Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:35 AM) Get this garbage out of here. Butler is the superior player, period. Not even a discussion. Add in the fact that Jimmy is under contract for longer and on a freaking value deal and it weighs even further to why Boston would prefer Butler. Butler has a 25 PER this year (coming off a season just above 20) while George is at 18. That is a huge difference. Not even close and Butlers last couple years PER's have been better then George's. It isn't like he's an outlier. Butler also has been healthier in his career. I like Paul George and would want him on my team but right now, Jimmy Butler >>> Paul George...factor in contract and the gap widens even more. He asked who the better fit was. Not the better player. As Boogs said, George is much better off the ball and a better shooter. Front offices look at stuff like that. I'm pretty sure Danny Ainge isn't saying to himself "Yes, we want Butler over George because he has a higher PER!!!". They're both high-level two-way players. But nobody outside of a Bulls fan has Butler >>> George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:38 AM) What time is the deadline? 2PM central Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:33 AM) Butler is one of the ultimate defenders in basketball. He will take that team to another level on the D end of the floor. Its really a no brainer. Butler is superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzfest Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:38 AM) What time is the deadline? 2PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I think most people would agree that Butler is better than George at this point, but Butler is a ball stopping ISO player, which doesn't fit great with Thomas being a superstar this year. There could also potentially be ego issues where Butler goes there and has problems playing alongside Thomas like he did with Rose (although rose was garbage the past few years). The contract stuff is a very valid point and should make Butler a lot more pricey than George. You can argue that you just run 1/3 pick and rolls all the time or have them take turns going ISO like Irving and Lebron did in the finals last year I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Some reports out there that Boston's strategy / mo is to leak a ton of fake rumors about talks with teams and multiple players as a tact to potentially create controversy on the other team and potentially create a scenario where a team ends up moving on a player because the player gets upset and it ultimately drives the price down. For example, maybe Jimmy just gets sick of consistently hearing this reports and feeling like they are not all-in on them and goes to the front office and basically says I want out (even if the Bulls never had the discussions). A couple reports indicating that there is a widespread belief that the Bulls have had zero desire to move Butler but that Butler is getting annoyed. Momo Shelbourne has consistently said from her sources within the Bulls that they have had zero desire to move Jimmy and that all of the activity has been based on other teams calling and the Bulls rebuffing. She also has mentioned multiple times on the radio (out in LA) that other front office people imply that the Bulls would be nuts to trade Jimmy and that they should be building around him given the contract, etc (and that is ultimately what they believe the Bulls will do). She did say that there is no clear direction from the organization as no one in the front office has been aligned (albeit that last piece was based upon old information more dating back to the off-season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 09:40 AM) He asked who the better fit was. Not the better player. As Boogs said, George is much better off the ball and a better shooter. Front offices look at stuff like that. I'm pretty sure Danny Ainge isn't saying to himself "Yes, we want Butler over George because he has a higher PER!!!". They're both high-level two-way players. But nobody outside of a Bulls fan has Butler >>> George. OMG...in no world is Paul George > Jimmy Butler as a basketball player. Fit wise...the Pacers could use a guy who can score down low like Jimmy. Celtics have plenty of shooters. Every analytic out there says that Butler is superior...the eyes say is superior too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Boogua @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 09:41 AM) I think most people would agree that Butler is better than George at this point, but Butler is a ball stopping ISO player, which doesn't fit great with Thomas being a superstar this year. There could also potentially be ego issues where Butler goes there and has problems playing alongside Thomas like he did with Rose (although rose was garbage the past few years). The contract stuff is a very valid point and should make Butler a lot more pricey than George. You can argue that you just run 1/3 pick and rolls all the time or have them take turns going ISO like Irving and Lebron did in the finals last year I guess. Let me make something clear...if Butler goes to the Celtics...he immediately becomes there best player. Immediately. Isiah has had an amazing season and is a ridiculous score but Jimmy is better and makes them a far more legitimate team. If I were Boston, I'd have added Jimmy & Cousins and to be honest...they could have done that with the assets they have. They will go nowhere with Isiah as their best player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:43 AM) OMG...in no world is Paul George > Jimmy Butler as a basketball player. Fit wise...the Pacers could use a guy who can score down low like Jimmy. Celtics have plenty of shooters. Every analytic out there says that Butler is superior...the eyes say is superior too. Dude, are you reading what I'm typing? I didn't say George was better. I can get with Butler being better, at least this year. But you're acting like the difference between the two is like the difference between KD and Melo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 09:48 AM) Dude, are you reading what I'm typing? I didn't say George was better. I can get with Butler being better, at least this year. But you're acting like the difference between the two is like the difference between KD and Melo. This year...the difference between the two players is pretty significant. Butler is playing fantastically efficient basketball and obviously is a strong defender. Paul George is a good/above average player...Jimmy Butler is a great player. I also think Butler is a better fit for Boston...but I think Boston needs multiple pieces if they want to have any chance at winning a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:48 AM) Dude, are you reading what I'm typing? I didn't say George was better. I can get with Butler being better, at least this year. But you're acting like the difference between the two is like the difference between KD and Melo. Are you reading what you're typing? "But nobody outside of a Bulls fan has Butler >>> George" -J4L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 09:51 AM) Are you reading what your typing? "But nobody