2016-2017 NBA Thread

[Chi Town Sox]

I slept on this over night before coming to this decision before seeing any other potential moves and seeing them play together.

 

Rose has been hesitant due to injuries the past few years. Hardly gets to the line anymore, Bulls were one of the worst in the league getting to the line around 21 times a game last year, no playoffs. The year prior, they were one of the best in the league at getting to the line, playoffs. Butler and Wade alone will get to the line 15 times. Even with the changes in the NBA, slashing will always be effective in the way of tiring the defense and getting open looks for shooters and slowing down fast paced teams. This is where Doug and Niko really need to step up which remains to be seen. How Rondo fits in (maybe transition?), I do not know. But I do know that Wade will be on his ass if he isn't helping the squad. This isn't going to be a title team but even at this age, Wade is tight with every star in the league and could help nab someone even if we don't think so, Friends want to play with friends. We were in NBA hell even before the Wade signing, not bad enough to be a lottery team IMO, this doesn't hurt.

[ZoomSlowik]

So who's #2 now behind the Cavs?

 

1. Cavs

2. Celtics

3. Raptors

4. Knicks

5. Pistons

6. Bulls

7. Pacers

8. Wizards

 

Everyone else?

 

I would say Celtics 2, they were basically 3rd last year and added Horford. Not a great team, but solid and have room to grow with 2 more Nets picks and cap space (haven't seen new #'s, but they basically have Al and

 

Raptors 3 by default. Don't see a big reason they should slide, but they're also too flawed to get better.

 

The rest is a clusterf*** down to the Nets/Sixers tier (and maybe Orlando, not really sure what their plan is).

[Quin]

I doubt the mutual second year option for Rondo is in the Bulls' future plans. I would expect that Rondo walks in order to make room for two max contracts

 

That's why I said if that fails. Wade will know if it's gonna happen before Rondo has to become a FA.

[shipps]

I am really late to the party but I will say at the very least, especially initially, the Bulls team will be interesting to watch. That may fade in few weeks into the season when it doesnt work and Fredberg has done his latest bad impression of an NBA coach...but maybe they will gel. Maybe Wade brings a confidence to a team that had none whatsoever last year. Without Wade there is no question this would have been another train wreck of a season next year. We wouldn't have had any confidence for the future in FA's coming to the Bulls anyways. Now there is at least some hope that Wade has killed that stigma the Bulls have had following them which he ironically played a huge role in creating. '

 

Other than the Bulls outside shooting my biggest concern is Fredberg. The team has enough talent to be decent in the East for a couple years and roll the dice with a new found confidence of bringing in a big FA but if Fred cant figure it out they are f***ed. This dude is here for at least another three years.

[Boogua]

I would say Celtics 2, they were basically 3rd last year and added Horford. Not a great team, but solid and have room to grow with 2 more Nets picks and cap space (haven't seen new #'s, but they basically have Al and

 

Raptors 3 by default. Don't see a big reason they should slide, but they're also too flawed to get better.

 

The rest is a clusterf*** down to the Nets/Sixers tier (and maybe Orlando, not really sure what their plan is).

I think the Celtics will finish second also. I also think they're going to go hard after a Westbrook trade. They have a ton of assets.

[Chi Town Sox]

It's gonna be hilarious watching teams pack the paint against this team.

 

Luckily, they now have two of the better slashers in the league. Doug and Niko need to be ready from beyond the arc this year.

[Chi Town Sox]

I am really late to the party but I will say at the very least, especially initially, the Bulls team will be interesting to watch. That may fade in few weeks into the season when it doesnt work and Fredberg has done his latest bad impression of an NBA coach...but maybe they will gel. Maybe Wade brings a confidence to a team that had none whatsoever last year. Without Wade there is no question this would have been another train wreck of a season next year. We wouldn't have had any confidence for the future in FA's coming to the Bulls anyways. Now there is at least some hope that Wade has killed that stigma the Bulls have had following them which he ironically played a huge role in creating. '

 

Other than the Bulls outside shooting my biggest concern is Fredberg. The team has enough talent to be decent in the East for a couple years and roll the dice with a new found confidence of bringing in a big FA but if Fred cant figure it out they are f***ed. This dude is here for at least another three years.

