guys like Sabonis, Jerami Grant, etc.

 

With Kanter coming back, a frontcourt rotation of Adams, Kanter, Gibson, Roberson with Westbrook and Oladipo could give them a fighter's chance to go 6 games in the 1st round.

[Dick Allen]

Truth, but a rookie like Domantas Sabonis would be intriguing to discuss. Taj would certainly boost their frontcourt where they are currently cycling guys like Sabonis, Jerami Grant, etc.

 

With Kanter coming back, a frontcourt rotation of Adams, Kanter, Gibson, Roberson with Westbrook and Oladipo could give them a fighter's chance to go 6 games in the 1st round.

If Sabonis is available for Taj, it has to be made.

[Steve9347]

Bulls have shown no inclination to this point of including 1st rd pick, along w/ player, 76ers have been seeking for Okafor. Niko available.

— K.C. Johnson (@KCJHoop) February 23, 2017

 

 

No surprise here, but it makes you wonder why the Sixers are even bothering with the Bulls.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I just don't understand your thought process on the Bulls right now. Why would you be opposed to the Bulls acquiring Okafor? I'd take him over anyone on the Bulls roster right now not named Jimmy Butler.

 

In one breath, you want to trade Butler for young guys, and yet when the Bulls have a chance to pick up a young guy with lots of potential, you don't want him. Okafor is like 20 years old and his upside is tremendous.

 

 

It's probably going to take a 1st to acquire him. He's not a fit for the modern NBA. It's another guy that doesn't fit the system of the coach you have. He's a terrible defensive player and is unathletic. He can score but he's such a defensive liability that he doesn't really fit what most teams are trying to do. I want them to trade Butler for a nice deal from the Celtics because it's the only thing that makes sense if they truly care about winning titles (which they don't). As a sports fan, I think the point of this whole thing is winning championships. Could they cobble together some pieces around their star and win 50 games? Yes, probably. They can't be a legit contender doing it though which I've stated. Butler is on a cheap deal but they can't add enough around him to compete for championships. And then in 2.5 years he will get a massive deal. They can't add around him fast enough to make it worth it. Trading Jimmy resets the potential championship window. The rookies probably wouldn't be as good as Butler but they are cheaper and offer hope ideally. I understand if you don't trust Paxson and Forman to complete this process but I believe that relying on them to complete the rebuild is still a better option than patching 45 wins teams together and wasting Butler's prime without cashing in that asset. You may disagree but if you do your standard isn't winning championships.

[Kyyle23]

It's probably going to take a 1st to acquire him. He's not a fit for the modern NBA. It's another guy that doesn't fit the system of the coach you have. He's a terrible defensive player and is unathletic. He can score but he's such a defensive liability that he doesn't really fit what most teams are trying to do. I want them to trade Butler for a nice deal from the Celtics because it's the only thing that makes sense if they truly care about winning titles (which they don't). As a sports fan, I think the point of this whole thing is winning championships. Could they cobble together some pieces around their star and win 50 games? Yes, probably. They can't be a legit contender doing it though which I've stated. Butler is on a cheap deal but they can't add enough around him to compete for championships. And then in 2.5 years he will get a massive deal. They can't add around him fast enough to make it worth it. Trading Jimmy resets the potential championship window. The rookies probably wouldn't be as good as Butler but they are cheaper and offer hope ideally. I understand if you don't trust Paxson and Forman to complete this process but I believe that relying on them to complete the rebuild is still a better option than patching 45 wins teams together and wasting Butler's prime without cashing in that asset. You may disagree but if you do your standard isn't winning championships.

 

Categorically untrue

[Y2Jimmy0]

Categorically untrue

 

 

It is true. If you want to keep Jimmy and build around him you may think you "want to win championships" but it's delusion. Jimmy is really good. You need two more players that are really good. I have no idea where those guys are coming from. Generally, the best players in the NBA are taken really high in the draft. That's how you get premium talent. The Bulls have no path to that talent.

[Dick Allen]

It's probably going to take a 1st to acquire him. He's not a fit for the modern NBA. It's another guy that doesn't fit the system of the coach you have. He's a terrible defensive player and is unathletic. He can score but he's such a defensive liability that he doesn't really fit what most teams are trying to do. I want them to trade Butler for a nice deal from the Celtics because it's the only thing that makes sense if they truly care about winning titles (which they don't). As a sports fan, I think the point of this whole thing is winning championships. Could they cobble together some pieces around their star and win 50 games? Yes, probably. They can't be a legit contender doing it though which I've stated. Butler is on a cheap deal but they can't add enough around him to compete for championships. And then in 2.5 years he will get a massive deal. They can't add around him fast enough to make it worth it. Trading Jimmy resets the potential championship window. The rookies probably wouldn't be as good as Butler but they are cheaper and offer hope ideally. I understand if you don't trust Paxson and Forman to complete this process but I believe that relying on them to complete the rebuild is still a better option than patching 45 wins teams together and wasting Butler's prime without cashing in that asset. You may disagree but if you do your standard isn't winning championships.

