RockRaines Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:34 PM) This is way over simplified. To me there is an obvious difference in player development abilities when you look around the NBA. What is it that the Spurs are able to do with guys drafted at the end of the first round, that a team like the Kings can't do with lottery pick after lottery pick? Thibs is another one who took some guys who had no business being good NBA players and turning them into one. Look at Jimmy Butler. Look at Taj. A lot of that is the system as well though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:19 PM) He's simply awful whenever I watch. Have always hated his demeanor as well since college I remember being at a game where he choked against SEMO, had the chance to win the game with free throws and missed. Can't stand the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:34 PM) This is way over simplified. To me there is an obvious difference in player development abilities when you look around the NBA. What is it that the Spurs are able to do with guys drafted at the end of the first round, that a team like the Kings can't do with lottery pick after lottery pick? Thibs is another one who took some guys who had no business being good NBA players and turning them into one. Look at Jimmy Butler. Look at Taj. Taj isn't really a great example. He was a solid player from basically day 1 in the NBA. His improvement in the NBA wasn't very impressive actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Tony @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:36 PM) But similar to a baseball manager, it's about putting your players in a position to succeed. The easy question is: If the Bulls had Fred Hoiberg as coach of the Bulls the last six season, is Jimmy who he is now? I honestly don't know the answer, but if I feel like Thibs had something to do with it (certainly not all of it, but more of an impact that Fred would have). I would put money that if Hoiberg had been Jimmy's coach his first five years in the league, Jimmy Butler wouldn't be in the NBA right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 https://twitter.com/bulls_jay/status/834867249232109568 Don't click on this link if you wanted the Nets picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:37 PM) I would put money that if Hoiberg had been Jimmy's coach his first five years in the league, Jimmy Butler wouldn't be in the NBA right now. Disagree. Butler was oddly used at Marquette so he had real potential to blow up in the NBA. Also Butler credit's Buzz Williams for his work ethic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:49 PM) https://twitter.com/bulls_jay/status/834867249232109568 Don't click on this link if you wanted the Nets picks If thats true than they didnt want to trade Butler because there really isnt even anything on the Celtics roster worth more than those 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:49 PM) https://twitter.com/bulls_jay/status/834867249232109568 Don't click on this link if you wanted the Nets picks That post and this organization are NAUSEATING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Jimmy has gotten better the 2 years Fred has been here as well. So once Fred got here that's when Jimmy started getting better on his own? Gage said yesterday that Niko has gotten better defensively so I guess that's on his own too. Marquis Teague was just the front office's fault I guess, not Thibs. I don't know, just seems like an easy way to blame Fred for player development. Like I said, if you think he's a bad coach then fine, I'm just not sure lack of player development is an actual thing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:50 PM) If thats true than they didnt want to trade Butler because there really isnt even anything on the Celtics roster worth more than those 2. No chance in hell I trade Butler for 2 picks only. That's insane. Give up a starting All-Star in his prime for 2 POTENTIAL players. Hard, hard, pass. This was your typical Bulls FO bulls*** non-move. Stay good enough to sell tickets but not good enough to compete, keep options open for some miracle that a max FA can be signed. Edited February 23, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:57 PM) No chance in hell I trade Butler for 2 picks only. That's insane. Give up a starting All-Star in his prime for 2 POTENTIAL players. Hard, hard, pass. This was your typical Bulls FO bulls*** non-move. Stay good enough to sell tickets but not good enough to compete, keep options open for some miracle that a max FA can be signed. You would be getting two top 4 picks. I'd do that without thinking twice. Butler is great but this franchise isn't winning a f***ing thing with him and you aren't getting more value than two top 4 picks for him. You certainly are better off doing that then acquiring the mediocre players that you usually accompany such a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:57 PM) No chance in hell I trade Butler for 2 picks only. That's insane. Give up a starting All-Star in his prime for 2 POTENTIAL players. Hard, hard, pass. This was your typical Bulls FO bulls*** non-move. Stay good enough to sell tickets but not good enough to compete, keep options open for some miracle that a max FA can be signed. I didnt say "only" but if those 2 picks were on the table and the Bulls said no, there is unlikely no offer out there that can get Butler. Obviously lottery makes things harder, but those 2 picks are likely at worst 2 top 5, and possibly both would turn out into top 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:00 PM) You would be getting two top 4 picks. I'd do that without thinking twice. Butler is great but this franchise isn't winning a f***ing thing with him and you aren't getting more value than two top 4 picks for him. You certainly are better off doing that then acquiring the mediocre players that you