 

It is interesting to see Wade believed in him enough to sign here. I can't imagine he would come here if he hated the coach.

[ZoomSlowik]

By the way: the two max deals dream needs to die. They just updated the projection to $102 mil next year. Butler+Lopez is about 32 and a first year max will be high-20's to 30. That would be 85-90-ish, and then you just gave a geezer 2-48, Rondo needs to be off the books, and there's 9 more roster spots with holds. The math just doesn't work.

Edited July 7, 2016 by ZoomSlowik

[southsider2k5]

Ethan J. Skolnick @EthanJSkolnick

While you're watching Kelly Ripa, one more nugget: Pat Riley never called Dwyane Wade during the entire process.

 

[Chisoxfn]

By the way: the two max deals dream needs to die. They just updated the projection to $102 mil next year. Butler+Lopez is just over 30 and a first year max will be close to 30. That would be 90-ish, and then you just gave a geezer 2-48, Rondo needs to be off the books, and there's 9 more roster spots with holds. The math just doesn't work.

The math absolutely worked prior to the updated projection. The question is what will the projection ultimately be. Rondo will be gone in the two max scenario deal and we'd renounce the right. I do agree the cap reduction leaves us a bit short. I had posted the numbers based upon the old projection yesterday and they absolutely worked.

[Chisoxfn]

By the way: the two max deals dream needs to die. They just updated the projection to $102 mil next year. Butler+Lopez is just over 30 and a first year max will be close to 30. That would be 90-ish, and then you just gave a geezer 2-48, Rondo needs to be off the books, and there's 9 more roster spots with holds. The math just doesn't work.

But I'll live with a real max guy plus a really good player too.

[shipps]

The math absolutely worked prior to the updated projection. The question is what will the projection ultimately be. Rondo will be gone in the two max scenario deal and we'd renounce the right. I do agree the cap reduction leaves us a bit short. I had posted the numbers based upon the old projection yesterday and they absolutely worked.

 

Plus the two max deal idea is based upon a couple of stars deciding they were going to make it work to come here to form some sort of super team anyways. Everyone has to play the game of setting themselves up for that to at least be a possibility if they aren't already close to or are a super team. All the rest are just providing regular season entertainment and semi competitive playoff series for the super teams to practice on until they play each other.

[shipps]

Ethan J. Skolnick @EthanJSkolnick

While you're watching Kelly Ripa, one more nugget: Pat Riley never called Dwyane Wade during the entire process.

 

Pat Riley is a son of a b**** isnt he? LOL

[Chisoxfn]

I think Chris Paul will be one of the players we sign next year.

[2nd_city_saint787]

So what is "Hoiball?"

 

For a week or so ive been hearing Fred wants to run a downhill, free flowing, aggressive offense. Then people make it seem like "Hoiball" is a heavy 3 point shooting team. Those seem like 2 different things. Which is it? Is the downhill thing I keep hearing new?

[Kyyle23]

So what is "Hoiball?"

 

For a week or so ive been hearing Fred wants to run a downhill, free flowing, aggressive offense. Then people make it seem like "Hoiball" is a heavy 3 point shooting team. Those seem like 2 different things. Which is it? Is the downhill thing I keep hearing new?

 

Hoiball is what Jimmy, Wade, and Rondo decide its gonna be

[ZoomSlowik]

The math absolutely worked prior to the updated projection. The question is what will the projection ultimately be. Rondo will be gone in the two max scenario deal and we'd renounce the right. I do agree the cap reduction leaves us a bit short. I had posted the numbers based upon the old projection yesterday and they absolutely worked.

 

The old projection was only 107, so I don't see how.

 

[Chisoxfn]

The old projection was only 107, so I don't see how.

They have $50.9M on the books for next year (Wade / Butler / Lopez / Doug / Snell / Jerian Grant / Bobby Portis / Valentine). Cap at 107 would give you 56.1M in available cap space. Two max guys FA's with 7-9 years of experience are projected to cost approximately 28.8M each). So under the previous regime, if we essentially moved Snell, we would have had the room (including draft holds / roster holds). Felicio is someone we could get minimal cap stuff for as is Dinwiddie.