I actually like that he isn't a modern fit. He gets into the correct situation, and as you pointed out, Hoiberg may not be ideal for him, someone should be able to figure out how to either have him score at will on the post or make teams counter with a big lug to defend him and that could hurt the opposing offense.

 

I wouldn't mind the Bulls trading a 1st rounder for him as long as they protected the s*** out of it.

[Kyyle23]

It is true. If you want to keep Jimmy and build around him you may think you "want to win championships" but it's delusion. Jimmy is really good. You need two more players that are really good. I have no idea where those guys are coming from. Generally, the best players in the NBA are taken really high in the draft. That's how you get premium talent. The Bulls have no path to that talent.

 

Look, i know you believe in your one path theory, its great and all, but it has just as much guarantee as wanting this front office to fail hard and get fired for losing corporate sponsorships due to lack of wins.

 

Take a gander at Gars drafting and trading decisions and free agent over his entire career and tell me you think this "path" is the only way to winning a championship. After you say yes, I will sell you some of Dick Allens oceanfront property in Iowa

[Steve9347]

It is true. If you want to keep Jimmy and build around him you may think you "want to win championships" but it's delusion. Jimmy is really good. You need two more players that are really good. I have no idea where those guys are coming from. Generally, the best players in the NBA are taken really high in the draft. That's how you get premium talent. The Bulls have no path to that talent.

The other way is to construct. The Celtics haven't had a high pick pan out in the past decade, yet here they are again ready to roll.

 

The Lakers will find a way, and it won't involve Ingram. If Magic had been GM 5 days ago, Cousins is in LA and they'd be up to their tricks to add new guys.

 

That said, the Bulls' path is likely through the draft. The biggest FA to ever come here is having a horrific experience while the team entertains casting off the only reason he came. Ideally, Jimmy becomes a reason stars want to come here, but Jimmy will likely wind up being a star on another team as part of some larger group contending for a title. Since the Bulls have missed on basically every pick SINCE Jimmy, they have nothing to deal of substance to build around him.

 

So, what you're left with is completely f***ed. A team that can't seem to hit on any picks either 1- trading its only real asset for MORE picks to potentially screw up or 2- hoping a stud FA finds his way to free agency and comes here.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Look, i know you believe in your one path theory, its great and all, but it has just as much guarantee as wanting this front office to fail hard and get fired for losing corporate sponsorships due to lack of wins.

 

Take a gander at Gars drafting and trading decisions and free agent over his entire career and tell me you think this "path" is the only way to winning a championship. After you say yes, I will sell you some of Dick Allens oceanfront property in Iowa

 

 

You don't have Jimmy as the asset that he is now once that finally happens though. That's the part nobody talks about. Jimmy is 28 and has played heavy minutes. He's also going to need a massive extension in a couple of seasons. The plan I proposed may not work. I've said that. Adding pieces around Jimmy to be a "playoff team" is stupid though and offends me as a sports fan.

[Dick Allen]

You don't have Jimmy as the asset that he is now once that finally happens though. That's the part nobody talks about. Jimmy is 28 and has played heavy minutes. He's also going to need a massive extension in a couple of seasons. The plan I proposed may not work. I've said that. Adding pieces around Jimmy to be a "playoff team" is stupid though and offends me as a sports fan.

There are legit arguments both ways.

Chances are, nothing is going to work. There are probably close to 20 NBA teams that haven't won a title in the last 30 seasons. GarPax have a great piece in Jimmy but really little else, and don't seem to have the acumen, creativity or balls necessary to get what they need.

[Kyyle23]

You don't have Jimmy as the asset that he is now once that finally happens though. That's the part nobody talks about. Jimmy is 28 and has played heavy minutes. He's also going to need a massive extension in a couple of seasons. The plan I proposed may not work. I've said that. Adding pieces around Jimmy to be a "playoff team" is stupid though and offends me as a sports fan.

 

You keep acting like Butler is ready to fall off a cliff and the bulls are operating in his walk year. Money talks, if they swirl down the drain this season like they did last season(and the final Thibs season which was engineered by Gar's power play), it will not go unnoticed. Let it happen. The Bulls can still trade Jimmy this year, next year, and the following season, and the season after that, he is signed until 2020.

 

f*** Gar

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Hard to take an argument seriously when you resort to absolutes.

[southsider2k5]

A great look at Cousins.

 

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/02/20/dema...rleans-pelicans

[illinilaw08]

You keep acting like Butler is ready to fall off a cliff and the bulls are operating in his walk year. Money talks, if they swirl down the drain this season like they did last season(and the final Thibs season which was engineered by Gar's power play), it will not go unnoticed. Let it happen. The Bulls can still trade Jimmy this year, next year, and the following season, and the season after that, he is signed until 2020.