usually accompany such a deal. Preach. The Nets are an atrocity. Two potential top 3 picks+ for Butler? GMAB. That's full speed ahead with a legitimate front-office in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:00 PM) You would be getting two top 4 picks. I'd do that without thinking twice. Butler is great but this franchise isn't winning a f***ing thing with him and you aren't getting more value than two top 4 picks for him. You certainly are better off doing that then acquiring the mediocre players that you usually accompany such a deal. Again, you're trading a proven, starting All-Star. He's a top 10-12 player in the league on an insanely cheap contract for a few more seasons. It would be criminal for the Bulls to get rid of him for 2 draft picks, even if they are 1-4. There are no assurances those top picks will pan out. http://www.nba.com/history/draft/all-time-...ry-draft-picks/ (edit: sorry, this is the right link) Go look back at the top 5 picks. There are far too many busts for my liking in there. I think best case you get one guy that comes close to Butler's level and the other would be just an average NBA player....4-5 seasons from now. Not nearly enough. Edited February 23, 2017 by JenksIsMyHero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Vincent GoodwillVerified account@vgoodwill 57m57 minutes ago Bulls offered Taj and Canaan for Pat Beverley yesterday, Houston turned them down. So eyes turned to OKC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:05 PM) Preach. The Nets are an atrocity. Two potential top 3 picks+ for Butler? GMAB. That's full speed ahead with a legitimate front-office in place. This. But nah, half ass the tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:00 PM) You would be getting two top 4 picks. I'd do that without thinking twice. Butler is great but this franchise isn't winning a f***ing thing with him and you aren't getting more value than two top 4 picks for him. You certainly are better off doing that then acquiring the mediocre players that you usually accompany such a deal. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 02:57 PM) No chance in hell I trade Butler for 2 picks only. That's insane. Give up a starting All-Star in his prime for 2 POTENTIAL players. Hard, hard, pass. This was your typical Bulls FO bulls*** non-move. Stay good enough to sell tickets but not good enough to compete, keep options open for some miracle that a max FA can be signed. It couldn't have been just for two top picks. Salary cap restrictions wouldn't have allowed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) It couldn't have been just for two top picks. Salary cap restrictions wouldn't have allowed it. Of course. You would take back whatever crap you had to from the Celtics actual roster to make it work. I just can't believe they offered up both though. Edited February 23, 2017 by Jordan4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 f***ing idiots. We made a trade for the sake of making a trade. All 3 guys we got back are bench players, not very good ones at that. I have zero faith we could develop Payne into a starter level PG. I also hate throwing away second round picks in this day and age. There are plenty of hidden gems overseas that aren't drafted in the first round because teams want to play it safe, but gets drafted in second round and develops into nice players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:10 PM) This. But nah, half ass the tank One of Ball/Fultz/Smith and possibly DeAndre Ayton in '18? Yeah, you would need some lottery luck but I'd take that chance all day, everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 f***ing idiots part#2. We've been targeting Okafor all along when it costed peanuts to get a deal done for Noel. The fact that this team failed to see who the better and more valuable player is going forward, shame on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:10 PM) Again, you're trading a proven, starting All-Star. He's a top 10-12 player in the league on an insanely cheap contract for a few more seasons. It would be criminal for the Bulls to get rid of him for 2 draft picks, even if they are 1-4. There are no assurances those top picks will pan out. http://www.nba.com/history/draft/all-time-...ry-draft-picks/ (edit: sorry, this is the right link) Go look back at the top 5 picks. There are far too many busts for my liking in there. I think best case you get one guy that comes close to Butler's level and the other would be just an average NBA player....4-5 seasons from now. Not nearly enough. Are you still going to be arguing this same position at this time next year or the year after? Because we're going to be in virtually the same position. You can argue your trade values all you want but holding onto Jimmy just because you have a perceived value on him that nobody can reach is the way to keep the Bulls where they are. Nobody is guaranteeing anything with these picks(though a lot of us certainly love some of these players) but eventually you have to take a chance because I do guarantee you they wont be a championship contender with Jimmy in his 'prime' here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 04:17 PM) One of Ball/Fultz/Smith and possibly DeAndre Ayton in '18? Yeah, you would need some lottery luck but I'd take that chance all day, everyday. You would likely have two top 5 picks in 2018 as well since the Bulls would be terrible next year without Butler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 03:17 PM) One of Ball/Fultz/Smith and possibly DeAndre Ayton in '18? Yeah, you would need some lottery luck but I'd take that chance all day, everyday. Not to mention the Bulls would likely have another top 7ish pick of their own next year on top of it. ^ beat me to it Edited February 23, 2017 by Boogua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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