 

Basically under the old scenario it was totally doable, without any major sacrifices. Under the new cap, where we are down 5M, the reality is, the way to do it would be either by moving Lopez or by getting existing players or the FA's to take slightly less than max money (or essentially dump everyone but Wade / Lopez / Butler (which is possible). Wade could opt out and sign for slightly less (but Bulls could add another year to make it worth Wade's while). Bottom line, if guys wanted to come here, they could make it work. Or we get one max guy and one guy damn near max money while keeping Wade.

[whitesoxfan99]

They have $50.9M on the books for next year (Wade / Butler / Lopez / Doug / Snell / Jerian Grant / Bobby Portis / Valentine). Cap at 107 would give you 56.1M in available cap space. Two max guys FA's with 7-9 years of experience are projected to cost approximately 28.8M each). So under the previous regime, if we essentially moved Snell, we would have had the room (including draft holds / roster holds). Felicio is someone we could get minimal cap stuff for as is Dinwiddie.

 

Basically under the old scenario it was totally doable, without any major sacrifices. Under the new cap, where we are down 5M, the reality is, the way to do it would be either by moving Lopez or by getting existing players or the FA's to take slightly less than max money (or essentially dump everyone but Wade / Lopez / Butler (which is possible). Wade could opt out and sign for slightly less (but Bulls could add another year to make it worth Wade's while). Bottom line, if guys wanted to come here, they could make it work. Or we get one max guy and one guy damn near max money while keeping Wade.

Your math on what is on the books is way off. Wade, Butler and Lopez's contracts alone are higher than that.

[bmags]

So what is "Hoiball?"

 

For a week or so ive been hearing Fred wants to run a downhill, free flowing, aggressive offense. Then people make it seem like "Hoiball" is a heavy 3 point shooting team. Those seem like 2 different things. Which is it? Is the downhill thing I keep hearing new?

 

Downhill and freeflowing often require space. Why people are critical of Rondo/Wade/Jimmy is that all 3 require ball in their hands for much of the possession (Rondo has an insanely high usage rate) and neither are good shooters (Rondo/Wade). And while Rondo can make some nice long outlet passes he is not a fast pace guy. He slows thing down and waits for a pass.

 

I am excited at possibilities of Wade showing Mirotic how to flop.

[ZoomSlowik]

Let me do this another way...

 

Butler/Lopez/Wade is in the high-50's depending how Wade's deal breaks down. Call it 55 even though that's probably a few mil low.

 

First year max will probably end up around 30. It 27/28 this year. Someone older like Paul would be higher.

 

So you're at 85 (or more) for 4 players. That's only about 17 for the rest of the roster. It's probably closer to 10 between rookie deal guys and cap holds. So we can add someone like Matthew Dellavedova!

[Chisoxfn]

Let me ask a hypothetical. A year from now, if the Bulls sign Chris Paul (and only Chris Paul) and lets just say Blake Griffin...what do people think of a Paul / Wade / Butler / Griffin / Lopez, lineup? Pretty much everyone on that roster is capable of playing D and scoring. You have some older guys, but also youth and coming off the bench you have essentially our home-grown picks?

 

If you asked us a month ago, if that would even be possible, I think everyone would have said no chance, but I'd say that is a pretty darn solid team (both offensively and defensively). Yes, spacing may not be the best (Butler would need to improve his 3 point shot, but Paul is a good three point shooter), but it should be able to play with pace and play quality defense with a potentially solid bench (depending on how Portis / Doug / Valentine / Grant / others emerge). Is it a guaranteed champion, no, but its a legit top 5 NBA roster.

[ZoomSlowik]

Your math on what is on the books is way off. Wade, Butler and Lopez's contracts alone are higher than that.

 

This. Butler/Lopez is 32, plus another 20-something for Wade (probably like 26 to fit him in this year).

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Who are the two max guys they are going to get though? The only max-type guys available next year are Paul, Griffin, Westbrook and Antetokounmpo. And it seems odd that Rondo just pursued and recruited Wade only to be replaced a year later by Paul.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Your math on what is on the books is way off. Wade, Butler and Lopez's contracts alone are higher than that.

My fault...damn hoops hype must not have been summing up the option years for hte other guys. So yes, it would be doable, but you'd have a ton of no namers. Still that is assuming that all those stars can't agree on a few M per year less amongst themselves.