 

f*** Gar

 

I think that if the Bulls are interested in moving Butler, they will never see a better package than Boston could offer now. Brown + Brooklyn 17 + Bradley (if that was on the table) would give the Bulls a pretty big head start on the rebuild. Most contenders aren't sitting on a surplus of top 3 picks that they can move for your star.

 

The alternative is what is the path to winning with Butler? They will need to either hit on some mid-teens picks or do some exceptional work in FA (either through the big name FA signings or finding value in other team's castoffs). But if the Bulls are not a top 3 seed in the East by 2020, I will be shocked if Butler re-signs.

 

Obviously, if the Celtics don't make a move, this can all be re-visited again in the offseason. And I completely understand the lack of trust and faith in GarPax to take on a rebuild. But if the Bulls spend the next 3+ years as a .500 team in the East squeaking into the playoffs, they will set themselves back another half decade.

[Kyyle23]

I think that if the Bulls are interested in moving Butler, they will never see a better package than Boston could offer now. Brown + Brooklyn 17 + Bradley (if that was on the table) would give the Bulls a pretty big head start on the rebuild. Most contenders aren't sitting on a surplus of top 3 picks that they can move for your star.

 

The alternative is what is the path to winning with Butler? They will need to either hit on some mid-teens picks or do some exceptional work in FA (either through the big name FA signings or finding value in other team's castoffs). But if the Bulls are not a top 3 seed in the East by 2020, I will be shocked if Butler re-signs.

 

Obviously, if the Celtics don't make a move, this can all be re-visited again in the offseason. And I completely understand the lack of trust and faith in GarPax to take on a rebuild. But if the Bulls spend the next 3+ years as a .500 team in the East squeaking into the playoffs, they will set themselves back another half decade.

 

I am not going to continue to reiterate my distrust of Garpax(as I reiterate my distrust of Garpax lol)

 

Making that trade locks Garpax in for the foreseeable future to see through the rebuild. That, to me, is unconscionable (sp?)

[ChiSoxFanMike]

It's probably going to take a 1st to acquire him. He's not a fit for the modern NBA. It's another guy that doesn't fit the system of the coach you have. He's a terrible defensive player and is unathletic. He can score but he's such a defensive liability that he doesn't really fit what most teams are trying to do. I want them to trade Butler for a nice deal from the Celtics because it's the only thing that makes sense if they truly care about winning titles (which they don't). As a sports fan, I think the point of this whole thing is winning championships. Could they cobble together some pieces around their star and win 50 games? Yes, probably. They can't be a legit contender doing it though which I've stated. Butler is on a cheap deal but they can't add enough around him to compete for championships. And then in 2.5 years he will get a massive deal. They can't add around him fast enough to make it worth it. Trading Jimmy resets the potential championship window. The rookies probably wouldn't be as good as Butler but they are cheaper and offer hope ideally. I understand if you don't trust Paxson and Forman to complete this process but I believe that relying on them to complete the rebuild is still a better option than patching 45 wins teams together and wasting Butler's prime without cashing in that asset. You may disagree but if you do your standard isn't winning championships.

I'm sorry but I still disagree. It doesn't matter whether he's a "fit" or not. The Bulls are so deprived of talent that they need to jump at the opportunity to acquire as much upside as possible, even if said player doesn't fit on paper. Okafor's a gifted scorer; that's harder to teach than defense. And he's so young that there's definitely room for improvement under the right coaching. By no means am I calling him a future All Star, but I definitely believe that he could be a productive player and a second option to Butler on a contender.

 

I'd much rather add a player like him and then a Gordon Hayward type than tearing it all down. Rebuilds just don't work as well in the NBA as they do in MLB.

[illinilaw08]

I am not going to continue to reiterate my distrust of Garpax(as I reiterate my distrust of Garpax lol)

 

Making that trade locks Garpax in for the foreseeable future to see through the rebuild. That, to me, is unconscionable (sp?)

 

I honestly don't disagree with you on GarPax.

 

Best case scenario is that the Bulls sit tight at the deadline. So does Boston.

 

The Bulls are brutal down the stretch. GarPax gets fired.

 

Boston loses in like 6 to Cleveland in the Conference Finals.

 

Boston gives up the Brooklyn pick + Bradley + Brown package for Butler in the offseason under a new front office.

[Kyyle23]

I honestly don't disagree with you on GarPax.

 

Best case scenario is that the Bulls sit tight at the deadline. So does Boston.

 

The Bulls are brutal down the stretch. GarPax gets fired.

 

Boston loses in like 6 to Cleveland in the Conference Finals.

 

Boston gives up the Brooklyn pick + Bradley + Brown package for Butler in the offseason under a new front office.

 

^^^^this is the preferred alternate path^^^^