outside of a Bulls fan has Butler >>> George" -J4L Yes...Jordan...that is why I responded the way I did...it was because you finished with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I wonder if that rumored fan protest in March will really hype up if Gar does little or nothing today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzfest Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:53 AM) I wonder if that rumored fan protest in March will really hype up if Gar does little or nothing today. Most definitely will. But they will probably move Taj or Niko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:45 AM) Let me make something clear...if Butler goes to the Celtics...he immediately becomes there best player. Immediately. Isiah has had an amazing season and is a ridiculous score but Jimmy is better and makes them a far more legitimate team. If I were Boston, I'd have added Jimmy & Cousins and to be honest...they could have done that with the assets they have. They will go nowhere with Isiah as their best player. Yes, because he is a plus plus defender while Thomas is awful on defense. Thomas is averaging 30 per game on like a 63% TS%. That's insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 If I were running the Bulls...I'd pull Wade and Butler in (and would have already done it) and said that our plan is to build for next year. We want to make the playoffs this year, but the main focus is building and improving our team next year. We will have cap room, etc, and at the deadline, we are going to move pieces, pieces who will help us now, but who are not part of our long-term plans and we want you to be aware of this. Basically so you can read where they stand. From there, I would then move a ton of guys for a combination of assets/cap room. I'd imply that going forward, we will work to give other young players more minutes to see who will be part of next years plans, etc., while trying to still compete but get much more athletic in the near-to-mid term. The reason I'd include Wade is to the extent he wasn't interested, I'd move him. If Jimmy was irate at the plan, I'd then potentially pivot and move him and go full blown rebuild. I would not be soliciting their insight but I do believe that if you are going to build around Jimmy, you should at least have him somewhat informed as to what the overall strategy is (maybe that is a bad idea). If the Bulls don't make a move, I will be beyond disgusted. Between Taj & Niko, you have to get something back, given they are going to walk and we clearly aren't winning a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 11:52 AM) Yes...Jordan...that is why I responded the way I did...it was because you finished with this. No, if you say Butler > George. Fine. You said Butler >>> George. That's a big difference. Look, Paul George is 26 years old and took that juggernaut Heat team from a few years ago to 7 games. Do the Celtics need to pony up if they want Butler? Yes. But you're kidding yourself if you think he commands that much more than what Paul George does based off of the fact he's been better for 50 something games or whatever this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 When the 76ers don't get the mavs 1st rounder this year, it turns into a 2017 and 2018 second round pick. What a bad deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 09:57 AM) No, if you say Butler > George. Fine. You said Butler >>> George. That's a big difference. Look, Paul George is 26 years old and took that juggernaut Heat team from a few years ago to 7 games. Do the Celtics need to pony up if they want Butler? Yes. But you're kidding yourself if you think he commands that much more than what Paul George does based off of the fact he's been better for 50 something games or whatever this year. Except for the fact that Paul George did that before his leg exploded. Should I cite Derrick Rose's pre ACL performance as to why he is better then Damian Lillard? Since that injury, Paul George has not had the same upside. He is still good, but not the same player he could have been (before that injury...yes I'd have taken PG over Jimmy Butler...at that time). Things change, Jimmy Butler has been ascending the past couple of years and was better then Paul George each of the past two years too, so no it is not based on one year. This year he has been significantly better (as Butler has taken another step forward). And like I mentioned, Paul George is due to be a FA in a rising cap and will be far pricey then Jimmy Butler who is signed to a freaking "sweetheart" deal. In fact, Butler and Isiah's deals are two of the better contracts in the association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (ozzfest @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 09:54 AM) Most definitely will. But they will probably move Taj or Niko. The protest will do nothing to the Bulls. They sell out and make money...no protest, outside of empty arenas because of consistent poor play, will truly impact/force Reinsdorf's hand. Nor should it (to be honest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 12:58 PM) When the 76ers don't get the mavs 1st rounder this year, it turns into a 2017 and 2018 second round pick. What a bad deal. That is just horrendous. I don't buy for a second that the best they could do was 2 2nd round picks and Justin Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Was there a chance the Bulls could have gotten Noel and Cousins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 12:00 PM) Except for the fact that Paul George did that before his leg exploded. Should I cite Derrick Rose's pre ACL performance as to why he is better then Damian Lillard? Since that injury, Paul George has not had the same upside. He is still good, but not the same player he could have been (before that injury...yes I'd have taken PG over Jimmy Butler...at that time). Things change, Jimmy Butler has been ascending the past couple of years and was better then Paul George each of the past two years too, so no it is not based on one year. This year he has been significantly better (as Butler has taken another step forward). And like I mentioned, Paul George is due to be a FA in a rising cap and will be far pricey then Jimmy Butler who is signed to a freaking "sweetheart" deal. In fact, Butler and Isiah's deals are two of the better contracts in the association. And I guess you missed last year's playoffs when George put it on the Raptors to the tune of 27/7.6/4.3/2.0 and nearly 3 3-point makes per game. Butler's playoff stats last year? Oh that's right. He wasn't there. Butler is a stud. You don't have to minimize George to make him look better. And George is signed through next season btw. I don't know why you keep bringing up his FA as if he's a FA this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I get the feeling George to Boston is close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA 20s21 seconds ago More Sources: Less than two hours until the NBA Trade Deadline, but no significant traction for Boston on Jimmy Butler or Paul George deals. Yet. Its not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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